Confirmed with Link: NYR agree 2 year extension with Zac Jones

[nyr2k2]

I think those of you talking about how size isn't or shouldn't be an issue are somewhat missing the point. Size doesn't have to be an issue but it often is. If Jones were a couple inches taller or 20 pounds stronger then that would likely mitigate some of his shortcomings. But he's not a couple inches taller or 20 pounds heavier so he's going to be completely reliant on his puck moving ability to be successful. Can he pull it off? Sure, other players have, others will. I don't think the argument is that he can't be successful because he's a smaller player, it's that by being a smaller (and honestly, much weaker) player it makes it more difficult for him to succeed.

All the talk of "if size was the only thing that mattered then (insert shitty failed player) would be a star" is sidestepping the actual discussion about what Jones can and cannot do.

I don't think it's a coincidence that many of us who watched a lot of Hartford games and regularly provided our opinions of players are the same ones urging caution on Jones, because we all saw his issues last year against lesser competition than what he'll be facing in the NHL.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I think those of you talking about how size isn't or shouldn't be an issue are somewhat missing the point. Size doesn't have to be an issue but it often is. If Jones were a couple inches taller or 20 pounds stronger then that would likely mitigate some of his shortcomings. But he's not a couple inches taller or 20 pounds heavier so he's going to be completely reliant on his puck moving ability to be successful. Can he pull it off? Sure, other players have, others will. I don't think the argument is that he can't be successful because he's a smaller player, it's that by being a smaller (and honestly, mich weaker) player it makes it more difficult for him to succeed.

All the talk of "if size was the only thing that mattered then (insert shitty failed player) would be a star" is sidestepping the actual discussion about what Jones can and cannot do.

I don't think it's a coincidence that many of us who watched a lot of Hartford games and regularly provided our opinions of players are the same ones urging caution on Jones, because we all saw his issues last year against lesser competition than what he'll be facing in the NHL.

He's also played 38 NHL games over the last 3 years, so everyone, not just HFD watchers, do have some idea what he does on the ice.

In those NHL games, he had good and bad moments. Like most 21-22 year old defensemen do.

He should absolutely be able to have a good enough training camp to get the #6 spot, shelter his minutes if they must, but he has been classified as one of the teams top prospects for a few years now, at a certain point you have to see what you have at the NHL level. If he is that much of a disaster, then you can put any number of #6-7 dman to replace him.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

Still not a fan. Think he has more value as a trade chip. Guy has Mike Mottau/Thomas Pock/Matt Gilroy vibes written all over him. Good in college, decent AHLer, not a good NHLer.

The lack of Bobby Sanguinetti.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Based on the extensive playing time he got in the NHL right.

Decent AHLer? He scored 30+ points in 50 games this and last year. 41 point pace this year, 48 point pace last year in the AHL over 72 games (AHL season).

Last year he was 18th among defenseman in AHL scoring. Only one player above him was younger and only 2 players above him played less games. He played 10+ games fewer than most on the list above him.

That's more than decent.

He's 22 years old.

Mottau scored 43 points in 61 games in the AHL, and 51 points in 80 in his second year.
Pock 61 in 67 one year.
Still didn't translate to the NHL.

 

[eco's bones]

The kid is underrated around here. We bitch and moan about our transition game, Jones brings exactly what this team has needed all season. But Neanderthal thinking that defenseman need to be big and lumbering is preventing it from happening. His production has translated from NCAA to AHL. He's looked good in the smidgen of NHL time he's gotten. He needs an extended try out in the NHL. Put him with Trouba. Trouba needs to focus on his own end shutting down opposing players. Stop trying to do too much. Put him with Jones. Let Jones retrieve and move the puck. Let Jones pinch and move the puck. That's what he's good at.

"Can't have two". Rangers last won a Cup with Leetch and Zubov. No, Fox ain't Leetch and Jones ain't Zubov. But the idea of not being able to have more than one puck mover is ridiculous. The Devils won Cups with Rafalski and Niedermayer (not huge).

Jones isn't even THAT small. There's no distinguishable difference between 6 foot and 5-11. It's one inch. And the kid is 22 he can gain pounds as he grows.

The rest of the Rangers D are "big" enough and physical enough. I'd be more concerned with mobility than size.

Leetch was 5'11 and pretty damn stocky. He was also an extraordinarily gifted offensive player. Zubov was 6'1 and about 200 lbs. Also a very gifted offensive player. Both had to work on their defense and Zubov was sat down often in that Stanley Cup season by Keenan who didn't like how he sometimes reacted to a hard forecheck. To me we can compare and talk about Fox when talking about those two......but it's way f***ing early for Zac Jones to be in that kind of conversation. It was a different time then anyway and that Rangers team was loaded like no Rangers team before or since.

I wasn't impressed with Zac's NHL game last year. He skates and moves the puck well but there's more needed than that to be a good NHL defenseman. Having skills is great but it is not a be all and end all. He didn't defend well and Schneider who is still a bit raw himself was not a particularly good partner for him. I also don't see good reason to break up Trouba/Miller which IMO is a very good pairing to accommodate a player who has absolutely not shown he's top 4 material at least at this time.

Zac can't do anything about his 5'10 height. I don't think it would hurt him at all to increase weight and muscle and I don't think he's going to have an easy time unless and until he does. He's very talented but it's not blow you away talent and not Adam Fox very high hockey IQ like. If he makes the Rangers it's likely again with Schneider as partner. That said sometimes things are better the second time around. He's not a lock in my eyes. He'll have to go to camp....earn his job like a Cuylle or an Othmann or ? and then he'll have to play well enough to stick afterwards. Laviolette is not going to put up with subpar defense from him for very long and particularly from a player still waiver eligible.

 

[Guyute]

Jones isn't even THAT small. There's no distinguishable difference between 6 foot and 5-11. It's one inch. And the kid is 22 he can gain pounds as he grows.

Careful!! There are some here that will come after you for failing to understand the significance that a difference 1 inch and 10 pounds can make.

Not surprising that it’s the same people who think 45 seconds of 3v3 will ruin a season’s worth of even strength data.

 

[Fitzy]

The lack of Bobby Sanguinetti.

I remember folks thought Staal-Sanguinetti was gonna be the pair to lead us to glory.

 

[nyr2k2]

Careful!! There are some here that will come after you for failing to understand the significance that a difference 1 inch and 10 pounds can make.

Not surprising that it’s the same people who think 45 seconds of 3v3 will ruin a season’s worth of even strength data.

Ten pounds could potentially make a huge difference when you're a smaller defenseman who is demonstrably...not strong. It's not like we're talking about some random guy like me, where ten pounds is the difference between two bad weeks of eating or sticking to not being a fat ass. Ten pounds of muscle for a guy like Jones could make a huge difference. Or--or!--it could make no difference.

That's the weird thing about this discussion, though, which is that for every person who seems to take a "size is everything" approach, there's another person who seems to take a "size doesn't matter at all" approach, when both are horseshit.

I've seen smaller guys that are f***ing bulls, that can dig a puck out like a guy 6 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier. The numbers are just numbers. How do they manifest themselves? For Jones, having watched most of his games the last two years, he is objectively not strong on the puck, not strong in the corners, and not strong in front of his net. Those are concerns. If his offense can offset those concerns, great. If it doesn't, then he's not going to be a player because he's not going to be a guy you have in the lineup because of his defensive prowess. And he's not a super-IQ guy who can make up for it all by being a step ahead of the play.

The numbers are just that, numbers. But what's behind the numbers is the real story, which is that of a guy who is going to have to work pretty hard to become a regular in the NHL, based on what I've seen.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Zac Jones with ‘make-or-break’ Rangers shot isn’t afraid of the work

And after signing a two-year extension Friday, Jones earned his next chance to earn a full-time NHL spot.

nypost.com

The Rangers think he’s mastered the AHL and can stick with the Blueshirts this time, according to The Post’s Mollie Walker.

Well, sure seems like the Rangers think he played well in the AHL, in contrast to what someone said about his play in the AHL this season. Looks like he will be given every chance to get that Rangers spot in training camp.

 

[eco's bones]

Zac Jones with ‘make-or-break’ Rangers shot isn’t afraid of the work

And after signing a two-year extension Friday, Jones earned his next chance to earn a full-time NHL spot.

nypost.com

Well, sure seems like the Rangers think he played well in the AHL, in contrast to what someone said about his play in the AHL this season. Looks like he will be given every chance to get that Rangers spot in training camp.

The main thing I garnered from that is that Jones is aware that he needs to be stronger and has changed up his training regimen this summer to address that. Hopefully we'll see that in September at training camp. Younger players particularly need to be able to self critique and work at improving weaker areas of their game. Jones is not going to become a good NHL defenseman without having a sound defensive game. Sheltering a defenseman is something that's okay for a little while but sooner or later all birds have to fly on their own. It's a reason why Tony DeAngelo can't stick anywhere for very long. There are success stories among smaller D but again got to be able to play decent defense.

 

[Ruggs225]

Hope he is running PP 2.

he cant be sent down wither this year. Would have to clear waivers which obviously wont happen.

So he made the team, or will be traded.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The kid is underrated around here. We bitch and moan about our transition game, Jones brings exactly what this team has needed all season. But Neanderthal thinking that defenseman need to be big and lumbering is preventing it from happening. His production has translated from NCAA to AHL. He's looked good in the smidgen of NHL time he's gotten. He needs an extended try out in the NHL. Put him with Trouba. Trouba needs to focus on his own end shutting down opposing players. Stop trying to do too much. Put him with Jones. Let Jones retrieve and move the puck. Let Jones pinch and move the puck. That's what he's good at.

"Can't have two". Rangers last won a Cup with Leetch and Zubov. No, Fox ain't Leetch and Jones ain't Zubov. But the idea of not being able to have more than one puck mover is ridiculous. The Devils won Cups with Rafalski and Niedermayer (not huge).

Jones isn't even THAT small. There's no distinguishable difference between 6 foot and 5-11. It's one inch. And the kid is 22 he can gain pounds as he grows.

The rest of the Rangers D are "big" enough and physical enough. I'd be more concerned with mobility than size.

Im happy to give him a chance but he looked closer to 5 foot 9 than 5 foot 11 imo.

 

[duhmetreE]

We're gonna Hajek him

 

[NYR Viper]

We're gonna Hajek him

You didn't...

 

[Harbour Dog]

Im happy to give him a chance but he looked closer to 5 foot 9 than 5 foot 11 imo.

Yeah, I don't know if it's because he's skinnier than most, but he definitely doesn't look 5'11 on the ice.

I'm just glad that we're likely giving him a chance to sink or swim. Can't think of a single negative thing to say about how we drafted and have handled him; it's refreshing.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Yeah, I don't know if it's because he's skinnier than most, but he definitely doesn't look 5'11 on the ice.

I'm just glad that we're likely giving him a chance to sink or swim. Can't think of a single negative thing to say about how we drafted and have handled him; it's refreshing.

Doesn’t being skinny make someone look taller lol, being stocky would make him look short

 

[duhmetreE]

I thought Jones and Lundkvst always looked tiny. Like boys in a mans game

 

[NYR Viper]

I thought Jones and Lundkvst always looked tiny. Like boys in a mans game

You're thinking of Kravtsov.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yeah, I don't know if it's because he's skinnier than most, but he definitely doesn't look 5'11 on the ice.

I'm just glad that we're likely giving him a chance to sink or swim. Can't think of a single negative thing to say about how we drafted and have handled him; it's refreshing.

No complaints? Is that allowed on here?

 

[Fitzy]

I thought Jones and Lundkvst always looked tiny. Like boys in a mans game

MSL made Zuccarello look like a monster.

As to 2k2s points, he has valid concerns. Jones will have to produce to the tune of 30-40 points at least to be worth the hassle, (Good advanced metrics wouldn’t hurt- don’t have to defend as much of you have the puck) and that won’t be easy.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Doesn’t being skinny make someone look taller lol, being stocky would make him look short

Haha maybe? Maybe short isn't the right word. He looks petite lol

No complaints? Is that allowed on here?

Only on Mondays, and only with the understanding that you're banking up all your rage for a future post.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Im happy to give him a chance but he looked closer to 5 foot 9 than 5 foot 11 imo.

Let's see how he looks in camp. Supposedly he's working on his strength this summer. He's young. 22. It would be a mistake to give up so quickly on a defenseman like him that has his vision and skill set. Even if he needed another season in the AHL, it's not unheard of for a defenseman to break into the NHL at 23. But if he gets stronger this summer, I'm excited to see what he can do in camp.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Let's see how he looks in camp. Supposedly he's working on his strength this summer. He's young. 22. It would be a mistake to give up so quickly on a defenseman like him that has his vision and skill set. Even if he needed another season in the AHL, it's not u heard of for a defenseman to break into the NHL at 23. But if he gets stronger this summer, I'm excited to see what he can do in camp.

My dad always told me you shouldn't give up on young guys so I definitely have an open mind.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

I like the signing. It keeps Jones happy with an NHL paycheck in the event he needs to continue to develop in Hartford, but also locks in a valuable low salary in case he starts to break out.

Fact of the matter is, we need what Jones can bring. Zone exits, transition game, ability to walk the blue line and serve as PP2QB. If we had a better PP2 in the playoffs, we probably make it past NJ. Trotting Trouba out there to run that unit is not an option that should have ever gotten out of the experimental phase.

I'll live with the kid's warts in the defensive zone while he gets up to speed at the NHL level. If after half a season, it becomes obvious he needs more time, then you send him back down knowing you gave him a real chance to settle in and succeed. Hopefully, he's able to pick up some tips from Fox on how to defend as a smaller D. And, by the way, I think his defensive issues are largely overblown. Like many smaller D, people tend to hyper-focus on the things that are more difficult for them (hitting, crease-clearing, and other "eye test" attributes) while downplaying things that make real positive impacts (zone entry/exits/denials, transition offense, PPQB ability, etc.).

 

[FlyguyOX]

Im happy to give him a chance but he looked closer to 5 foot 9 than 5 foot 11 imo.

Every time I look at this thread he loses an inch from posters.

He looks closer to 5'11" or even 6' on the ice. Be real.

In this clip he's same height as Pavelski