Confirmed with Link: NYR agree 2 year extension with Zac Jones

[NickyFotiu]

In juniors.

My memory could be wrong but I think Bobby won both the fastest skater and hardest shot competitions in the AHL.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I’d like to see Jones and Fox together. Could resemble a Timmonen-Carle pairing.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I have real doubts about Jones and I'm not sure "just play him" is the right course of action. At minimum I'd like to make sure we have someone else who could fill in as a #6 in the event the NHL proves too physically taxing for him.

How are we going to know if he is an NHL player if we dont “just play him”. Number 6 dmen are a dime a dozen and we always have 1-2 lying around if he sinks at the NHL level, but we will never know that unless we…play him.

 

[bouds]

The kid has something, just hasn’t gotten enough run.

 

[nyr2k2]

How are we going to know if he is an NHL player if we dont “just play him”. Number 6 dmen are a dime a dozen and we always have 1-2 lying around if he sinks at the NHL level, but we will never know that unless we…play him.

When I hear people say "just play him" that sounds to me like "hand him a spot and roll with it." I'm not in favor of that. He needs to come to camp and look like an NHL player, someone quick and strong enough to handle a regular shift in the NHL. And even if he makes it, he needs to be used strategically at first. He's going to need to be sheltered to a large degree and there are going to be times where he needs to sit. He's just not going to be an all-situations, minutes-eating defender at the NHL level and that's really my point. Play him, sure, but do it in a smart way where you're putting him in a position to succeed and not asking him to do things he really can't do.

 

[Off Sides]

Will be traded next deadline for some over the hill vet.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Harpur is serviceable there, IMO... he's one of the more polished D they havE, he's very adaptable/well-coached just limited.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

My memory could be wrong but I think Bobby won both the fastest skater and hardest shot competitions in the AHL.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Still not a fan. Think he has more value as a trade chip. Guy has Mike Mottau/Thomas Pock/Matt Gilroy vibes written all over him. Good in college, decent AHLer, not a good NHLer.

Based on the extensive playing time he got in the NHL right.

Decent AHLer? He scored 30+ points in 50 games this and last year. 41 point pace this year, 48 point pace last year in the AHL over 72 games (AHL season).

Last year he was 18th among defenseman in AHL scoring. Only one player above him was younger and only 2 players above him played less games. He played 10+ games fewer than most on the list above him.

That's more than decent.

He's 22 years old.

 

[Fitzy]

When I hear people say "just play him" that sounds to me like "hand him a spot and roll with it." I'm not in favor of that. He needs to come to camp and look like an NHL player, someone quick and strong enough to handle a regular shift in the NHL. And even if he makes it, he needs to be used strategically at first. He's going to need to be sheltered to a large degree and there are going to be times where he needs to sit. He's just not going to be an all-situations, minutes-eating defender at the NHL level and that's really my point. Play him, sure, but do it in a smart way where you're putting him in a position to succeed and not asking him to do things he really can't do.

And all this is fine, but I think given that even as a limited role player, his potential upsides fit very well with what this roster is currently lacking.

We can compensate for his shortcomings in others areas of which we are currently stronger.

I’ll take a 12 minute sheltered puck mover with tool to grow over a 12 minute sheltered veteran pylon with grit

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

There was a moment in time when I had very high hopes for Jones.

I’m rooting for him because when he’s on he’s really great to watch

 

[Tob]

hes done what the org gas asked of him. good soldier. bolds well for him if i were a betting man.

 

[n8]

I haven't seen enough of him to make a fair evaluation. I think our defense lacks speed so Im open to him or others. Think Lindy may eventually move down to our 3rd pairing.


Wish Bobby made it. He had very good speed and a good shot.

Bobby's failure was really sad because it lead to the drafting of MDZ who came out guns ablazing and in my mind made Sather complacent with the offensive dman position so we skipped over Fowler who was supposed to be a top 5 pick for - I don't even need to say the name. Also Claude Giroux drafted right after Bobby so T__T

 

[eco's bones]

It's a good deal for him and the Rangers. He gets some certainty and a decent amount of guaranteed money.....the Rangers get options in case he's still not ready.

Zac will have to prove he can defend well enough at the NHL level. To me he's kind of in the same boat as Nils is in. Their bread and butter is puck movement and offensive skill but it's not good enough that they can get by on just that. Personally I think Zac had a very so so year last year. He couldn't stick with the Rangers and in Hartford as the No. 1 offense and power play guy it was an up and down season. 34 points in 54 games in Hartford was......okay. The problems I saw at the NHL level were board battles, net front coverage, getting caught up ice, wearing down too easily against a long sustained forecheck. This is typical for younger defensemen but they have to find a way to overcome these issues if they're going to become good NHL defensemen. His size is a detriment in some of this....but Fox has shown that with guile, body and stick positioning they can be overcome.

I didn't find the hiring of Laviolette all that inspiring but that aside he is not soft. I don't see him sticking with Zac over Harpur on the bottom pair any more than Gallant did if Zac struggles too much. Zac is a much better skater and puck mover but Harpur can handle the grind and plays within his limitations......and though he doesn't all that often make the best play he does tend to make safe plays.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

One way both years ?

Contract structure is always for the full contract.

1-way contract means he gets his NHL salary even if he's in the AHL.

Jones is waiver eligible because he completed 3 years (having signed as a 20-year old). For players signing an ELC at age 20, they are waiver exempt until they:

- Complete 3 seasons, or
- Play 160 NHL games (pro-rated to 143 due to shortened seasons in the case of Zac Jones)

 

[GENESISPuck94]

The kid is underrated around here. We bitch and moan about our transition game, Jones brings exactly what this team has needed all season. But Neanderthal thinking that defenseman need to be big and lumbering is preventing it from happening. His production has translated from NCAA to AHL. He's looked good in the smidgen of NHL time he's gotten. He needs an extended try out in the NHL. Put him with Trouba. Trouba needs to focus on his own end shutting down opposing players. Stop trying to do too much. Put him with Jones. Let Jones retrieve and move the puck. Let Jones pinch and move the puck. That's what he's good at.

"Can't have two". Rangers last won a Cup with Leetch and Zubov. No, Fox ain't Leetch and Jones ain't Zubov. But the idea of not being able to have more than one puck mover is ridiculous. The Devils won Cups with Rafalski and Niedermayer (not huge).

Jones isn't even THAT small. There's no distinguishable difference between 6 foot and 5-11. It's one inch. And the kid is 22 he can gain pounds as he grows.

The rest of the Rangers D are "big" enough and physical enough. I'd be more concerned with mobility than size.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Jones-fox
Miller-Schneider
Lindgren-Trouba

Give traffic cone trouba the low minutes. Awful D-man.

 

[GAGLine]

Contract structure is always for the full contract.

1-way contract means he gets his NHL salary even if he's in the AHL.

Jones is waiver eligible because he completed 3 years (having signed as a 20-year old). For players signing an ELC at age 20, they are waiver exempt until they:

- Complete 3 seasons, or
- Play 160 NHL games (pro-rated to 143 due to shortened seasons in the case of Zac Jones)

The contract can be 2-way one year and 1-way another year.

Dryden Hunt signed a 2 year deal with the Rangers in 2021:

His minors salary was the same as his NHL salary in year 2.

Similar situation for Alex Barre-Boulet:

The first year was 2-way and the last 2 are 1-way.

 

[nyr2k2]

The kid is underrated around here. We bitch and moan about our transition game, Jones brings exactly what this team has needed all season. But Neanderthal thinking that defenseman need to be big and lumbering is preventing it from happening. His production has translated from NCAA to AHL. He's looked good in the smidgen of NHL time he's gotten. He needs an extended try out in the NHL. Put him with Trouba. Trouba needs to focus on his own end shutting down opposing players. Stop trying to do too much. Put him with Jones. Let Jones retrieve and move the puck. Let Jones pinch and move the puck. That's what he's good at.

"Can't have two". Rangers last won a Cup with Leetch and Zubov. No, Fox ain't Leetch and Jones ain't Zubov. But the idea of not being able to have more than one puck mover is ridiculous. The Devils won Cups with Rafalski and Niedermayer (not huge).

Jones isn't even THAT small. There's no distinguishable difference between 6 foot and 5-11. It's one inch. And the kid is 22 he can gain pounds as he grows.

The rest of the Rangers D are "big" enough and physical enough. I'd be more concerned with mobility than size.

I think the vast majority of posters understand that our transition game and zone exits were are/huge problems, and because of that a guy like Trouba or a guy like Harpur took a majority of criticism on our back end. If people were simply engaging in "neanderthal thinking" like you argue then Trouba would be lauded and not loathed.

It's not just about him being smaller, because smaller guys can certainly play defense, and you can also play defense without being overly physical. But there are real concerns about his strength and how he holds up against bigger players in his own end, and that's in the AHL. Those concerns shouldn't be dismissed just because he has some other traits that may be appealing. Again, I'm all for giving him a real opportunity, but it needs to be done wisely. People here saying pair him with Fox on the first pair? Come on, the guy would get eaten alive, and as we've seen Fox plays his best hockey when he has a steady defensive presence next to him, that he can count on and rely on to cover for him, and that is not Jones at all.

You want to break Jones in then you give him exclusively offensive and neutral zone starts when you can, let him spend some time on the PP, and yank him off the ice when he's facing an unfavorable matchup. And then you slowly try to integrate him into those more challenging scenarios if he shows he can handle it.

I don't know how you can read through this thread and make the determination that Jones is underrated. If anything I see some unrealistic takes on what he is and some pretty blind optimism about what he might be able to do.

 

[cwede]

The contract can be 2-way one year and 1-way another year.

Dryden Hunt signed a 2 year deal with the Rangers in 2021:
His minors salary was the same as his NHL salary in year 2.

Similar situation for Alex Barre-Boulet:
The first year was 2-way and the last 2 are 1-way.

Thanks for the examples, I'd been mentioning this possibility as a common approach we'd seen before

Mollie made strongest reports its 1-way, and she does sometimes write ambiguously, or less-informed, re CBA topics.

This from her Jones article today:"...Because he signed his entry-level contract at age 20, Jones would’ve been waiver eligible this season no matter if his new deal were one-way or two-way."

First half of sentence is germain, but latter half seems to imply that, otherwise, 1-way vs 2-way might impact waiver status. IIRC, those have NO correlation

 

[pld459666]

Kid can move the puck out of the D zone. If we are looking to transition quickly, hes a better option than Mikkola, Harpur and any other non-skating boat anchor we have had there.

Size could be an issue, but strength, positioning and added snarl can offset that.

Hes as good a bottom pairing defender that we can expect on the open market for under 1.0mm

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The kid is underrated around here. We bitch and moan about our transition game, Jones brings exactly what this team has needed all season. But Neanderthal thinking that defenseman need to be big and lumbering is preventing it from happening. His production has translated from NCAA to AHL. He's looked good in the smidgen of NHL time he's gotten. He needs an extended try out in the NHL. Put him with Trouba. Trouba needs to focus on his own end shutting down opposing players. Stop trying to do too much. Put him with Jones. Let Jones retrieve and move the puck. Let Jones pinch and move the puck. That's what he's good at.

"Can't have two". Rangers last won a Cup with Leetch and Zubov. No, Fox ain't Leetch and Jones ain't Zubov. But the idea of not being able to have more than one puck mover is ridiculous. The Devils won Cups with Rafalski and Niedermayer (not huge).

Jones isn't even THAT small. There's no distinguishable difference between 6 foot and 5-11. It's one inch. And the kid is 22 he can gain pounds as he grows.

The rest of the Rangers D are "big" enough and physical enough. I'd be more concerned with mobility than size.

If there's one thing the Rangers were lacking and could have used last season, it's the puck-moving ability Jones brings.

This team was always stuck and pinned down in their own zone, never getting the puck out further than the neutral zone with a dump.

The whole "Can't have 2 defensemen under 6 ft" narrative is nonsense. Colorado won with Makar and Girard. Washington won with Jeřábek, Orlov and Djoos.

The thing is, players under 5ft aren't as common as players 6 ft and over. So of course in raw numbers you're going to see fewer players that are 5'11". A lot of fans mistake that for size being a factor.

Correlation does not imply causation.

 

[GAGLine]

If there's one thing the Rangers were lacking and could have used last season, it's the puck-moving ability Jones brings.

This team was always stuck and pinned down in their own zone, never getting the puck out further than the neutral zone with a dump.

The whole "Can't have 2 defensemen under 6 ft" narrative is nonsense. Colorado won with Makar and Girard. Washington won with Jeřábek, Orlov and Djoos.

The thing is, players under 5ft aren't as common as players 6 ft and over. So of course in raw numbers you're going to see fewer players that are 5'11". A lot of fans mistake that for size being a factor.

Correlation does not imply causation.

While I somewhat agree with your sentiment, I have to argue your points. The bolded line goes both ways. The presence of players under 6 foot on cup winning teams doesn't prove your case.

For your examples, Orlov is 5'11", but he's listed at 208 lbs. He's a tank. Jones is 5'11" and 175 lbs. That's a significant difference in mass and strength.

Jerabek only played 2 games for the Caps in that playoff run. Djoos, listed at 6' and 180 lbs, played 22 games, but got less than 11 minutes per game. He was heavily sheltered.

Girard only played 7 games for Colorado in their cup run, 4 of them against Nashville, who was clearly overmatched. The other 3 were against St. Louis and Girard only played 56 seconds in one of those. The other two, the teams split. He contributed 3 points in those 6+ games and was a -1.

Makar played a ton and was a chief reason they won, but Jones is about as far from being Makar as I am from being Jones.

Thus far, Jones hasn't brought enough puck moving to offset his weaknesses. We'll see how he looks in training camp, but he needs to be reliable 5 on 5, because he isn't going to get significant PP or PK time. If Lavi doesn't trust him to take a regular shift, he's not going to play.

 

[Roo Returns]

I like this now just give the kid a chance to be the good cop to Schneider's bad cop.

I'm sick of hearing about crease clearing and size, how about speed? And if he makes a mistake here and there, so do dozens of every other DMen.

Internal bang for buck.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

While I somewhat agree with your sentiment, I have to argue your points. The bolded line goes both ways. The presence of players under 6 foot on cup winning teams doesn't prove your case.

For your examples, Orlov is 5'11", but he's listed at 208 lbs. He's a tank. Jones is 5'11" and 175 lbs. That's a significant difference in mass and strength.

This just proves that it isn't about height at all, as so many make it out to be.

But I can name a whole list of players under 6 ft. Is Jared Spurgeon a good example? Or does he not count because he hasn't won a cup yet?

This isn't directed at you. I'm just tired of the same old argument that size matters to the point people think it does.

If it did, McIlrath would be in the NHL.