Value of: NYI's First Round Picks

[NotProkofievian]

In terms of packaging both 1sts together, absolutely.

A 1st + one of our 2nds, perhaps with a minor sweetener, has been the established price of moving up a few spots in the draft. If that value isn't enough, we're more than happy to keep our picks and hope the right guys fall into our laps.

No one's trading Dahlin, of course, but how far do you think 10 or 12 + 41 or 43 is going to get you in the draft?

FWIW, I obviously think it's correct for NYI to stand pat unless they're getting 1-2, and understandable even if they're offered 3, but I was just trying to guage if there's some other prospect that NYI fans ''love,'' and won't be available to you at your picks.

 

[CREW99AW]

At the draft: Holtby to Isles for CGY's 1st rd pick

Oh well, this would not be the first draft I have furiously cursed Snow and his parents

 

[CodeE]

No one's trading Dahlin, of course, but how far do you think 10 or 12 + 41 or 43 is going to get you in the draft?

FWIW, I obviously think it's correct for NYI to stand pat unless they're getting 1-2, and understandable even if they're offered 3, but I was just trying to guage if there's some other prospect that NYI fans ''love,'' and won't be available to you at your picks.

Yeah, and no offense or anything, but this is a pretty flimsy rationale and gets used way too much (especially this season) to justify the Islanders making bad trades.

From "we HAVE to trade our picks for a UFA so Tavares stays", to "we HAVE to trade our picks for a below average goalie who'll become Billy Smith 2.0 when he arrives", it's a lot of hypothetical mumbo jumbo that always can better be classified as wishful thinking.

That on draft day, Snow is so obsessed with getting one single prospect (or one single veteran, or one single below average goalie, etc etc) that he'll happily pony up an overpayment, which in turn helps your team immensely. Maybe it happens: we've all seen GMs make trades that fanbases hate instantly because of how much they covet a player, but it always seems to follow the same formula: "If XYZ happens, you make this trade and my team benefits".

There's no defensive prospect after Dahlin that Islander fans are happy giving up both 1sts for. If you're willing to take a chance on your team rebounding and doing MTL's 2018 + unprotected 2019 1sts for NYI + CGY, Snow may be tempted to make a deal like that, but both 1sts for a guy like Hughes or Boqvist? No thanks.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yeah, and no offense or anything, but this is a pretty flimsy rationale and gets used way too much (especially this season) to justify the Islanders making bad trades.

Obviously (no offence). That's why I said I think it's correct for NYI to stand pat. That's also why the ''back trader'' would make the trade: they hope to exploit some silliness like ''Noah Dobson is going to change the course of our franchise.''

This is sort of the law of trading any asset. Somebody has to be wrong, so in the presence of rational actors, trades don't happen. It's actually a miracle that any trades happen at all. If someone's selling an asset, there should be something wrong with it, in their opinion. If they're rational, the buyer should realise this and call off the deal. The reasoning works in reverse as well: ''maybe the buyer knows something that I don't, I better not sell.''

People have to believe, at some level, that the person they're trading with is wrong. Since trades happen, we know that this sort of conceit is fairly common. The NYI themselves exploited such conceit in getting Barzal.

 

[CodeE]

Obviously (no offence). That's why I said I think it's correct for NYI to stand pat. That's also why the ''back trader'' would make the trade: they hope to exploit some silliness like ''Noah Dobson is going to change the course of our franchise.''

This is sort of the law of trading any asset. Somebody has to be wrong, so in the presence of rational actors, trades don't happen. It's actually a miracle that any trades happen at all. If someone's selling an asset, there should be something wrong with it, in their opinion. If they're rational, the buyer should realise this and call off the deal. The reasoning works in reverse as well: ''maybe the buyer knows something that I don't, I better not sell.''

People have to believe, at some level, that the person they're trading with is wrong. Since trades happen, we know that this sort of conceit is fairly common. The NYI themselves exploited such conceit in getting Barzal.

Honestly though, with pure draft pick trades it becomes a bit simpler. Nobody's trading Dahlin for our picks, and no other prospect is worth them both. Maybe if Svech was a natural C there'd be a debate, but we've got right wingers.

You can find teams who'll trade up and down in the 1st round, it just has to make sense for both teams. Hence me thinking a move up from #10 to #6-9, adding a 2nd, seems far more likely if you find a team who has their eye on a player who'll likely be available at #10.

Personally I think it's more likely Snow will pull a late round special, trading up into the late 1st to make 3 picks in the 1st round - like with Nelson, Beau, Ho-Sang. In that case, you have to wonder if a team would require both 2nd rounders for a 1st in the late 20s. We traded 33+72 for 28 to grab Beauvillier, but had to trade 2 2nd rounders (35+57) to take Ho-Sang.

 

[72hockey guy]

codee is exactly right you draft bpa and dont trade it for other teams unwanted players, they are looking to add to their depth and save their cap space, why should we help them?

let them worry about them and let us worry about us, if we do the right thing they will come begging for us to help them

whats Washing to gonna do with All 3 of Holtby,Grubauer and Samsonov. eventually one is going somewhere, for a hell of a lost less than our first and even if they are traded elsewhere, that still means someone else now has a surplus

why help someone else at the expense of our selves just because some of our fans have no patience

 

[dayner]

If I was the Canucks and I got up to #2 in the draft, I would trade #2 to the Isles for 9-12. Try and take Ty Smith and Noah Dobson if it worked out nicely.

 

[PWJunior]

If I was the Canucks and I got up to #2 in the draft, I would trade #2 to the Isles for 9-12. Try and take Ty Smith and Noah Dobson if it worked out nicely.

Why wouldn't the Isles take Dobson and Smith themselves? Why would they trade up for a winger when they have much bigger needs elsewhere?

 

[dayner]

Because he can come in next year and be a top 6 RW. Those 2 D-men will require two years of seasoning.

Why wouldn't the Isles take Dobson and Smith themselves? Why would they trade up for a winger when they have much bigger needs elsewhere?

 

[PWJunior]

Because he can come in next year and be a top 6 RW. Those 2 D-men will require two years of seasoning.

The Isles have Bailey and Eberle as their top-6 RW's. They have little issue scoring, their defense is terrible. How does adding another RW that isn't a major need improve that?

Other than wishful thinking on your part, it makes little sense for the Isles. Unless Dahlin somehow slips to #2, then deal. I assume Vancouver wouldn't do the deal if that were the case though, right?

 

[72hockey guy]

The Isles have Bailey and Eberle as their top-6 RW's. They have little issue scoring, their defense is terrible. How does adding another RW that isn't a major need improve that?

Other than wishful thinking on your part, it makes little sense for the Isles. Unless Dahlin somehow slips to #2, then deal. I assume Vancouver wouldn't do the deal if that were the case though, right?

agreed and I happen to think Bellows will only add to our offense

id be ecstatic if we could get Dobson and Smith with our picks

without the Sedins I could see them going offense unless they get number 1, Horvat and Boeser need some help or they will be murdered every night

 

[CREW99AW]

Because he can come in next year and be a top 6 RW. Those 2 D-men will require two years of seasoning.

This draft is heavy with quality blueline talent.

At what point do the isles,desperately needing high end D, add high end defensive talent to the organization?
Maybe in the 2019 draft, which is heavy on highly skilled forwards?

 

[dayner]

The Isles have Bailey and Eberle as their top-6 RW's. They have little issue scoring, their defense is terrible. How does adding another RW that isn't a major need improve that?

Other than wishful thinking on your part, it makes little sense for the Isles. Unless Dahlin somehow slips to #2, then deal. I assume Vancouver wouldn't do the deal if that were the case though, right?

Sorry for not having much faith in Mr inconsistent, Josh Bailey.
Svech can take his place immediately.

isles D has seen vast improvement recently, I would just be concerned that D-men like Smith, Dobson, Bouchard will require more seasoning in the minors before they will ever come close to having an impact and you guys do seem to have some young guys like Toews, Vande somple, aho....obviously pulock Mayfield and a few others. Has the making of a decent d core

 

[dayner]

agreed and I happen to think Bellows will only add to our offense

id be ecstatic if we could get Dobson and Smith with our picks

without the Sedins I could see them going offense unless they get number 1, Horvat and Boeser need some help or they will be murdered every night

Got some young forwards on the rise. We won't be going for a forward unless we get 2 or 3 and don't trade it. Juolevi is our only high end D prospect

 

[CREW99AW]

S

isles D has seen vast improvement recently, I would just be concerned that D-men like Smith, Dobson, Bouchard will require more seasoning in the minors before they will ever come close to having an impact and you guys do seem to have some young guys like Toews, Vande somple, aho....obviously pulock Mayfield and a few others. Has the making of a decent d core

Vast improvenent? Lmao ...isles D is one of the worst in the nhl. Stop trying to bs fans, who well aware of the team's biggest weakness.
We want more then a decent blueline core.
Among the young blueliners who played on this season's roster, only Pulock really impressed me.
I sure as heck wouldn't pass up the chance to add high end blueline talent because of players like Mayfield, Pelech, Aho

 

[CodeE]

If I was the Canucks and I got up to #2 in the draft, I would trade #2 to the Isles for 9-12. Try and take Ty Smith and Noah Dobson if it worked out nicely.

I would just be concerned that D-men like Smith, Dobson, Bouchard will require more seasoning in the minors before they will ever come close to having an impact

"Man if the Canucks win #2 it would work out nicely to trade down and grab Dobson and Smith. Oh no no no, wait wait wait, you guys don't want Dobson and Smith, there's lots of concerns. Lots of concerns. Getting Svech and finding a way to get inconsistent 71-point, just signed an extension Bailey out of the lineup should be a priority for you guys, and getting two top pairing potential defenders is a priority for us."

 

[72hockey guy]

it will be so sad if a great talent like Boeser gets beat up night after night because teams realize he's the only legit offensive threat the canucks have. I pray for Brocks sake that the Canucks dont follow Dayners Blueprint, he's one of the best most dynamic forwards in hockey and he gets beat to a pulp every game. for the love of God Benning get this kid some protection or he'll be finished in 3 years

boeser and horvat are the only players on that roster right now with as many as 20 goals

nobody else has even 15

and with Boeser and horvat on the same line, they are gonna get murdered, because teams will know stop them and the canucks cant score

 

[PKWeber]

Petry+2nd+McCarron for NYI 2018 1st round pick & Nelson.

 

[CREW99AW]

Petry+2nd+McCarron for NYI 2018 1st round pick & Nelson.

A top 12 pick + a 20 goal scorer for Petry and spare parts? Put down the bong.
CDH recently told the press that he and his girlfriend like living on LI and he still hopes for an extension.
If the isles are willing to pay Petry 4 yrs/$19m, they might as well bring back CDH.

 

[CREW99AW]

"Man if the Canucks win #2 it would work out nicely to trade down and grab Dobson and Smith. Oh no no no, wait wait wait, you guys don't want Dobson and Smith, there's lots of concerns. Lots of concerns. Getting Svech and finding a way to get inconsistent 71-point, just signed an extension Bailey out of the lineup should be a priority for you guys, and getting two top pairing potential defenders is a priority for us."

Best post in this thread

 

[CodeE]

it will be so sad if a great talent like Boeser gets beat up night after night because teams realize he's the only legit offensive threat the canucks have. I pray for Brocks sake that the Canucks dont follow Dayners Blueprint, he's one of the best most dynamic forwards in hockey and he gets beat to a pulp every game. for the love of God Benning get this kid some protection or he'll be finished in 3 years

boeser and horvat are the only players on that roster right now with as many as 20 goals

nobody else has even 15

and with Boeser and horvat on the same line, they are gonna get murdered, because teams will know stop them and the canucks cant score

Vancouver's not in that bad of a spot. The hype around Elias Pettersson is sizable, even if guys like Virtanen and Juolevi still have yet to find their games at the NHL level. Assuming they don't win the lottery, they're in a great position to snag one (not two after a trade with the Isles) of the top defensemen in this draft. Could easily move a guy like Tanev for another 1st+ to add more prospects. They were a contender during the Sedin years, Sedins are retired, now they're rebuilding and have a few key players to form the next core.

 

[CREW99AW]

Could easily move a guy like Tanev for another 1st+ to add more prospects. They were a contender during the Sedin years, Sedins are retired, now they're rebuilding and have a few key players to form th.

I have doubts that a team on the top 15-20 gives up a 1st for Tanev, who has averaged 60 games a season over the last 4 seasons. That is a lot of missed games.
Could they get a late 1st? Yes, but it decreases the chance to land an impact player.

 

[joemon999]

Isles should not be trading these picks away for anything. I really hope Isles are targeting the BPA Dman with their first pick and then Joe Veleno with the 2nd pick.

I love Joe Veleno. He seems like the perfect fit on the Isles to either be an elite 3C if Tavares stays or a good 2C is Tavares leaves. I could see teams passing on him because they don't see first line center material in him, but for the isles all he would need to do is be the 2nd or 3rd best center on their team which seems achievable for him. He has the leadership qualities that Snow seems to love, and is able to play in all zones. Draft scouts are saying he needs to be surrounded by talent to be really good, as he can't do it all on his own. Isles are stacked offensively, and he would have 0 pressure adjusting to the big leagues centering behind Tavares/Barzal. On a weak team without centers I could see it being a problem for him to adjust if he's expected to carry the load. However, he will not be needed to carry the load for the Isles.

If I'm Garth Snow, I'm taking the best dman available when they are up to pick, and then use CGY's pick to draft Veleno (or vice versa).

These two picks are great insurance for the Isles. Hell, it may even save their rebuild.

 

[scott99]

You're not getting both our 1st rounders, other threads have been made and we need the depth.

I wouldn't package them together for 2nd overall to take Svech. RW is a luxury for us, not a need.

Posters, from both the Isles fanbase as well as outside fanbases, have been way too generous with trading our 1sts this year. So many random terrible threads, trading our 1sts for guys like Howard and Mrazek, Lehner, Ceci, Dell. Now we're in the home stretch and fans still seem to believe we're eager and anxious to hand them over and let another team boost their prospect cabinet instead of us.

You forget who our GM is. Would not be surprised by anything he does. That being said, he’s done decently tradewise during drafts. Hopefully we get lucky in the lottery with one of our picks.

 

[Sparksrus3]

Because he can come in next year and be a top 6 RW. Those 2 D-men will require two years of seasoning.

Dehaan drafted 12th in 2009 and Pulock 15th in 2013 both were not full time NHL players until their 5th seasons post draft.