Confirmed with Link: [NSH/TOR] Franson and Santorelli for Jokinen, Leipsic, 1st Pt. II

[ShaneFalco]

I can't believe people are entertaining the notion of resigning Franson the trade was won before even knowing the return simply by removing him. I don't want Franson on a one year contract, i don't want that soft turnover machine at any price, not to mention he's a reminder of this awful core.

Leaf's certainly don't need to worry about cap for at least the next couple of years so give Santa whatever he wants, Franson would want term anyway but again I just don't want him anywhere near this team we need the young guys to learn from responsible players.

This
Too many players look good in Toronto because the team has been so horrible.

 

[Beleafer4]

Winnik I would love to sign.

Santorelli would be nice to have... but I wouldn't be too upset if we didn't get him.

Franson I don't want at any price.

You wouldn't want franson back at 1yr 1M?
Of course I would like franson back at a certain price. It would be the same as adding an asset. Its just that his price is likely greater than what would be reasonable

 

[Super Mega]

we are not getting Franson back cheap, he is getting 4M minimum with 2-3 years term

I am not the biggest fan of his but the market will dictate his value

I would still consider signing him if term is right, Dion is getting moved and we will need some amount of stabilizing on the blue-line - Franson isn't the perfect answer - but who is?

 

[Semantics]

Re-sign Franson? No way. He's a PP specialist and we already have Rielly, Gardiner, Marner/Hanifin, Nylander, Kadri, and Percy who can play the point on the PP. I don't want a guy like Franson taking a second of ice time away from those players.

If we need a veteran 2nd pairing defender for depth next year we can find cheaper options than Franson who are more suited to ES/SH situations. And I'm not sure we'll even need that depth, Granberg and Loov will both be 23 and if we view them as eventual NHLers I'm not sure it does them much good to stay in the AHL for another year, and it doesn't harm us to have them in the NHL since we're not trying to win anyway. We could just roll with:

Gardiner-Rielly
Loov-Granberg
Robidas-Polak

or if we draft Hanifin

Gardiner-Rielly
Hanifin-Polak
Loov-Granberg
Robidas

 

[Semantics]

On board with signing Santorelli though, as long as it's for a couple years at $2M or so (no Mason Raymond style deal). A couple of hard working wingers who can skate and don't have stone hands would fit well with this team. Guys who can help Nylander and Marner retrieve pucks and get themselves open for sweet passes.

 

[gabeliscious]

we are not getting Franson back cheap, he is getting 4M minimum with 2-3 years term

I am not the biggest fan of his but the market will dictate his value

I would still consider signing him if term is right, Dion is getting moved and we will need some amount of stabilizing on the blue-line - Franson isn't the perfect answer - but who is?

i heard toronto offered him 5 years x $4.5 million and he turned it down. i dont see him signing for less then $5 million.

 

[Super Mega]

i heard toronto offered him 5 years x $4.5 million and he turned it down. i dont see him signing for less then $5 million.

I think his value may have sunk a bit after that trade - I could be wrong or regardless of that he may still get 5M.

I also don't feel Franson is just a one dimensional PP specialist - I used to kind of think this back when he was on the pairing with Fraser but he really stepped up over the next few years.

His dCorsi was quite high and it was proven many of his partners were worse without him. You dont have to love the guy to bring him back - the D core posted above with those rookies just looks like it will kill confidence of our developing players. Some amount of insulation is needed outside of Polak - honestly Robidas is a huge question mark.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Who is next years Winnik/Santorelli ?

We should be looking for more of these types. Seems like a beneficial scenario for all. They can come in and prove themselves in with some good mins. ; likely get traded at the deadline to a contender and try to up there value next summer in FAs.

at 1m they would be peanuts at the deadline and retainable too:

Target:
Kopecky (1mil)
Upshall (1mil)
Frolik (1mil)

 

[Guy Boucher]

Re-sign Franson? No way. He's a PP specialist and we already have Rielly, Gardiner, Marner/Hanifin, Nylander, Kadri, and Percy who can play the point on the PP. I don't want a guy like Franson taking a second of ice time away from those players.

If we need a veteran 2nd pairing defender for depth next year we can find cheaper options than Franson who are more suited to ES/SH situations. And I'm not sure we'll even need that depth, Granberg and Loov will both be 23 and if we view them as eventual NHLers I'm not sure it does them much good to stay in the AHL for another year, and it doesn't harm us to have them in the NHL since we're not trying to win anyway. We could just roll with:

Gardiner-Rielly
Loov-Granberg
Robidas-Polak

or if we draft Hanifin

Gardiner-Rielly
Hanifin-Polak
Loov-Granberg
Robidas

Neither Polak or Granberg are capable of playing top-4 minutes. It would be a train-wreck to go into a season like that.

Players don't just need playing time to succeed. They also need support from their teammates. There's a reason teams like Detroit or Chicago continuously develop good players. Their young players are able to play on a team where they are given support and have the comfort of making mistakes without all of them ending up in the back of the net.

I'd be fine with bringing back Franson for the right term/years or another top-4 defender.

 

[Super Mega]

Who is next years Winnik/Santorelli ?

We should be looking for more of these types. Seems like a beneficial scenario for all. They can come in and prove themselves in with some good mins. ; likely get traded at the deadline to a contender and try to up there value next summer in FAs.

at 1m they would be peanuts at the deadline and retainable too:

Target:
Kopecky (1mil)
Upshall (1mil)
Frolik (1mil)

I dont think anyone sleeps on Frolik

Upshall would be a nice piece just for his leadership value

Tyler Kennedy, Chris Porter, Matt Halischuk could be targets

 

[Bluelines]

Prior to Franson and Santorelli making their debuts with the club the Predators were 39-13-6 and had a five point lead on the entire NHL. The two combined to play in a combine 45 games for the team after being dealt South and Nashville went 8-12-3 down the stretch in those final 23 games of the season.

Franson ended the regular season with one goal and three assists in his 23 games in the gold sweater and Santorelli had the same stat line in just 22 games.

Most of us saw Franson struggle a bit in his short time in Nashville this season but he also played some pretty good hockey along the way as well. In his 23 games, four of those he played less than 12 minutes. He also managed to put three or more shots on net in five of those games. He played in five of the six playoff games against Chicago where he averaged around 14 minutes per contest with a +1 rating along with two helpers along the way.

http://predlines.com/2015/04/29/cody-franson-and-mike-santorelli-what-to-do-what-to-do/

So the Preds traded a first and a high energy prospect for 2 goals and 6 assist.... I think that is a pretty good return for the Leafs, poor return for the Preds.

 

[Bluelines]

Neither Polak or Granberg are capable of playing top-4 minutes. It would be a train-wreck to go into a season like that.

If your expectations are higher than a train wreck next year, you're gonna be one upset hombre... Leafs are going to be Buffalo bad for a few years.

 

[Bluelines]

Re-sign Franson? No way. He's a PP specialist and we already have Rielly, Gardiner, Marner/Hanifin, Nylander, Kadri, and Percy who can play the point on the PP. I don't want a guy like Franson taking a second of ice time away from those players.

If we need a veteran 2nd pairing defender for depth next year we can find cheaper options than Franson who are more suited to ES/SH situations. And I'm not sure we'll even need that depth, Granberg and Loov will both be 23 and if we view them as eventual NHLers I'm not sure it does them much good to stay in the AHL for another year, and it doesn't harm us to have them in the NHL since we're not trying to win anyway. We could just roll with:

Gardiner-Rielly
Loov-Granberg
Robidas-Polak

or if we draft Hanifin

Gardiner-Rielly
Hanifin-Polak
Loov-Granberg
Robidas

Loov/ Granberg would be a gritty pairing, I love bullies on the backend.

Gardnier worries me,he took a step back last year.

 

[Semantics]

His dCorsi was quite high and it was proven many of his partners were worse without him. You dont have to love the guy to bring him back - the D core posted above with those rookies just looks like it will kill confidence of our developing players. Some amount of insulation is needed outside of Polak - honestly Robidas is a huge question mark.

Why would playing them "kill their confidence" any more than keeping them in the AHL? Nobody's expecting them to Hjalmarsson-Oduya, or even Robidas-Polak. Nobody is going to be yelling at them when they make mistakes, and media aren't going to be running them out of town. It's a development season and these guys are 23 years old. We need to be breaking them into the NHL soon to make way for the next wave of young Marlies d-men. Either that or trade them, as most d-men that can't break into the league until they're 24-25 don't amount to much.

As for Franson, yes, he's a good d-man as evidenced by dCorsi. Who cares? We're not gunning for wins next year. It's a development year. If we really want to keep all our 23+ year old prospects in the AHL, we can get an adequate second pairing defender for $2M and less term who won't command PP minutes.

 

[Semantics]

Neither Polak or Granberg are capable of playing top-4 minutes. It would be a train-wreck to go into a season like that.

Oh, good point. That would completely ruin our cup chances.

 

[thewave]

Why would playing them "kill their confidence" any more than keeping them in the AHL? Nobody's expecting them to Hjalmarsson-Oduya, or even Robidas-Polak. Nobody is going to be yelling at them when they make mistakes, and media aren't going to be running them out of town. It's a development season and these guys are 23 years old. We need to be breaking them into the NHL soon to make way for the next wave of young Marlies d-men. Either that or trade them, as most d-men that can't break into the league until they're 24-25 don't amount to much.

As for Franson, yes, he's a good d-man as evidenced by dCorsi. Who cares? We're not gunning for wins next year. It's a development year. If we really want to keep all our 23+ year old prospects in the AHL, we can get an adequate second pairing defender for $2M and less term who won't command PP minutes.

If we sign him for free and he puts up 2 solid seasons you can trade him again for more assets?

I'd sign Franson who cares. Trade Robidas and Polak. And bring Marlies up.

 

[Guy Boucher]

If your expectations are higher than a train wreck next year, you're gonna be one upset hombre... Leafs are going to be Buffalo bad for a few years.

That's not a conducive way to develop players.

 

[Semantics]

Players don't just need playing time to succeed. They also need support from their teammates. There's a reason teams like Detroit or Chicago continuously develop good players. Their young players are able to play on a team where they are given support and have the comfort of making mistakes without all of them ending up in the back of the net.

All of Chicago's d-men except Oduya saw significant time in the NHL by 23. Same with Detroit, except Ericsson who took until 24. And some of those Detroit players like Ericsson were only held back because the team was a contender with tons of depth and hard to break into - not the case with these Leafs.

If Granberg and Loov aren't ready for NHL duty on this team next year then they probably just aren't talented enough to ever make it. Either way, if you have to sign someone, you get someone cheaper and shorter term than Franson.

 

[Semantics]

That's not a conducive way to develop players.

You'd better tell CHI and LAK that those years of missing the playoffs ruined Doughty, Toews, Kane, Kopitar and they should trade the damaged goods ASAP.

 

[Semantics]

If we sign him for free and he puts up 2 solid seasons you can trade him again for more assets?

I have my doubts that any GM would give up much at the trade deadline for a 30 year old Franson, especially with everyone being well aware of what happened with Nashville.

And for him to put up solid seasons and pump up that trade value he'd need first PP time, which again, do we really want to give him that role over Rielly, Gardiner, Marner/Hanifin, Nylander, Kadri?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Why would playing them "kill their confidence" any more than keeping them in the AHL? Nobody's expecting them to Hjalmarsson-Oduya, or even Robidas-Polak. Nobody is going to be yelling at them when they make mistakes, and media aren't going to be running them out of town. It's a development season and these guys are 23 years old. We need to be breaking them into the NHL soon to make way for the next wave of young Marlies d-men. Either that or trade them, as most d-men that can't break into the league until they're 24-25 don't amount to much.

As for Franson, yes, he's a good d-man as evidenced by dCorsi. Who cares? We're not gunning for wins next year. It's a development year. If we really want to keep all our 23+ year old prospects in the AHL, we can get an adequate second pairing defender for $2M and less term who won't command PP minutes.

I agree with the majority of what you're saying until the bolded. Robidas who at this point is barely a top 6 garnered 3x3. The epitome of the kind of guy you describe (Orpik) got 5.5x5, if Cody will come back for a 3-4 x 4-4.5 I think you strongly consider it, he was always a good soldier, was undoubtedly liked by the guys in the room and always played hard. Plus if this rebuild can be turned around in the time of his deal he'd still be at an age where he can contribute as s vet.

 

[i1]

You'd better tell CHI and LAK that those years of missing the playoffs ruined Doughty, Toews, Kane, Kopitar and they should trade the damaged goods ASAP.

Toews, Kane, and Doughty all missed the playoffs once in their respective careers before this year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If we sign him for free and he puts up 2 solid seasons you can trade him again for more assets?

I'd sign Franson who cares. Trade Robidas and Polak. And bring Marlies up.

Franson was thoroughly unimpressive this year. The odds of him putting up 2 solid seasons are pretty slim IMO and I would much rather have Robidas and Polak around to mentor the young guys.

 

[Bluelines]

That's not a conducive way to develop players.

Agreed, the NHL is not a place to develop players. You should know how to play the game before you lace em up for the big team.

 

[Bluelines]

You'd better tell CHI and LAK that those years of missing the playoffs ruined Doughty, Toews, Kane, Kopitar and they should trade the damaged goods ASAP.

Do we have a prospect in the Doughty, Toews, Kane, Kopitar category? Special players are special because they are special ..