NL MVP is...

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Votto won't get the respect he deserves until he retires. The Joe Thornton of baseball.

71 xbh's, 106 runs, 134 bb's, 1.032 ops. A season Bonds would be proud of.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Giambi is nothing like Votto lol. They share a high walk rate, other wise they are very different hitters. Giambi also took steroids, which probably contributed to his rapid decline.

?

Giambi played until he was 43 And put up a 128 ops+ at 37.

 

[Virtanen18]

I hate when people don't consider players from bad teams and go "I'm old school". No, actually you're just dumb.

 

[Bjorn Le]

?

Giambi played until he was 43 And put up a 128 ops+ at 37.

That doesn't make them similar players, especially given Votto hasn't reached 43 let alone 37 yet.

And I don't think you can deny Giambi declined significantly from his peak. His only positive WAR season after 37 was a 1.2 rating, and after 2002 he went from an elite MVP candidate to a simply "good" player for a few seasons. Votto won the MVP in 2010, and he's been MVP caliber ever since.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Most players decline in their early 30's. Giambi was an elite player into his late 30's. Saying he massively declined in his 30's is factually incorrect.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Most players decline in their early 30's. Giambi was an elite player into his late 30's. Saying he massively declined in his 30's is factually incorrect.

Elite is an extremely strong word. He had a 2.4 WAR season as a 37. That was 87th in the league. That is not elite by any common definition. As a 36 year old, he had a 0.7 WAR season, as a 35 year old, 3.0, at 34, 4.2, at 33, 0.0, at 32, 5.0, at 31, 6.6, and at 29 and 30 he had MVP caliber seasons.

Pretty clear that's a massive step down, and he stopped being at elite player at either 31/32 (I definitely don't think a 5.0 WAR seasons is "elite"). Don't really know why you don't think that's a significant decline.

 

[c9777666]

Feel bad for Votto but at least Stanton was thereabouts. Goldy on the other hand was a clear notch below Votto/Stanton.

Goldy, god bless him, wasn't even the best player on his own team, let alone the NL West

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Elite is an extremely strong word. He had a 2.4 WAR season as a 37. That was 87th in the league. That is not elite by any common definition. As a 36 year old, he had a 0.7 WAR season, as a 35 year old, 3.0, at 34, 4.2, at 33, 0.0, at 32, 5.0, at 31, 6.6, and at 29 and 30 he had MVP caliber seasons.

Pretty clear that's a massive step down, and he stopped being at elite player at either 31/32 (I definitely don't think a 5.0 WAR seasons is "elite"). Don't really know why you don't think that's a significant decline.

He was still an elite hitter at 37, regardless of his WAR. His defense declined, which is why it was what it was at 37, but he still had a great year at the plate that year. Just because he declined from what he was in the early 2000's (which was significantly better than what Votto did this year; which was great in its own right) doesn't mean he severely declined. He just aged appropriately.

 

[Bjorn Le]

He was still an elite hitter at 37, regardless of his WAR. His defense declined, which is why it was what it was at 37, but he still had a great year at the plate that year. Just because he declined from what he was in the early 2000's (which was significantly better than what Votto did this year; which was great in its own right) doesn't mean he severely declined. He just aged appropriately.

Once more, how was it elite? Even if we don't use WAR, the rest of his stats say good, not elite. He was 27th in OPS, just ahead of "stalwart" hitters like Brian Gilles and Jermaine Dye, and behind other "excellent" hitters like Brad Hawpe and Aubrey Huff. If we forgot who Giambi was in the early 2000s, I don't know how you can say he was elite. He hit for low average, had a very good OBP, but really only an above average slugging % for a power hitter. 32 homeruns is good but not elite. I'm not saying it wasn't a good season, but it was a far cry from the MVP caliber hitter he was in the early 200s.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

When you compare it to seasons where he almost had a .500 obp, then yeah, it's a drop off. But it's really unfair to expect him to maintain that. Not everyone is Bonds. 128 obp+ at 37 is really good, regardless of what others did.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Regardless, Votto and Giambi are very different hitters.