NL MVP is...

Your vote for NL MVP is?


  • Total voters
    43

darko

Registered User
Feb 16, 2009
70,265
7,786
Again, this would be an argument if Votto was several WAR ahead of the next guy. He wasn't. He, Arenado, and Stanton all had nearly identical seasons.

If 3 guys have identical seasons and one of them carries his team to the playoffs on the back of that season and the others don't, people are going to vote for that guy for an award given to the player who is 'most valuable to his team'. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp.

Obviously there have been many horrible selections throughout the history of the award. Arenado wouldn't be one of them.


Well that's just stupid. If 3 guys had identical season then they both gave it equally to help their team make it. Just because 2 of them have inferior teammates all of a sudden those identical seasons are no more?
 

robert terwilliger

the bart, the
Nov 14, 2005
24,059
511
sw florida
it's not "hard to grasp" it's just an insular way that writers look at it.

team record should have no place in any of the individual awards. i don't give a shit if the team won 150 games or lost them all.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,417
Vancouver, BC
Well that's just stupid. If 3 guys had identical season then they both gave it equally to help their team make it. Just because 2 of them have inferior teammates all of a sudden those identical seasons are no more?

it's not "hard to grasp" it's just an insular way that writers look at it.

team record should have no place in any of the individual awards. i don't give a **** if the team won 150 games or lost them all.

You're just deciding what you want the award to be, not what it is and how it's always been awarded.

This isn't the Most Outstanding Player award. This isn't the Biggest WAR Award.

For an award for the 'Most Valuable Player', it is completely fair for voters to place a higher 'value' on a great season that made a great contribution to a great result for a franchise rather than one that did nothing to change the fortunes of a bad last place team. Arenado's season had far more 'value' to his franchise than Votto's did.
 

robert terwilliger

the bart, the
Nov 14, 2005
24,059
511
sw florida
and you're just deciding that you'd place a premium on a player based on the quality of his teammates. that is how it's always been awarded. it's been awarded poorly. that's the point.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,417
Vancouver, BC
and you're just deciding that you'd place a premium on a player based on the quality of his teammates. that is how it's always been awarded. it's been awarded poorly. that's the point.

The nature of an 'MVP' award - in every sport - is that the voters will take into account both the excellence of the player and how that excellence contributed to success or achievement of his team on the field. Again, this isn't the Most Outstanding Player award.

It's obviously been awarded poorly many times in the past when it's just been given to the guy with the most RBIs on a team that made the playoffs - Jeff Burroughs or George Bell or whoever - when oftentimes that player wasn't even the best player on his own team. No argument there.

But that has nothing to do with this discussion. When Nolan Arenado has a 7.2 WAR season leading his team back to the playoffs and Joey Votto has a 7.5 WAR season on a team finishing in last place, there is no statistically significant difference between the players, Arenado has been more valuable to his team, and is a better choice.

You can call it a vote based on his teammates being good. You can also call it a vote based on him getting hits and making plays that actually mattered to a team in contention.

And as much as you might complain about it, it's always going to be like this. A player who has a big season helping his team to great success will always be a bigger deal than a player who has a big season for a terrible team.
 

darko

Registered User
Feb 16, 2009
70,265
7,786
How has 1 player been more valuable to his team when he has slightly inferior stats? Oh that's right he plays with Charlie Blackmon.
 

JWK

Report Spam @JWK on Twitter Plz
Mar 27, 2010
21,074
7,355
303
I changed my pick to Votto when I saw his insane stat of reaching base this year, think it was like 150/162 games. As many people have said (in the past with Trout too) it’s not Votto’s fault his teammates are bad.

Oh and Blackmon is the Rockies MVP, not Nolan. I’m sure Arenado will still get wayyyy more votes than Blackmon though.
 

Filthy Dangles

Registered User*
Oct 23, 2014
28,355
39,714
as expected.

Joey Votto hits 36 HR, walks almost twice as much as he K's, slashes 320/450/578/1000 and doesn't even win the SS. bbwaa is a joke.
 

JWK

Report Spam @JWK on Twitter Plz
Mar 27, 2010
21,074
7,355
303
Nightengale put Votto #5 on his ballot, what an idiot.

Tracy Ringolsby put Stanton #6 in his ballot, also an idiot.
 

darko

Registered User
Feb 16, 2009
70,265
7,786
Feel bad for Votto but at least Stanton was thereabouts. Goldy on the other hand was a clear notch below Votto/Stanton.
 

Tecumseh

Scorched Earth
Oct 20, 2012
9,298
704
Southbridge, MA
Nightengale put Votto #5 on his ballot, what an idiot.

Tracy Ringolsby put Stanton #6 in his ballot, also an idiot.

Nightengale: “For me, simply, it's the Most Valuable Player award and not the most outstanding player award. The Reds would have finished last with or without Joey Votto. I give a lot of weight to players whose teams earn playoff berths or at least are in contention.

"I didn't vote for Giancarlo Stanton first either and picked the player who led the Arizona Diamondbacks to the playoffs."

Agreed. People like this shouldn’t be voting at all.
 

rangerssharks414

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
32,311
1,648
Long Island, NY
Nightengale: “For me, simply, it's the Most Valuable Player award and not the most outstanding player award. The Reds would have finished last with or without Joey Votto. I give a lot of weight to players whose teams earn playoff berths or at least are in contention.

"I didn't vote for Giancarlo Stanton first either and picked the player who led the Arizona Diamondbacks to the playoffs."

Agreed. People like this shouldn’t be voting at all.

Wow...

It isn't Stanton's fault or Votto's fault that their respective teams had no pitching.
 

BMOK33

Registered User
Oct 5, 2005
26,434
4,044
Feel bad for Votto but at least Stanton was thereabouts. Goldy on the other hand was a clear notch below Votto/Stanton.

Still think because he's on a winning team he should have gotten it. An MVP is meaningless on a team who doesn't make the playoffs or loses 90-100 games. As Billy Beane said "unlsss you win the final game of the season nobody gives a ****"
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
18,786
14,617
Toronto, ON
Still think because he's on a winning team he should have gotten it. An MVP is meaningless on a team who doesn't make the playoffs or loses 90-100 games. As Billy Beane said "unlsss you win the final game of the season nobody gives a ****"

Well, Goldschmidt and the Diamondbacks got smoked in the playoffs so I guess he didn't really need to be on the team for that. Didn't make any difference. Only Astros players should be eligible for AL and NL MVP awards.
 

JWK

Report Spam @JWK on Twitter Plz
Mar 27, 2010
21,074
7,355
303
Nightengale: “For me, simply, it's the Most Valuable Player award and not the most outstanding player award. The Reds would have finished last with or without Joey Votto. I give a lot of weight to players whose teams earn playoff berths or at least are in contention.

"I didn't vote for Giancarlo Stanton first either and picked the player who led the Arizona Diamondbacks to the playoffs."

Agreed. People like this shouldn’t be voting at all.

Nightengale put emphasis on players from playoff teams and still picked the wrong one as his MVP.

Scott Miller from BR did the same thing, putting Votto #5 and Goldy #1.
 

darko

Registered User
Feb 16, 2009
70,265
7,786
Still think because he's on a winning team he should have gotten it. An MVP is meaningless on a team who doesn't make the playoffs or loses 90-100 games. As Billy Beane said "unlsss you win the final game of the season nobody gives a ****"


So what you are saying is that Goldy should've won because he had better teamates? In that case Seager should've been a lock because Dodgers won 100+ games.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->