i am personally not sold on merrill and have not been since he has been here.. but i think patience is more important... with a defenseman obviously... nothing will surprise me with merrill meaning if he ends being a flop or a solid nhl defensman. if i had to put my money on it i say he is gonna be a flop relatively speaking.
Speculation: NJD Offseason Part IV
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i am personally not sold on merrill and have not been since he has been here.. but i think patience is more important... with a defenseman obviously... nothing will surprise me with merrill meaning if he ends being a flop or a solid nhl defensman. if i had to put my money on it i say he is gonna be a flop relatively speaking.
Apparently Isles are going to be in on Stamkos as major players...
I personally think he would be a better fit here. He wants to be 1C and unless Tavares is sliding over... We can also pay him without having to move pieces, and were right near NYC if that was a problem of his.
Stamkos, Demers/Goligoski, Helm/3rd liner is a nasty off-season.
Blandisi - Stamkos - Henrique
Cammalleri - Zajac - Palmieri
I think Blandisi would be fantastic with Stamkos.
I personally think he would be a better fit here. He wants to be 1C and unless Tavares is sliding over... We can also pay him without having to move pieces, and were right near NYC if that was a problem of his.
Stamkos, Demers/Goligoski, Helm/3rd liner is a nasty off-season.
Blandisi - Stamkos - Henrique
Cammalleri - Zajac - Palmieri
I think Blandisi would be fantastic with Stamkos.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
According to who? The Islanders? They have the same issues that we do in attracting big name UFA's and I doubt that changes with Stamkos.
Feed Me A Stray Cat
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I just get can't behind Stamkos for what he's going to command. Probably in the realm of $10MM+ per season for a long time.
Okposo would more likely be in the high 6s/low 7s. Okposo's playmaking mentality would be a good complement to our current set of shoot-first forwards too.
Okposo would more likely be in the high 6s/low 7s. Okposo's playmaking mentality would be a good complement to our current set of shoot-first forwards too.
According to an nhl.com beat writer with multiple other sources...
Its on the main board.
And Okposo is a good chase too but from what Isles fams say he has zero hockey smarts. Might not be as good without Tavares...
You pay Stamkos whatever he wants up to 10.5M.
Not often does a player like that make it to UFA and we desperately need scoring. Doesnt matter if he is overpaid, you overpay for that kind of talent.
Not to mention cap will rise and we have tremendous cap space. And if cap doesnt rise we wont be as worse off as some other major contenders.
If you dont shell out for a player like Stamkos because you are worried about overpayment, then you aren't an NHL GM in the cap world. Sorry. Shero will surely give Stamkos a lot of money if he inquires. He would be absolutely dumb to not
I didn't mean that they won't try to get him. Obviously several teams will be after him. I just meant I doubt they succeed. Garth Snow has been trying for years to throw money at players but they usually just end up with table scraps.
While it would be exciting to get a player like that, not for that amount of money. It would have been one thing if the Devils landed one the first two picks of this draft. But you look at what's in the organization -- both in terms of NHL and prospect level, including whoever we get in the draft -- and it's doubtful that even if he performs to expectations for most of the deal that the team will do significantly better than it has the past couple of years.
He's also one of those players that if he isn't scoring a lot of goals, he's not doing much else. For a team that doesn't have much else, it would be a huge disaster if his scoring drops significantly. Not a gamble worth taking for this team, regardless of what the cap situation is now.
At most, a player like that helps the Devils get to where Minnesota is. Better than what they are now, but a team that hits a wall eventually.
If we've learned anything from signing Kovalchuk, watching the Rangers pre and immediately post 05 lockout, watching the Wild fail after the great Parise-Suter homecoming, etc., it's that signing guys to massive contracts rarely ends up being a good move. Who in recent memory has looked back on handing out these deals a couple years later and been happy they did it? Washington with Ovechkin? The Penguins with Crosby and Malkin? Chicago with Kane and Toews?
But look at how the Pens have struggled to ice a competitive bottom six for years. Look at how Chicago once again has to sell off good players because they're paying 21 million to two players.
Even in 2012, when we had 3 of probably the top 20 forwards in the league, the team didn't really take off until the bottom six was solidified with the additions of Ponikarovsky and Bernier and the return of Zajac.
Having a solid lineup from top to bottom is so important to competing, and giving $10 million to one player just makes it so much harder to do that.
We could sign Stamkos for $10 million, and I'd probably be excited about it. Stamkos and by some miracle a healthy Cammalleri would almost certainly make us a playoff team, especially if Henrique and Palmieri could repeat their seasons. But I can't help but feel like at some point we would regret that contract.
But look at how the Pens have struggled to ice a competitive bottom six for years. Look at how Chicago once again has to sell off good players because they're paying 21 million to two players.
Even in 2012, when we had 3 of probably the top 20 forwards in the league, the team didn't really take off until the bottom six was solidified with the additions of Ponikarovsky and Bernier and the return of Zajac.
Having a solid lineup from top to bottom is so important to competing, and giving $10 million to one player just makes it so much harder to do that.
We could sign Stamkos for $10 million, and I'd probably be excited about it. Stamkos and by some miracle a healthy Cammalleri would almost certainly make us a playoff team, especially if Henrique and Palmieri could repeat their seasons. But I can't help but feel like at some point we would regret that contract.
JimEIV
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Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
I don't really think bringing up Kovalchuk in that regard is fair
dude nearly led us to a Cup on a broken back
Giving out contracts like that makes sense under certain circumstances, for certain teams and for certain players. In the case of Pittsburgh, it obviously made sense to do it for Crosby and Malkin, and, whatdayaknow they're a good shot to win the Cup this year. Their ability to get a good bottom six apparently had nothing to do with how much their top four players (Crosby, Malking, Letang and Kessel) are getting paid.
There are maybe two players in the league that it would make sense for the Devils, as currently constructed, to shell out that kind of money to: Crosby and McDavid. Crosby, when he's healthy could probably make an AHL roster with a good goalie a playoff team. McDavid should be there very shortly.
The issue isn't the $10M/season which some people are making it out to be. It's Stamkos the player. People have varying opinions on him because he has regressed some and has injury risk. If McDavid was a UFA there isn't one person on this board (or in the world) who would say he isn't worth it.
My point is that Stamkos very well may be worth that price (or close to it) for a certain team or at least worth the gamble. Toronto is one that comes to mind.
He could score 40 goals a season for the next five years, and the Devils could very well still be a bubble playoff team. If he drops to a 20-25 goal scorer, it would prove disastrous.
Brooklyndevil
Registered User
How about if the Devils trade the 11th pick + one of our next year 2nd rounders and this year's 3rd for their 4th.
We draft Tkachuk.
Sign Schlemko/Demers & Helm.
Cammy-Zajac-Tkachuk
Zacha-Henrique-Palm
Boucher-Helm-DSP
Not sure if the value is there for the Oilers. However, if they want to draft a defensemen it makes total sense to trade down. At the 11th, pick there still will be 3 to 5 good d-men available.
Trying to keep Severson out of the discussion
Now if the Oilers are taking the BAP, than they probable pick Tkachuk and look to trade one of their current forwards for a defensemen. And that trade goes down toilet.
We draft Tkachuk.
Sign Schlemko/Demers & Helm.
Cammy-Zajac-Tkachuk
Zacha-Henrique-Palm
Boucher-Helm-DSP
Not sure if the value is there for the Oilers. However, if they want to draft a defensemen it makes total sense to trade down. At the 11th, pick there still will be 3 to 5 good d-men available.
Trying to keep Severson out of the discussion
Now if the Oilers are taking the BAP, than they probable pick Tkachuk and look to trade one of their current forwards for a defensemen. And that trade goes down toilet.
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I hear you, things go crazy when free agency is involved, but I think it had a chance to go off the tracks crazy.
But I think Tampa's success without him(and granted I'm sure they would have liked him out there in the first 3 games this series) may lesson the desire of a team who I thought had to go all in to re sign him. And that was compounded by the Drouin situation. Now Stamkos is out, Drouin is back and performing very well, I could def see them if the price does go above $10 mil being content to use that cap space somewhere else.
It's not Kovalchuk the player I have issue with. I loved Kovalchuk the player, and despite his faults, every team that wants to win a championship needs a player like him. Someone that is good enough at scoring goals to the point where they can sometimes simply will them in.
Stamkos could be that player (though his playoff performance hasn't lived up to that to date, if you're the kind of person that believes in that sort of thing). The problem is Marian Gaborik can also be that player, and Gaborik makes half what Stamkos will get. If I'm building a team, I know which one I'm going with. Stamkos may be the better player, but if Gaborik stops scoring, his contract hurts a lot less than if Stamkos stops scoring.
I agree it does for certain teams at certain times. As I said above, I think championship teams need these types of players, and if you have a roster which you think can win the cup, and that's what it takes to add the goal scorer you need to do it, then fine. But even with Stamkos, nobody is picking the Devils to win the cup next year. By the time we assemble a team around him that could win it, he could be declining, his salaray could be hurting our ability to retain some guys, and it could be a disaster of a signing.
In the case of the Pens, obviously they aren't just supposed to let either of those guys go, but even with Crosby and Malkin, they haven't been serious cup contenders in probably 4-5 years, and honestly they're still not as deep a team as I would want them to be if I were their GM. Don't forget that earlier this year, they looked like they might not even make it in. Yes, they're capable of being one of the best teams in the league, but their inability to spend from top to bottom has certainly hurt their consistency since their cup win in '08
If there were a sure method to build a championship team, then everyone would do it. the reality is there are too many unpredictable factors, too much chance, too many things going or not going your way that make the difference when it comes to building a winner. Because of that, you should always strive to have the most flexibility you can. Signing $10 million for 7 years contracts is about one of the least flexible things you can do.
Feed Me A Stray Cat
Registered User
An interesting comparison in this discussion is Ovechkin. He had a stretch at 25-26 where it looked like he was regressing a bit, then he rebounded to 50+ goals per season.
Ovechkin never stopped shooting though. He's been at 10+ shots/60 at ES every NHL season. Stamkos' shot generation tumbled this past season.
Ovechkin never stopped shooting though. He's been at 10+ shots/60 at ES every NHL season. Stamkos' shot generation tumbled this past season.
Ovechkin plays much more of a power forward game than Stamkos does. That lends itself to continuing to generate shots and chances even when the pretty goals and the perfect shots aren't there.
If at any point Stamkos can't generate chances through his speed/skill or his shot is off, his effectiveness tumbles. I watched a decent bit of the lightning this season, and you could tell there were games where he just didn't have the ability to fight through whatever combination of good defense/himself being off to continue to generate shots. He also relies more heavily than Ovechkin on good setups from his teammates.
If he's getting paid like I think he will, it doesn't take a whole lot of off nights to not be worth his contract.
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I still maintain the Stamkos is the biggest name to ever hit UFA in the NHL. Probably the best too, certainly the youngest.
The two biggest up to this point were Kovalchuk and Parise. Both were 27 at the time of their UFA. Parise actually was to be 28 by the time he played his first game on that contract. And Stamkos is only 26 right now. He's also a first overall pick. Pretty much every other big UFA up to this point was not as good or was much older, due to the UFA age being 31 under the old CBA pre-2005.
I think he'll get something huge because of that. Though maybe there won't be 20 teams in the running like there was for Parise, due to cap.
The two biggest up to this point were Kovalchuk and Parise. Both were 27 at the time of their UFA. Parise actually was to be 28 by the time he played his first game on that contract. And Stamkos is only 26 right now. He's also a first overall pick. Pretty much every other big UFA up to this point was not as good or was much older, due to the UFA age being 31 under the old CBA pre-2005.
I think he'll get something huge because of that. Though maybe there won't be 20 teams in the running like there was for Parise, due to cap.
Probably too far to drop if I'm the Oilers. Even if they want a defenseman, dropping down to 11 means they wouldn't necessarily get their choice of D. Typically if a team is moving down, they're making a calculated risk of still landing the guy they would have taken at their original spot.
Drafting an 18 year old D isn't going to solve the Oilers blueline problems overnight or even within a couple years. If I'm them, I still just draft Tkachuk/Dubois and then trade Nugent-Hopkins for a proven NHL defender.
If Edmonton really wants to trade down, I think Montreal could trump that offer relatively easily.
He also had two bad coaches in between. Jon Cooper does not seem like a bad coach.
Anyway the Crosby and Malkin contracts are great contracts. What's less great is paying $5M to Fleury, the Kunitz and Dupuis contracts, and the fact that the Penguins haven't had young players to replace their pricey veterans. That's the price of success. Your elite players are always worth paying that sort of money to. Your non-elite players aren't, and championship teams rarely recognize the difference.
Regarding Pittsburgh almost missing the playoffs - they had a bad coach. Sullivan came in and changed things around and the team immediately began playing much better.
Now what is less good about Crosby and Malkin is that both guys have trouble staying healthy. Crosby's been healthy the last 3 years, but Malkin hasn't played 80 games in a season since 2009 - he's missed at least 13 games every year since then. Letang has also missed lots of time with injuries. Fleury's been terrible in the playoffs and the Penguins just kept sticking by him.
NJDevs26
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Zdeno Chara might have been the most important outside FA signing ever, certainly post-cap. Well and Niedermayer too
But yeah among forwards Stamkos is the biggest name. And unlike with prior FA's you don't have to give him nine thousand years on the contract to get him to sign. So it comes down to money and who knows what the money's going to be like with this health/production ? hanging over him. Of course all it takes is one desperate team to offer a 7-70 contract and that's what the market will bear.And the Rangers pre-lockout were signing FA's 31+. The age limit on FA's is much different post-cap. Combine FA at 26-27 with a 7-8 year contract limit and you can't really compare past FA to now.
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Emperoreddy
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