NHL to Seattle Volume XIII - UPDATE 12/7 NHL will accept Seattle application - Expansion fee $650 M

[LadyStanley]

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Not a matter of if, but a matter of when at this point, barring a collapse in potential owner interest. At this point, I'm just more curious what the realignment in the West will be whenever Seattle gets added, as there's no obvious flip that makes perfect sense for time zone reasons barring a beaten into the ground conversation about the Yotes to Houston.

 

[gstommylee]

Not a matter of if, but a matter of when at this point, barring a collapse in potential owner interest. At this point, I'm just more curious what the realignment in the West will be whenever Seattle gets added, as there's no obvious flip that makes perfect sense for time zone reasons barring a beaten into the ground conversation about the Yotes to Houston.

Coyotes to central division is the more likely case imo. I don't see how it make sense to do any other adjustment. Some think Edmonton and Calgary should go to central and Colorado goes to pacific but colorado is further east than the Alberta teams.

 

[Melrose Munch]

If the Flames keep demanding tax dollars to fund a new arena then Seattle can have them. If a group can privately fund a $600 project then Flames' owners can do the same here.

Of course they can. But do they need to ?

The guy owning Flames can either move them himself to Seattle and make as much money as he's making in Calgary or he can sell them for a hefty profit to another guy in Seattle or Houston.

I don't want to see the Flames move because I know how much it sucks (I lost the Nordiques) but you gotta realize that Seattle and Houston opening their doors changes the perspective of options for the Flames and suddenly the teams owners have the upper hand.

Remember when Katz went to Seattle to see things while he was waiting for a positive answer from Edmonton. You may say it did nothing, but I would say someone on city side probably did **** their pants just at the thought of losing the team.

I already realize this and really don't care. If the Flames don't want to build and pay for a new arena they can do whatever or go anywhere they want. It may suck but that's the way the league has set things up. Screwing taxpayers seems to be part of the NHL's plan and so be it.

P.S. I used to live in Quebec City and feel your pain. I also think the way the league is treating the city is unconscionable and horrific. That should be a lesson for people who think the league is anything but a whiny group of greedheads who don't give a crap about the fans.

But then again, of course, Katz and Co., after getting outed by local Seattle media, had to go back to Edmonton with their head between their legs and having to apologize with that full-page ad in the local paper.

Mike, I get your argument and I'm sure the majority of folks in Calgary probably are of the same ilk. That said, though, the building up there I think is approaching the end of its serviceable life and did suffer serious damage in the floods. So really, this is a conversation that frankly your region was probably going to have to have in another 5-10 years anyway with or without the Flames being involved in it.

Off my soapbox, Bob McKenzie now has a big story up on TSN:

It’s Seattle’s time - Article - TSN

Well if the flames go, the city can build the arena and own it. They can build a smaller one too.

 

[StreetHawk]

The morning sports show in Vancouver brought in a journalist from Seattle and he said that there isn't a buzz about the reno to the key.

Talked about it being a better music facility, but that the people if Seattle want NBA team first over NHL.

Also said no buzz due to no pro hockey team since WWI.

I do believe that it would just be a matter of time before an NBA team returns to Seattle once the arena is complete.

Then it's going to be interesting to see how the nhl fares against Seahawks, Sonic's, Mariners, Sounders, and Huskies of college for football as the college is right in town, not 45 minutes away.

 

[gstommylee]

Seattle is not a relocation candidate if any team has to move. There is no temporary venue for a relocated team to play.

 

[gstommylee]

The morning sports show in Vancouver brought in a journalist from Seattle and he said that there isn't a buzz about the reno to the key.

Talked about it being a better music facility, but that the people if Seattle want NBA team first over NHL.

Also said no buzz due to no pro hockey team since WWI.

I do believe that it would just be a matter of time before an NBA team returns to Seattle once the arena is complete.

Then it's going to be interesting to see how the nhl fares against Seahawks, Sonic's, Mariners, Sounders, and Huskies of college for football as the college is right in town, not 45 minutes away.

What is that person even talking about? No buzz about the reno to key? 600m dollar redo of the key while keeping the roofline is a big deal. Seattle and the approved arena has been talked about all over the sports media in the US and canada. The fans are excited at a pro NHL team coming to seattle. In fact all the recent council meetings on the OVG arena plan has been filled with the hockey crowd. So there is buzz about the remodel.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Coyotes to central division is the more likely case imo. I don't see how it make sense to do any other adjustment. Some think Edmonton and Calgary should go to central and Colorado goes to pacific but colorado is further east than the Alberta teams.

Time zones are a bigger issue for Arizona, though. For the majority of the season, Phoenix is on mountain time, but during the playoffs they'd be on the same time as the Pacific teams, which would potentially be a scheduling issue that the league has tried to avoid in the current alignment. Come playoff time, a Central Division with Phoenix would be in three time zones. More than mildly annoying from a TV schedule perspective. Would be a non-issue if they dropped the divisional playoff format and just seeded 1-8 again.

It wouldn't be the best alternative, but moving both Alberta teams to the Central and Colorado to the Pacific would at least keep both divisions as permanently two time zone groupings, even if it'd split up the far western Canadian trio. As a side bonus though, it'd build Calgary/Edmonton's rivalry with Winnipeg and replace Vancouver's with Seattle, though.

 

[viper0220]

There are questions that are in my mind, hopefully you guys will answer them. Let's go:

Will Quebec city ever get a team? I am thinking no, what do you guys think?

Do the owners share the expansion fee or the relocation fee with the players? If the answer is no, will that be a sticking point in the next CBA negations?

Will the NHL do all the expansions and relocation's before the next CBA expires because they might have to share the expansion fee and the relocation fee with the players?(this is assuming that the NHL does not share the expansion fee and the relocation fee with players, I honestly don't if they do or don't.)

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

Since no one has posted this yet, there will be a live webstream of the Durkan MOU signing - you can watch it above beginning at around 3:15pm ET/12:15pm PT.

 

[Mike Jones]

Well if the flames go, the city can build the arena and own it. They can build a smaller one too.

Without the insane demands made by the Flames the city could probably make a decent profit off an arena (I think this is how things work in Kansas City). The city could feed the profits back into their revenues and receive property taxes from the same property. Win/win.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

There are questions that are in my mind, hopefully you guys will answer them. Let's go:

Will Quebec city ever get a team? I am thinking no, what do you guys think?

Do the owners share the expansion fee or the relocation fee with the players? If the answer is no, will that be a sticking point in the next CBA negations?

Will the NHL do all the expansions and relocation's before the next CBA expires because they might have to share the expansion fee and the relocation fee with the players?(this is assuming that the NHL does not share the expansion fee and the relocation fee with players, I honestly don't if they do or don't.)

Regarding Quebec, I think that the NHL will eventually return there, but the league is clearly in no rush and obviously wants to save them as a potential emergency relocation option. In the event that [insert team here] falls through on a sale or an arena deal and the owner just gives up and wants out, the NHL will need a landing spot for a team that could go from nothing to a brand new organization in the span of just a single offseason. I'm of the opinion that there are plenty of great potential markets, like Seattle, Portland, and Houston, but really you need a rabid fanbase already in place to do something that quickly, and that's only the case for an untapped Canadian market. Quebec City is the option there much like Winnipeg was for the Thrashers.

Regarding the relocation fees, no, that's all the ownership side of things as far as I'm aware. Especially if the NHL wants to add more than just one more team, that's a whole lot of dough that the players are missing out on, so I'd be shocked if they didn't attempt to get a piece of that in the next CBA. Good luck getting the owners to agree to that, though.

But it's obvious that the NHL's modus operandi is to just lockout with each new CBA negotiation, not like that'll be the specific cause of the next one (though they might claim it is).

 

[cheswick]

Out of curiosity, anyone know what their WNBA team will be doing while the arena is being renovated.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Out of curiosity, anyone know what their WNBA team will be doing while the arena is being renovated.

Sno answered that earlier

 

[StreetHawk]

What is that person even talking about? No buzz about the reno to key? 600m dollar redo of the key while keeping the roofline is a big deal. Seattle and the approved arena has been talked about all over the sports media in the US and canada. The fans are excited at a pro NHL team coming to seattle. In fact all the recent council meetings on the OVG arena plan has been filled with the hockey crowd. So there is buzz about the remodel.

Probably cause the people in Seattle want NBA first over NHL. This news about key doesn't come with NBA returning.

Again, I think once the arena is down and personally I think the sodo option is better, the NBA will return.

Then it's game on for the NHL to compete with everything else in that market. Seattle, like vancouver offers a lot of outdoor activities, in addition to all of the sports options.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Probably cause the people in Seattle want NBA first over NHL. This news about key doesn't come with NBA returning.

Again, I think once the arena is down and personally I think the sodo option is better, the NBA will return.

Then it's game on for the NHL to compete with everything else in that market. Seattle, like vancouver offers a lot of outdoor activities, in addition to all of the sports options.

NBA ISN'T INTERESTED at the present time, Street, and for all indications, SODO is DOA, now that this has passed SCC

 

[gstommylee]

Time zones are a bigger issue for Arizona, though. For the majority of the season, Phoenix is on mountain time, but during the playoffs they'd be on the same time as the Pacific teams, which would potentially be a scheduling issue that the league has tried to avoid in the current alignment. Come playoff time, a Central Division with Phoenix would be in three time zones. More than mildly annoying from a TV schedule perspective. Would be a non-issue if they dropped the divisional playoff format and just seeded 1-8 again.

It wouldn't be the best alternative, but moving both Alberta teams to the Central and Colorado to the Pacific would at least keep both divisions as permanently two time zone groupings, even if it'd split up the far western Canadian trio. As a side bonus though, it'd build Calgary/Edmonton's rivalry with Winnipeg and replace Vancouver's with Seattle, though.

That would just be asking Calagary and Edmonton to travel further for a divisional game and i don't think the two teams would like that. The closing US team for both of them would be Seattle.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

Probably cause the people in Seattle want NBA first over NHL. This news about key doesn't come with NBA returning.

Again, I think once the arena is down and personally I think the sodo option is better, the NBA will return.

Then it's game on for the NHL to compete with everything else in that market. Seattle, like vancouver offers a lot of outdoor activities, in addition to all of the sports options.

NBA ISN'T INTERESTED at the present time, Street, and for all indications, SODO is DOA, now that this has passed SCC

StreetHawk, you are correct about the general fan mindset here in Seattle regarding NBA vs. NHL. This is why you have a large bloc of fans, and certain members of the Seattle media, who have not reacted very well to the news of the KeyArena plans. Those people will be hard to convert, that's for sure, and this is why those of us who are supporting the project are going to have to keep Oak View's feet to the fire. Hutch, you are probably correct as well on the future of SoDo, it is probably dead for the forseeable future. Maybe for good, we shall see.

Cheswick, see my post #386 for some guidance on the Storm. I should also add to that BTW that a couple of other sites that might be doable for them should the UW not materialize would be ShoWare Center in Kent and Xfinity Arena up in Everett. A last-ditch option should all others fail might be SPU's gym, Brougham Pavilion - which is actually their practice facility - but that's a very small venue that probably wouldn't be large enough to host WNBA games.

 

[SeattleSharksFan]

The morning sports show in Vancouver brought in a journalist from Seattle and he said that there isn't a buzz about the reno to the key.
Talked about it being a better music facility, but that the people if Seattle want NBA team first over NHL.
Also said no buzz due to no pro hockey team since WWI.

Yeah, I think a lot of the muted reaction stems from how polarizing the arena issue has been amongst the sports fans of Seattle. Sonics fans seem to view KeyArena and that entire process with a lot of skepticism after Hansen's SoDo street vacation was voted down last year. Much of their reaction to Monday's deal was predictably negative, even though at this point OVG seems more likely to attract NBA long-term than Hansen is based on many comparisons (connections and good standing with the league; alignment with local government; $). My hope for the NHL in Seattle is that these hard feelings about arena choice, i.e. the "SoDo or bust" mentality, subside as the new Key takes shape.

 

[gstommylee]

Probably cause the people in Seattle want NBA first over NHL. This news about key doesn't come with NBA returning.

Again, I think once the arena is down and personally I think the sodo option is better, the NBA will return.

Then it's game on for the NHL to compete with everything else in that market. Seattle, like vancouver offers a lot of outdoor activities, in addition to all of the sports options.

People need stop with the attitude of Key arena redevelopment will screw us permanently. Its not going be the same building not by a long shot. People need to accept that sodo arena is dead cause no the leagues aren't going to be giving them teams. Hansen has blocked the only chance of Sodo arena from EVER being built by refusing to add a billionaire replacement for balmer and adding a NHL group. That's on him not the SCC and yet people blame SCC for screwing Seattle out of a NBA team.

The reason why there is no NBA returning in the near future there isn't one available. And the only way we will ever get the soncis back is build an arena on spec. That is exactly what OVG is doing. People need to put the past in the past and move on.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

Without the insane demands made by the Flames the city could probably make a decent profit off an arena (I think this is how things work in Kansas City). The city could feed the profits back into their revenues and receive property taxes from the same property. Win/win.

Which by the way is essentially how Seattle's Initiative 91 is set up. Mike, if I can ask, what exactly are the Flames demanding in terms of a public/team contribution? They looking for a full handout or are they willing to do public/private partnership?

 

[CorbeauNoir]

Which by the way is essentially how Seattle's Initiative 91 is set up. Mike, if I can ask, what exactly are the Flames demanding in terms of a public/team contribution? They looking for a full handout or are they willing to do public/private partnership?

(Mods, delete previous post)

View media item 893

 

[powerstuck]

Which by the way is essentially how Seattle's Initiative 91 is set up. Mike, if I can ask, what exactly are the Flames demanding in terms of a public/team contribution? They looking for a full handout or are they willing to do public/private partnership?

As far as know both city and team agree on a 50% ish participation.

City wants the team to OWN the arena and pay taxes + ticket surcharge.
Team wants city to OWN the arena and retain all concessions.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

As far as know both city and team agree on a 50% ish participation.

City wants the team to OWN the arena and pay taxes + ticket surcharge.
Team wants city to OWN the arena and retain all concessions.

In looking at both of these, I think both look fair for all parties involved. Why the hell there is so much consternation involved in this especially from the Flames side is beyond me. The city's proposal looks better than the one the Flames are proposing, but the team's one I also think is a good one too. Is it the site they're hung up on?

 

[powerstuck]

In looking at both of these, I think both look fair for all parties involved. Why the hell there is so much consternation involved in this especially from the Flames side is beyond me. The city's proposal looks better than the one the Flames are proposing, but the team's one I also think is a good one too. Is it the site they're hung up on?

The Flames proposal puts all future costs on the city and even their ''% of participation'' would be paid off thru rent only. In other words...they get it for free.

City's proposal is better for the community because team would get a new arena, would own it but would need to pay taxes (like everyone else). So the city would recoup the initial investment over time by collecting taxes.

I think it's like both parties have a somewhat viable solution but none wants to exercice some compromises to meet in middle.