Pre-Game Talk: NHL Expansion Draft (6-18-17 - 6-21-17) VGK Selects James Neal

[Lateralous]

He couldn't negotiate until July 1. And this will be Neal's last big contract. I think it's safe to say he's going to be asking for a lot of money and term.

You can absolutely negotiate with your own players, the contract just couldn't be signed until 7/1

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I think this is 100% correct and why Poile did what he did.

Can you imagine giving that up for Jarnkrok??? Can you imagine giving that up for 1 year of Neal at an affordable price? Hell no! Anyone that cares anything about the future of this team could never imagine paying that high a price. McPhee gave Poile the big ol' FU finger for the Forsberg debacle with this and now we're left with the #hottake apocalypse.

Poile did the right thing

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Also, if Jarnkrok scores 40 or more points this season, I will change my profile pick to Bieber. Someone screenshot this post for proof.

 

[Armourboy]

He couldn't negotiate until July 1. And this will be Neal's last big contract. I think it's safe to say he's going to be asking for a lot of money and term.

Oh BS, you are telling me that at no point in the middle of the season he couldn't pick up the dang phone and talk to his agent? It ain't like he didn't know this was coming, we knew months ago who the choice was going to come down too.

Either way we are now hoping Poile finds us a 2C and replaces Neal. We can only trade so much, and I don't have a ton of faith with Poile and FA forwards.

 

[PerdFan]

I, for one, hope Fisher retires. Don't know if we can get back to that level this year. He is such a good guy. Want him to go out on top as he deserves. Guess we will have to wait and see.

The crazy season has begun. Hopefully Poole corrects his error and lands us a center.

How is giving up Jarnkrok mortgaging the farm?

1. This organization lacks high end C depth

2. Jarnkrok is a young proven 2 way C on a sweetheart of a deal in term and cap hit.

3. Did you see what the rumored ask was for McPhee to let Poile protect who he wanted? Now giving up THAT to protect either Jarnkrok or Neal would be mortgaging the farm.

 

[tampa pred]

GMGM played Poile on this one. Poile tried to work out a deal to protect Krok prior to submitting the list. GMGM asked for a ridiculous amount , forcing Poile to make a decision in hopes that he would make the monumental error in exposing Neal. If Neal is exposed, GM gets the best player/asset in the draft. If Krok is exposed, he can still negotiate a reasonable deal to allow Poile to keep him.

Great job GMGM! Preds fans get screwed again with another off-season debacle.

 

[Enoch]

Jarnkrok isn't that good guys. Why do we keep acting like he is some savior of our center depth. He was downright awful through three rounds of the playoffs. Invisible. Turnover machine. Line-killer offensively. For all of his defensive acumen, his lack of physical strength hurts him in a 3rd line role.

You could make a better case that he is over paid than underpaid.

This is all about him improving. If he doesn't, this is even worse.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

1. This organization lacks high end C depth

2. Jarnkrok is a young proven 2 way C on a sweetheart of a deal in term and cap hit.

3. Did you see what the rumored ask was for McPhee to let Poile protect who he wanted? Now giving up THAT to protect either Jarnkrok or Neal would be mortgaging the farm.

You understand that we number 1 is still true, right? Jarnkrok doesn't change our lack of high end center depth.

Jarnkrok's deal is fair. It isn't great, it isn't terrible. It's fair.

Yeah, and if Poile had protected the correct player, it would've been less.

 

[RaiderDoug]

GMGM played Poile on this one. Poile tried to work out a deal to protect Krok prior to submitting the list. GMGM asked for a ridiculous amount , forcing Poile to make a decision in hopes that he would make the monumental error in exposing Neal. If Neal is exposed, GM gets the best player/asset in the draft. If Krok is exposed, he can still negotiate a reasonable deal to allow Poile to keep him.

Great job GMGM! Preds fans get screwed again with another off-season debacle.

C'mon, let's give the reigning GM of the year, a guy who built a team that just won the western conference, and one that's set up to be successful for quite some time, some credit.

It's very likely he sat down with Lavy, Scouts, and the rest of the management team, and weighed both players very carefully, and came to a decision to protect CJ instead of Neal.

I don't think there was any panic, or hoping some other GM would make a mistake, etc, etc.

It was simply a decision that 1 year of Neal is more expendable/replaceable than multiple years of Jarnkrok.

Is it the right decision? There's no way anyone can possibly know that on June 22nd, before trading season, before free agency, and before the puck even drops.

Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Armourboy]

I think this is 100% correct and why Poile did what he did.

Can you imagine giving that up for Jarnkrok??? Can you imagine giving that up for 1 year of Neal at an affordable price? Hell no! Anyone that cares anything about the future of this team could never imagine paying that high a price. McPhee gave Poile the big ol' FU finger for the Forsberg debacle with this and now we're left with the #hottake apocalypse.

Poile did the right thing

He wouldn't have asked that for Jarnkrok, mainly because not only would we never pay it, no team in the league would either.

Keep in mind the reason he could ask such moronic overpayment on Neal is because he wanted Neal. He wanted Neal because with or without the Preds he is probably going to get a 1st+ for Neal at the trade deadline.

Ultimately it comes down too pre-list the demand to keep Jarnkrok was going to be stupid, because McPhee wanted Neal. Once he got Neal it was going to be stupid because he can get a good return on him.

We won't really know what he actually would have wanted for Jarnkrok, but whatever it was it wouldn't have been as high as Neal.

 

[FossilFndr]

Poile looked resigned to a prostrate exam as Neal's name was announced. Noting to do but just endure it.

As much as I've been a supporter of Callie, more for inferred character than proven on ice points/results, I was astounded that he was protected over Neal.

I'll never know if Poile gave 19 some assurance that he would not be released nor if Neal had indicated he was leaving a SC finalist team after another year or any other factor that was part of the decision.

I just have to hope it happened for Predators reasons, not because he got 'played' by McPhee.

 

[PredsV82]

That makes it worse. If you aren't getting off the hook, you absolutely protect the more valuable asset.

well, my point is, Neal for one year versus Jarnkrok for multiple years is a legit judgement call as to which is more valuable to the team.

like token said, there are plenty of ways this gets mitigated going forward.

If we add nobody between now and puck drop, the doubters will have a valid point. I think the chances of that happening are only slightly greater than that of monkeys flying out my butt

 

[PredsV82]

C'mon, let's give the reigning GM of the year, a guy who built a team that just won the western conference, and one that's set up to be successful for quite some time, some credit.

It's very likely he sat down with Lavy, Scouts, and the rest of the management team, and weighed both players very carefully, and came to a decision to protect CJ instead of Neal.

I don't think there was any panic, or hoping some other GM would make a mistake, etc, etc.

It was simply a decision that 1 year of Neal is more expendable/replaceable than multiple years of Jarnkrok.

Is it the right decision? There's no way anyone can possibly know that on June 22nd, before trading season, before free agency, and before the puck even drops.

Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

thank you. well said. we can revisit this decision during/after the upcoming season.

 

[tampa pred]

The only UFA that could come close to replacing Neal is Oshie, and he is going to end up costing at least as much as (and probably more than) we were paying Neal. If exposing Neal was a business decision, we won't be signing Oshie.

 

[Drake744]

GMGM played Poile on this one. Poile tried to work out a deal to protect Krok prior to submitting the list. GMGM asked for a ridiculous amount , forcing Poile to make a decision in hopes that he would make the monumental error in exposing Neal. If Neal is exposed, GM gets the best player/asset in the draft. If Krok is exposed, he can still negotiate a reasonable deal to allow Poile to keep him.

Great job GMGM! Preds fans get screwed again with another off-season debacle.

GMGM asked for a ridiculous amount because Poile schooled him in the ripoff of the decade, and he got all petty about not wanting to do him any favors.

 

[PredsV82]

You can absolutely negotiate with your own players, the contract just couldn't be signed until 7/1

as I said elsewhere, I would be astounded if there wasn't a "discussion" with Neals agent in which Poile learned the ballpark that Neal was going to be looking for. If it was anything north of 5 mil and/or 4 years, Im sure Poile knew he was going to lose him next year regardless, and "negotiations" weren't necessary.

I'd be interested to hear what the people who think this was a huge mistake think Neal will get for his next contract, and whether they would be comfortable with Poile signing that deal

 

[Legionnaire11]

Safe to assume that Ellis is given the permanent "A" with Neal gone. What if Fisher retires on top of that?

C - Josi
A - Ellis
A - Johansen

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Safe to assume that Ellis is given the permanent "A" with Neal gone. What if Fisher retires on top of that?

C - Josi
A - Ellis
A - Johansen

forsberg somewhere in there

 

[Lateralous]

as I said elsewhere, I would be astounded if there wasn't a "discussion" with Neals agent in which Poile learned the ballpark that Neal was going to be looking for. If it was anything north of 5 mil and/or 4 years, Im sure Poile knew he was going to lose him next year regardless, and "negotiations" weren't necessary.

I'd be interested to hear what the people who think this was a huge mistake think Neal will get for his next contract, and whether they would be comfortable with Poile signing that deal

I wouldn't sign Neal to a major contract after next season and I still think this is a huge mistake. The Predators are challenging for a cup right now. Having a 1st line forward, playing for their next contract is a valuable piece.

 

[drwpreds]

There you go again, overreacting and being hyperbolic when you think that it's everyone else doing it. It's you. Look at how emotional you get and how much you exaggerate. You're the one who brought up Wayne Gretzky, not coming to games anymore, attracting any free agents, the window closing or it killing the team. You're so emotional that you can't read any criticism of Poile's decision for what it is without twisting it into something so over-the-top that it justifies your indignation at the criticism. That's a very disingenuous way to debate. Respond to exactly what people say. As you said last night, we're all adults here, and adults don't embellish. If you embellish what people have said to make your point and claim moral superiority, then you don't have a point. If, instead, you simply take what people are saying at face value, you'll get a lot less worked up than you do, especially over what's really been rather restrained, intelligent and mature criticism around here.

I don't know what to tell you man- I DID respond to what people say- I didn't bring up dropping tickets, or not being able to attract free agents, or our window closing- that was what other people brought up that they think will happen because of losing Neal.

I am not claiming any kind of superiority- are you serious with that??

Again I will repeat my stance- I HATE LOSING JAMES NEAL. I think it is a mistake and I am 100% opposed to it. I think it is absolutely possible that it will make it much more difficult for us to win NEXT SEASON. All of that I agree with. I am not even trying to defend Poile here- I don't agree with what he did here!!!

But I just think some are overreacting and making it a bigger deal than it is. That's it. I am not allowed to say that?? I didn't call anyone any names, I didn't make it personal, and I certainly don't claim I am smarter or better than anyone else. It is just opinions- we all have one.

You telling me we can't debate this without you coming on here with the quoted post above???

Please tell me what the problem here is- this is a message board- the whole point of it is to debate each others opinions.

 

[drwpreds]

Quit telling people what the hell to think

If you can explain to me where I am doing that I would appreciate it. I hate the move to lose Neal- disagree with it completely and I think Poile made a mistake. But I think a lot of people are overreacting and making it a much bigger deal than it is.

That is it

How is that telling people what to think? Again, this is a MESSAGE BOARD- if we aren't allowed to comment and debate opinions, then what is the point of this whole board????????

 

[deanwormer]

The only UFA that could come close to replacing Neal is Oshie, and he is going to end up costing at least as much as (and probably more than) we were paying Neal. If exposing Neal was a business decision, we won't be signing Oshie.

First of all, if Oshie only cost what we were paying Neal, it'd be a better signing cause it'd be for more than one year and that's all we had Neal for.....

BUT......... Oshie isn't what we need even after Neal is gone. What was EVERYONE (ok, virtually everyone) clamoring for last season and well into the POs? A......(wait for it)........ 2C!!! We need Duchene, we gotta' have better playmakers in the middle, etc. Well, we likely didn't have the money for it, knowing what we needed to give to our RFAs; and now...... we do.

I still think we cover Neal's contribution outta' the current roster - Fiala growth, Smith at least some better luck, Aberg settling in, and the D being healthier. I would much rather spend Neal's $5mil - that he was only gonna' have for one more season before he walked away or wanted more than Flip is getting - on a center, especially if Fish is gonna' retire.

and as for Hook, everyone keeps acting like he's barely better than chopped liver - dude scored 15 goals 2 seasons in a row - 15goals puts him in the top 90 of centers, and he skated half the season centering the 4th line and playing PK. So, no, I don't want him as my 2C - I actually want him on the wing anyway - but he's a good strategic asset.

 

[drwpreds]

C'mon, let's give the reigning GM of the year, a guy who built a team that just won the western conference, and one that's set up to be successful for quite some time, some credit.

It's very likely he sat down with Lavy, Scouts, and the rest of the management team, and weighed both players very carefully, and came to a decision to protect CJ instead of Neal.

I don't think there was any panic, or hoping some other GM would make a mistake, etc, etc.

It was simply a decision that 1 year of Neal is more expendable/replaceable than multiple years of Jarnkrok.

Is it the right decision? There's no way anyone can possibly know that on June 22nd, before trading season, before free agency, and before the puck even drops.

Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Exactly- excellent post, basically that is my whole stance on this in a nutshell, but you did a much better job with it than I have in my posts

 

[bdub24]

Did Poile make an unforced error by leaving Neal exposed? Probably. But we also don't know what discussions Poile and Neal have had.

Is there alot of pent up anti-Poile angst that this situation is now the sounding board for? Yup. That's for sure. People have been calling for David Poiles head since Suter, and Trots, and Klein, and Weber. And any mistake, misstatement, or inaction during free agent season.

He has made errors. Was this one? Maybe. On balance, the dude has been in this business his entire life and was just recognized as the best in the business.

 

[RaiderDoug]

First of all, if Oshie only cost what we were paying Neal, it'd be a better signing cause it'd be for more than one year and that's all we had Neal for.....

BUT......... Oshie isn't what we need even after Neal is gone. What was EVERYONE (ok, virtually everyone) clamoring for last season and well into the POs? A......(wait for it)........ 2C!!! We need Duchene, we gotta' have better playmakers in the middle, etc. Well, we likely didn't have the money for it, knowing what we needed to give to our RFAs; and now...... we do.

I still think we cover Neal's contribution outta' the current roster - Fiala growth, Smith at least some better luck, Aberg settling in, and the D being healthier. I would much rather spend Neal's $5mil - that he was only gonna' have for one more season before he walked away or wanted more than Flip is getting - on a center, especially if Fish is gonna' retire.

and as for Hook, everyone keeps acting like he's barely better than chopped liver - dude scored 15 goals 2 seasons in a row - 15goals puts him in the top 90 of centers, and he skated half the season centering the 4th line and playing PK. So, no, I don't want him as my 2C - I actually want him on the wing anyway - but he's a good strategic asset.

This is a great post, and I'm thinking a lot of the same things.

I think we're going to see a breakout from Fiala and regular contributions from Aberg. At some point, you have to let the kids show you what they can do. This team isn't set up only for next year. It's set up to contend for the next 5 years or more.

Jarnkrok isn't a perfect player, but he's valuable (if Fisher retires, he's very valuable as you don't want to have to replace 2 centers this offseason) and getting way too much criticism in this thread.

Let's see what happens.

Either Poile, the GM of the western conference champs and GM of the year - literally got stupid overnight.

Or, he has way more information that we do here on the message board, and made a reasoned decision to craft the roster in a certain way. Is it a gamble - absolutely, but aside from acquiring a guy like a McDavid or Crosby, what isn't?

 

[Paranoid Android]

How will we ever replace Neal's 41 points?

I would have rather lost Jarnkrok than Neal for sure, but man Neal is suddenly overrated around here. He's an oft-injured, declining winger about to hit 30 years old. I don't consider him "1st line" talent anymore. We are fine.

I wouldn't even call this a blunder for Poile. Just a weird preference. Let's see how it all plays out. We now have cap space that we wouldn't have had previously.