News and Notes XXII: Now With More Finnish!

[MinJaBen]

While Skinner didn't draw opposing teams top shut down lines/pairs, he did still draw attention. If you remove him without an equally dangerous threat, the attention he did draw gets focused elsewhere. Just another factor to consider when potentially looking at the addition by subtraction bull****.

I’m guessing that Svechnikov will draw similar attention, so we won’t be losing a threat compared to last year.

 

[DougieSmash]

Big, big fan of Saad. We lack that type of forward. Bring him here.

 

[DaveG]

Can't disagree with one bit of that Bleed.

To me the harder question is going to be how we replace Faulk if he is moved, which is sounding more and more likely. There's no doubt that last year was a down year for him, but that also he's been having some mobility issues. To do trades such as Faulk + Darling (w retention) for Saad, Hossa, pick; and Skinner for Martinez to LA we make up some of that, but we lose quite a bit of dynamism in both positions in the process. In losing Skinner for Saad up front we go from a guy with top line ability to a prototypical second liner; In losing Faulk for Martinez we go from a guy that can be when on and skating well looks like a #1 for a guy that's clearly a #3 type dman. But the question is are the replacements more reliable by enough of a difference to compensate for that, since while they're downgrades it's not as if it's to the degree that the guys coming in are bad, and they may be a better fit for what we need. The thing with Faulk is that, even though he's not a QB, he's an absolute weapon on the PP, something that neither of Saad or Martinez bring to the table, and the only player in the system that really also has that element is Bean who's not quite ready for prime time and is more of a QB type then a trigger man. The x-factor there is Slavin who has shown some offensive chops in his time and could be the kind of guy that has more to give in that regard, but hasn't really gotten the chance on the PP.

I'm not at all concerned about how to replace Darling, he was by far the worst goalie in the league last year that got significant playing time. Signing Halak or even Lehtonen would lose us nothing in terms of replacing him. Though I would try to flip the pick we get from Chicago for say Schneider if NJ is serious about moving on from him if we can somehow squeeze our way in to the #27.

 

[RodTheBawd]

I’m guessing that Svechnikov will draw similar attention, so we won’t be losing a threat compared to last year.

Look, I'm super excited about Svech, but I'm not going to pencil him in as a 30 goal threat right off the bat. I'd be thrilled if I'm wrong, but I'm trying to temper the optimism here; I don't see him filling Skinner's offensive boots in his first year.

 

[geehaad]

While Skinner didn't draw opposing teams top shut down lines/pairs, he did still draw attention. If you remove him without an equally dangerous threat, the attention he did draw gets focused elsewhere. Just another factor to consider when potentially looking at the addition by subtraction bull****.

No team was sending out even their second-best line against Derek Ryan's line.

 

[RodTheBawd]

No team was sending out even their second-best line against Derek Ryan's line.

High likelihood I'm wrong and welcome anyone that cares more than me to throw together the relevant QoC stats to prove so.

 

[Stickpucker]

On the offensive side Skinner is hard to play with because he's unpredictable but that is also what makes him hard to defend.

I will chalk up Skinner's defensive game last year to checking out after 3 months. Iirc 2 years ago everyone was bullish on his defensive game after he was so agressive on the puck. Baby datsyuk comparisons may have even been thrown around.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Skinner had the most offensive zone starts and faced the easiest competition of every forward on Carolina.

 

[Ole Gil]

On the offensive side Skinner is hard to play with because he's unpredictable but that is also what makes him hard to defend.

I will chalk up Skinner's defensive game last year to checking out after 3 months. Iirc 2 years ago everyone was bullish on his defensive game after he was so agressive on the puck. Baby datsyuk comparisons may have even been thrown around.

I think more than bullish, it was more excitement that Skinner seemed to have upgraded his defensive game from worst in the league to just bad.

 

[Joe McGrath]

View attachment 125261

How Jordan Staal isn’t a minus eleven billion with that goaltending is nothing short of incredible.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

How Jordan Staal isn’t a minus eleven billion with that goaltending is nothing short of incredible.

Same goes for Slavin.

 

[GoldiFox]

Same goes for Slavin.

View attachment 125271

If the Canes ever make the Playoffs then Slavin-Pesce will finally get their due. Top-5 shutdown pair in the league.

 

[AD Skinner]

Those two together really are something special- I don't think either is as good separately (though still capable). Really shows how important chemistry can be. They are peanut butter and jelly.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Skinner had the most offensive zone starts and faced the easiest competition of every forward on Carolina.

Thank you for proving my point.

Any way to do home/away splits?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Thank you for proving my point.

Any way to do home/away splits?

I didn't really do anything but go to that website, select Canes, select forwards and download a image of it. I'm sure from one of the many data sources there is a way to do splits, but I have no idea how.

 

[geehaad]

Thank you for proving my point.

clever

 

[NotOpie]

While Skinner didn't draw opposing teams top shut down lines/pairs, he did still draw attention. If you remove him without an equally dangerous threat, the attention he did draw gets focused elsewhere. Just another factor to consider when potentially looking at the addition by subtraction bull****.

Last year Skinner was a net +31 in takeaway/giveaway ratio. He led the team in takeaways w/93 and was 3rd worst on the team in giveaways w/62. As impressive as the takeaways look, if the quality of competition was so meager, it seems to diminish his successes in that regard.

Put another way, he was stripping the puck from mediocre 3rd liners and getting pick pocketed by the same group.

What's worse is that he did garner more attention as his linemates were usually similarly piss-poor. Yet the other team's best were reserved for the other 6 guys in our Top 9. When I think about this, the fact that Skinner gave up w/3 months to go just irritates me even more.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Defending a line of Skinner-Ryan-X basically comes down to triple-teaming Skinner and daring the other guys to somehow get the puck and beat you. Only a moron would match good defensive players to that assignment.

 

[My Special Purpose]

For Faulk and Skinner to be as bad as they were defensively, despite not facing tough competition and starting pretty much every shift in the offensive zone is truly remarkable.

 

[What the Faulk]

Defending a line of Skinner-Ryan-X basically comes down to triple-teaming Skinner and daring the other guys to somehow get the puck and beat you. Only a moron would match good defensive players to that assignment.

Pretty much, which is why it's infuriating to see Skinner on a line with nobodies basically for the last 5 years here. Instead of moving him, how about finding someone that can keep up with him and is also a legitimate scoring threat?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Just for reference, here are Skinner's most common linemates based on 5v5 TOI with for the last 5 years.

13/14: 1: Elias Lindholm, 2: Eric Staal,
14/15: 1: Elias Lindholm, 2: Victor Rask
15/16: 1: Victor Rask, 2: PDG
16/17: 1: Victor Rask, 2: Lee Stempniak
17/18: 1: Derek Ryan, 2: Elias Lindholm

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Defending a line of Skinner-Ryan-X basically comes down to triple-teaming Skinner and daring the other guys to somehow get the puck and beat you. Only a moron would match good defensive players to that assignment.

It's more like "defending a line of Skinner-X-X" basically comes down to triple teaming Skinner, because every team knows he doesn't use his linemates very well, no matter who they are.

 

[NotOpie]

It's more like "defending a line of Skinner-X-X" basically comes down to triple teaming Skinner, because every team knows he doesn't use his linemates very well, no matter who they are.

Thank you @Boom Boom Apathy !

I love Jeff Skinner the goal scorer....I've got to think, as a linemate, I'd likely hate him.

 

[GoldiFox]

It's more like "defending a line of Skinner-X-X" basically comes down to triple teaming Skinner, because every team knows he doesn't use his linemates very well, no matter who they are.

Would be interesting to see what happens if a team throws Skinner on a line with a clearly superior C like McDavid or Eichel. Could be blue-sky offensive breakout if he accepted offensive support from a player of that level. Could be ugly if he can’t break out of the tunnel vision.