Player Discussion New Captain- Nick Suzuki

[Lafleurs Guy]

Why tf are we shitting on our top two forwards so much???

Solid two way 1B center is not ‘shitting’ on him. He’s really good.

 

[Rapala]

And again… he slumped before those injuries occurred.

Yeah NO
27 points in 25 games up and until Monahan went down.
So it's not and again...
It's Try Again.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah NO
27 points in 25 games up and until Monahan went down. Try Again.

Monahan wasn’t on his line. Caufield kept scoring goals…

Be honest, Suzuki looked really bad. It wasn’t because of Monahan…

 

[Ezpz]

Nick is a #1 whether fans acknowledge him or not. If Cole could actually finish this year Nick would be over a point per game and firmly in the top 15 centers for points.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nick is a #1 whether fans acknowledge him or not. If Cole could actually finish this year Nick would be over a point per game and firmly in the top 15 centers for points.

And how about if he doesn’t play with CC? What if he plays with Slaf and Newhook? What if it’s Dach and someone else?

If he’s a number one, why does he need a guy who paces for 47 goals to get points? Larkin did it, why not Nick?

I’m not saying this to antagonize. Seriously, a number one should be able to put up points at a higher rate.

 

[danisonfire]

Right, teams don’t usually work like that.

No, the point is PLAYERS usually don't set career high's and lead their team in scoring by 1.72x the 2nd highest scorer.

But it happens when you wind up with injuries.

Find me a single leading scorer that is above 1.5x the points of the 2nd highest scorer on their team. It doesn't happen often. It means the player is producing with next to no production around them,

And again… he slumped before those injuries occurred with a guy pacing towards 47 goals - good for sixth in the league.

And again even with a slump he set a career high in points playing with the worst support in the NHL for production. Support that was injury call ups and AHL players mixed with NHL 3rd and 4th liners and no PP specialist.

You skipped over my Larkin example. He’s 25 points ahead of the next guy and they only have those points because he’s jusicing their numbers.

79 for Larkin, 56 for Parron = 1.41x .

This says that Larkin is better than he gets credit for. It still isnt even close to Suzuki's 1.72x.

For fun, the next 6 scorers after Larkin would all be above 2nd or tied for 2nd in points and range from 56-38 points. They also have two D that would be 2nd or tied for 2nd in scoring on Montreal (42, 38).

 

[Rapala]

Monahan wasn’t on his line.

Nobody said he was but he sure as hell was the only reason we were able to play Dach alongside Suzuki.
Losing Dach is what cost Suzuki points but you cant admit it.
I also don't give a crap that Caufield pulled a couple of points more out of his ass until he fizzled.
Losing Monahan and then Dach off his line is was and forever will be the reason Suzuki's production went down immediately thereafter.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No, the point is PLAYERS usually don't set career high's and lead their team in scoring by 1.72x the 2nd highest scorer.



Find me a single leading scorer that is above 1.5x the points of the 2nd highest scorer on their team. It doesn't happen often. It means the player is producing with next to no production around them,



And again even with a slump he set a career high in points playing with the worst support in the NHL for production. Support that was injury call ups and AHL players mixed with NHL 3rd and 4th liners and no PP specialist.



79 for Larkin, 56 for Parron = 1.41x .

This says that Larkin is better than he gets credit for. It still isnt even close to Suzuki's 1.72x.

For fun, the next 6 scorers after Larkin would all be above 2nd or tied for 2nd in points and range from 56-38 points. They also have two D that would be 2nd or tied for 2nd in scoring on Montreal (42, 38).

I’ve already explained this to you, the injuries are why you see the percentages you do. Do you really think he was that more dominant than he’s teammates? Of course not.

Unlike Larkin he had one of the best snipers in the league on his wing for half a season. Larkin never had anything close to as good a player to play with. Nevermind Kirby Dach as well.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nobody said he was but he sure as hell was the only reason we were able to play Dach alongside Suzuki.
Losing Dach is what cost Suzuki points but you cant admit it.
I also don't give a crap that Caufield pulled a couple of points more out of his ass until he fizzled.
Losing Monahan and then Dach off his line is was and forever will be the reason Suzuki's production went down immediately thereafter.

If you don’t care that Cc was scoring then don’t tell me that Suzuki has nothing to work with. Your position makes no sense.

 

[Ezpz]

And how about if he doesn’t play with CC? What if he plays with Slaf and Newhook? What if it’s Dach and someone else?

If he’s a number one, why does he need a guy who paces for 47 goals to get points? Larkin did it, why not Nick?

I’m not saying this to antagonize. Seriously, a number one should be able to put up points at a higher rate.

Slaf and cc are leaching off Nick at the moment. There's no one producing at that level without help except McDavid. Bergeron's offensive game was not even close to 1C level until Marchand and then pastrnak carried him yet he is considered a hall of fame 1C.

I don't think you'll find more than 1-2 centers ahead of Nick in the scoring race that don't have a team mate scoring as much as them or significantly more than Cole Caufield.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Slaf and cc are leaching off Nick at the moment. There's no one producing at that level without help except McDavid. Bergeron's offensive game was not even close to 1C level until Marchand and then pastrnak carried him yet he is considered a hall of fame 1C.

I don't think you'll find more than 1-2 centers ahead of Nick in the scoring race that don't have a team mate scoring as much as them or significantly more than Cole Caufield.

Connor Bedard springs to mind.

As for CC, I’m pretty sure most of his points have come while playing in a different line. Mike Matheson isn’t far off from Nick and CC and he’s a blueliner. Again, it’s not like there aren’t other players who can produce - even if CC’s goal numbers are crushingly disappointing. I wish it were true that he could leech off Suzuki, if he could, he’d be pacing for a lot more goals.

 

[danisonfire]

I’ve already explained this to you, the injuries are why you see the percentages you do.

And how have you not realized that you just proved my point that if they were in the lineup all season that Nick would have had higher point totals himself. His 1.72x number would be lower but he would also have better quality teammates with him to generate offense all season. The same thing will happen as we fill out our team with more talent. You are fixating on point total numbers as a definition of first line center and ignoring context.

Do you really think he was that more dominant than he’s teammates? Of course not.

Yes. Compared to the rest of the actualized production, he was. On pace doesn't help your total points or your line-mates total points at the end of the year. The exact metric you are using to say he isn't a number one center and he lost his support and we have literally no comparable replacements either. That doesn't seem fair to him when other players get 2 all-stars to work with on the PP.

Unlike Larkin he had one of the best snipers in the league on his wing for half a season. Larkin never had anything close to as good a player to play with. Nevermind Kirby Dach as well.

Suzuki's passing helps Caufield as well. They both benefit in that aspect. The point remains. HALF A SEASON. Which half do you think is easier to generate offense? Would a full year help Nick beat 66 points? I think we know the answer is yes.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And how have you not realized that you just proved my point that if they were in the lineup all season that Nick would have had higher point totals himself.

My point is that he didn’t produce when CC was healthy. He can’t use it as an excuse if he goes down.

 

[Rapala]

And how about if he doesn’t play with CC? What if he plays with Slaf and Newhook? What if it’s Dach and someone else?

If he’s a number one, why does he need a guy who paces for 47 goals to get points? Larkin did it, why not Nick?

I’m not saying this to antagonize. Seriously, a number one should be able to put up points at a higher rate.

I'm hoping they move Caufield for the good of Suzuzki and Slafkovsky at this point.

If you don’t care that Cc was scoring then don’t tell me that Suzuki has nothing to work with. Your position makes no sense.

I don't give a rats ass what Caufield was doing because no matter how you try to spin it the truth is simple.
Every player who was on a PPG pace fell off it when Sean Monahan went down. Two of them had to take on additional resposibilities.
Cole Caufield was not one of them. You do realize he wasn't all that great through that stretch either right?
12 goose eggs out of twenty games to be exact.
Leave it alone man you are WAY WAY off.

 

[danisonfire]

My point is that he didn’t produce when CC was healthy. He can’t use it as an excuse if he goes down.

October:

Suzuki - 10 points
Caufield - 10 points

November:

Suzuki - 14 points
Caufield - 11 points

December:

Suzuki - 8 points
Caufield - 9 points

January:

Suzuki - 8 points
Caufield - 9points

46 games played before injury. Suzuki had 40 points and Caufield had 39 points. Suzuki was on pace for 71.3 points and Caufield was on pace for 69.5 points.

So his total points (expected vs real) after the injury dropped by 5 total points as he played with zero offensive minded forwards and defense-men for half a season. Still set a career high at the same time.

He still plays for a one line team that is easy to match against. What about when we get 3 good lines and you can't defend a single line all game long? It could open up space for offensive production. NHL teams should look into it, I think they call it balancing a roster.

The team also has no offensive minded PMD, one of the worst PPs for results and talent and half our talent and supporting cast was injured for half the season (while not being good enough even if they played all year). We just had the honor of replacing them with even worse players for half the year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm hoping they move Caufield for the good of Suzuzki and Slafkovsky at this point.

I don't give a rats ass what Caufield was doing because no matter how you try to spin it the truth is simple.
Every player who was on a PPG pace fell off it when Sean Monahan went down. Two of them had to take on additional resposibilities.
Cole Caufield was not one of them. You do realize he wasn't all that great through that stretch either right?
12 goose eggs out of twenty games to be exact.
Leave it alone man you are WAY WAY off.

He paced at a 47 goal pace and was pretty consistent. He didn’t have any issues with Monaghan going down. And he set up Suzuki repeatedly. I don’t know what was wrong with Nick but he just sucked down that stretch.

 

[Rapala]

He paced at a 47 goal pace and was pretty consistent. He didn’t have any issues with Monaghan going down. And he set up Suzuki repeatedly. I don’t know what was wrong with Nick but he just sucked down that stretch.

He paced he paced he paced until he didn't pace.
Just like every other player in the league he paced means jack all.
What did he do and what is he doing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

October:

Suzuki - 10 points
Caufield - 10 points

November:

Suzuki - 14
Caufield - 11

December:

Suzuki - 8
Caufield - 9

January:

Suzuki - 8
Caufield - 9

46 games played before injury. Suzuki had 40 points and Caufield had 39 points. Suzuki was on pace for 71.3 points and Caufield was on pace for 69.5 points.

So his total points (expected vs real) after the injury dropped by 5 total points as he played with zero offensive minded forwards and defense-men for half a season. Still set a career high at the same time.

He still plays for a one line team that is easy to match against. What about when we get 3 good lines and you can't defend a single line all game long? It could open up space for offensive production. NHL teams should look into it, I think they call it balancing a roster.

The team also has no offensive minded PMD, one of the worst PPs for results and talent and half our talent and supporting cast was injured for half the season (while not being good enough even if they played all year). We just had the honor of replacing them with even worse players for half the year.

Here are the game logs. Nick falls off a cliff in mid December (actually he’s not great before that) while his winger continues to score consistently. And a big reason that CC’s assist are so bad over that stretch is that Nick couldn’t score.

Nick: Nick Suzuki 2022-23 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Cc: Cole Caufield 2022-23 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

You may not remember it but I do. Nick was brutal. I don’t know what the hell happened with him.

Anyways, carry on. This guy has not proven himself to really be more than a poor man’s first so far. I hope he picks it up. He has the talent to do it. Maybe he’ll finally put it together in the second half or next year.

 

[Sorinth]

Absolutely. But McDavid has put consistent seasons together. He’s a really consistent player. Suzuki has been consistently inconsistent.

I very much doubt McDavid had seasons where he never had a "cold" streak. The difference is that because he's McDavid his cold streaks are more still productive then most peoples hot streaks, and he has Draisaitl there so he can collect points even when he's not at his best.

 

[Rapala]

Nick Suzuki scored 12 goal in 17 games for the first two months of the season last year gee what a pace.
Let's all join in the cherry picking game.

Here are the game logs. Nick falls off a cliff in mid December (actually he’s not great before that) while his winger continues to score consistently. And a big reason that CC’s assist are so bad over that stretch is that Nick couldn’t score.

Nick: Nick Suzuki 2022-23 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Cc: Cole Caufield 2022-23 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

You may not remember it but I do. Nick was brutal. I don’t know what the hell happened with him.

Anyways, carry on. This guy has not proven himself to really be more than a poor man’s first so far. I hope he picks it up. He has the talent to do it. Maybe he’ll finally put it together in the second half or next year.

Complete and utter exaggeration.
There have been 3 to 4 more blown opportunities by Caufield for every one by Nick Suzuki over the course of their careers.
But none of that counts because it falls outside the window you've chosen to highlight.

Poor man's first on a poor man's team with a poor man's left winger up against teams that aren't poor man.

 

[Rapala]

Connor Bedard springs to mind.

As for CC, I’m pretty sure most of his points have come while playing in a different line. Mike Matheson isn’t far off from Nick and CC and he’s a blueliner. Again, it’s not like there aren’t other players who can produce - even if CC’s goal numbers are crushingly disappointing. I wish it were true that he could leech off Suzuki, if he could, he’d be pacing for a lot more goals.

Yup it's definitely Suzuki's fault for Caufield's piss poor play. Maybe just maybe everything you tried to tell us over the summer is far from reality.
Caufield is not elite and can't compete at the top level Suzuki however is consistent and shows if given player's who are up to snuff is very effective at both ends of the rink.

 

[xX SEYF Xx]

 

[Ezpz]

Surprised nobody is talking about this. Nick's defensive metrics are the best in the league amongst forwards this year. On this crappy team.

 

[Mrb1p]

Advanced stats are crap, guys like Dom, Jfresh and others are f***ing nerds that just don't watch hockey.

The problem with these guys is that they're selling one thing and one thing only and it's numbers formed from equations.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Connor Bedard springs to mind.

Nope.