Confirmed with Link: Ned to DET for Bernier’s rights and a 3rd

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Is it possible that the source, being 1 step removed is being fed information that serves a purpose? We have no way of knowing.

Flip side: I do find it interesting that Neds fiancé is in MI, and now so is he. I’d bet that’s not a coincidence, but who knows.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Agreed. Any story that Ned wanted out makes some sense, but thinking that Detroit was the likely destination is illogical. There were any number of teams looking for a goalie in that 3M range. Ned could have ended up in any of 10 cities, some farther from his fiancé. Ned's agent also had to know that a 5M ask wouldn't help in arbitration--as much as I think Ned is the real deal, even I don't think he deserves the same salary as Lehner signed for less than a year ago.

It would be interesting to know what GC2015's source states as being the Canes final offer.

I believe it was 2.5

 

[Sens1Canes2]

So interesting discussion I had with another club’s GM. We were talking about how the Canes traded Ned (this was after the trade and before FA) and I said “well who’s out there who’s demonstrably better?”

The answer came quick. Bunch of names were rattled off, including Andersen. I pushed back a little, “yeah but when’s he ever *done it*?”

His response was, look, he’s just a better goaltender based on our scouting, and team success is dependent on more than the goalie…and obviously the Canes didn’t think he could be *the guy.*

Just one perspective obviously.

 

[Chrispy]

One of the things I liked about Carolina bucking the system at goal was a firm rejection of the idea a goalie had to start 60+ games. Get 2 goalies who can handle 40 well and you’re in good shape.

They appear to have moved away from this given Andersen regularly started 60 before last season, and Raanta cannot be relied on for 40.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

So interesting discussion I had with another club’s GM. We were talking about how the Canes traded Ned (this was after the trade and before FA) and I said “well who’s out there who’s demonstrably better?”

The answer came quick. Bunch of names were rattled off, including Andersen. I pushed back a little, “yeah but when’s he ever *done it*?”

His response was, look, he’s just a better goaltender based on our scouting, and team success is dependent on more than the goalie…and obviously the Canes didn’t think he could be *the guy.*

Just one perspective obviously.

As always, your insight is greatly appreciated.

I wish we had been able to keep Ned, but I can totally understand why management didn’t want to commit big bucks to a guy with a career high of 23 starts (in a weird shortened season only playing against 7 teams instead of the whole league).

 

[tarheelhockey]

Ned's agent also had to know that a 5M ask wouldn't help in arbitration

Wouldn’t it?

 

[Wolfpuck]

One of the things I liked about Carolina bucking the system at goal was a firm rejection of the idea a goalie had to start 60+ games. Get 2 goalies who can handle 40 well and you’re in good shape.

They appear to have moved away from this given Andersen regularly started 60 before last season, and Raanta cannot be relied on for 40.

I think a 46/36 Andersen/Raanta split could work well. Hopefully Lyon doesn’t see much if any NHL ice time this season.

 

[The Stranger]

We know they didn't want to sign him for $3M because the front office all but had a press conference to announce that fact.

Ned was shooting for that type of number, hence posturing toward $5M when the Canes were thinking more like $1.5M -- that sets up arbitration to land in the middle. All of that was a non-starter for an org that doesn't rate Ned as a bona fide #1. But in a league where Carter Hart signs for $4M after a season where he posted a .877, there was also the possibility of an award that would have made Ned completely immovable by trade. So the minute he made it clear that he was going to arbitration, the negotiation was over. Neither side was particularly in the wrong there... Ned simply played his way out of our cap structure. Good for him, he got paid, which is the point of being a pro goalie.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume Ned would've signed the same 3X2 deal he got with DET if he were offered it in CAR.

They would not be paying him as a bona fide #1 with that contract. They are paying Andersen to be the starter (unless you want to go down the rabbit hole of speculating whether Andersen would've signed here with Ned on the roster).

The question now becomes, will Andersen+Raanta+$1M in cap space yield a better team outcome than Andersen+Ned.

I've watched very little of Andersen and Raanta in recent years...and will not posture that I have well-founded opinion on which duo would be better. That being said, with Andersen's injury history, going with another fragile G as the backup is rolling the dice.

Over/under - regular season games started by either Andersen or Raanta - 70.

The competing storylines (3.5/1.5 vs 5/2.5 ask/bid) are interesting...wish it was clear which set of numbers were true. If he were holding firm at 5 with the Canes and then immediately signed for 3 with DET, I might be coming around to the narrative that the move was orchestrated to get close to his fiance. If the 3.5/1.5 numbers are true, then obviously Ned moved to a place that is paying him double...and that's why he was moved...and the 5/2.5 are mis-information from the ministry of truth.

 

[Canes]

So interesting discussion I had with another club’s GM. We were talking about how the Canes traded Ned (this was after the trade and before FA) and I said “well who’s out there who’s demonstrably better?”

The answer came quick. Bunch of names were rattled off, including Andersen. I pushed back a little, “yeah but when’s he ever *done it*?”

His response was, look, he’s just a better goaltender based on our scouting, and team success is dependent on more than the goalie…and obviously the Canes didn’t think he could be *the guy.*

Just one perspective obviously.

I would not be surprised if most GMs didn't have a similar opinion.

But the fact that Stevie Y wants to take a chance on him always gives me pause.

 

[emptyNedder]

So interesting discussion I had with another club’s GM. We were talking about how the Canes traded Ned (this was after the trade and before FA) and I said “well who’s out there who’s demonstrably better?”

The answer came quick. Bunch of names were rattled off, including Andersen. I pushed back a little, “yeah but when’s he ever *done it*?”

His response was, look, he’s just a better goaltender based on our scouting, and team success is dependent on more than the goalie…and obviously the Canes didn’t think he could be *the guy.*

Just one perspective obviously.

Who does the GM see as undervalued around the league? Any goalies on the list that would surprise other GMs?

 

[tarheelhockey]

For the sake of discussion, let's assume Ned would've signed the same 3X2 deal he got with DET if he were offered it in CAR.

They would not be paying him as a bona fide #1 with that contract. They are paying Andersen to be the starter (unless you want to go down the rabbit hole of speculating whether Andersen would've signed here with Ned on the roster).

The question now becomes, will Andersen+Raanta+$1M in cap space yield a better team outcome than Andersen+Ned.

I've watched very little of Andersen and Raanta in recent years...and will not posture that I have well-founded opinion on which duo would be better. That being said, with Andersen's injury history, going with another fragile G as the backup is rolling the dice.

Over/under - regular season games started by either Andersen or Raanta - 70.

The competing storylines (3.5/1.5 vs 5/2.5 ask/bid) are interesting...wish it was clear which set of numbers were true. If he were holding firm at 5 with the Canes and then immediately signed for 3 with DET, I might be coming around to the narrative that the move was orchestrated to get close to his fiance. If the 3.5/1.5 numbers are true, then obviously Ned moved to a place that is paying him double...and that's why he was moved...and the 5/2.5 are mis-information from the ministry of truth.

I guess what it comes down to is that the front office views Ned as clearly inferior to either Andersen or Raanta, two veterans who have had past success as starters. They aren’t willing to lock in with Ned as a $3M backup on a lack of injury history alone.

It could very well be that they are mistaken and Ned will play to the value of his contract, which means he will then be up for a windfall as a UFA. We’ll see how it plays out, but the Canes’ judgment on that is pretty clear.

 

[Lempo]

It's sunken cost fallacy, byt I don't mind them not wanting to repeat the 4x4M mistake (that we all were for on the day one).

 

[CanesUltimate11]

I would not be surprised if most GMs didn't have a similar opinion.

But the fact that Stevie Y wants to take a chance on him always gives me pause.

While Stevie may see more in Ned then the Canes do he is also in a position to gamble for two years since he is not expecting to compete this year and Carolina is.

 

[Joe McGrath]

It's sunken cost fallacy, byt I don't mind them not wanting to repeat the 4x4M mistake (that we all were for on the day one).

Dont lump me in on that one. I didn’t say he was going to eat himself out of the league but I certainly wasn’t jumping up and down saying the goalie situation was fixed.

 

[NotOpie]

If he were holding firm at 5 with the Canes and then immediately signed for 3 with DET, I might be coming around to the narrative that the move was orchestrated to get close to his fiance.

There's also the very real possibility that Ned and his agent simply over-played their hand. The Canes trade him and then Ned says to his agent, "Get a deal done".

 

[emptyNedder]

There's also the very real possibility that Ned and his agent simply over-played their hand. The Canes trade him and then Ned says to his agent, "Get a deal done".

Given Hamilton, Bean, Foegele, Mrazek, Reimer, Hakanpää, and McGinn, I don't think Ned was the sole player who the team wanted to keep but let go because the agent/player got greedy.

 

[NotOpie]

Given Hamilton, Bean, Foegele, Mrazek, Reimer, Hakanpää, and McGinn, I don't think Ned was the sole player who the team wanted to keep but let go because the agent/player got greedy.

My point was, Ned said he was surprised when he heard about the trade, so it's not beyond belief that he decided he didn't want go through similar hassles with another team.

Has nothing to do with the other guys....all but Bean and Foegele from your list were UFAs, so apples and oranges anyway.

Of course, the other very real possibility was that he wanted to be closer to where his fiancé was and where he apparently spent a good bit of time in the off season.

 

[emptyNedder]

Of course, the other very real possibility was that he wanted to be closer to where his fiancé was and where he apparently spent a good bit of time in the off season.

My point was an RFA doesn't have the power to force a trade to the one team close to his fiancé. He could have ended up in SJ or Arizona.

 

[Lempo]

My point was an RFA doesn't have the power to force a trade to the one team close to his fiancé. He could have ended up in SJ or Arizona.

Depends. Jacob Trouba managed quite easily force the Jets to trade him to NYR by being very explicit to everyone that NYR is the only team he would sign long-term extension with. No one else needn't offer anything worthwhile to Jets.

 

[emptyNedder]

Depends. Jacob Trouba managed quite easily force the Jets to trade him to NYR by being very explicit to everyone that NYR is the only team he would sign long-term extension with. No one else needn't offer anything worthwhile to Jets.

Don't fully remember the details, but wasn't that fairly well known. If it was, then using it as an analogy for why Ned is in Detroit is ex post facto.

 

[Lempo]

Don't fully remember the details, but wasn't that fairly well known. If it was, then using it as an analogy for why Ned is in Detroit is ex post facto.

It was public to us the audience that it was known. What the various GMs around the league knew about Ned is not public to us. Also obviously Ned signed a two year paper that will take him straight to UFA, so also that is not a comparable situation.

That's why I said "Depends" because in some RFA situations the player does have some control for various reasons. We are not well informed but the potential GM buyers may have been better informed about Ned. Maybe some other trade target teams weren't giving Ned his asked 3 either and that's why they didn't make the trade.

 

[Ole Gil]

I would not be surprised if most GMs didn't have a similar opinion.

But the fact that Stevie Y wants to take a chance on him always gives me pause.

I think the difference is risk. What's the worst case scenario in Detroit? If Ned stinks, it's not like he'd be dashing their stanley cup dreams for the next two seasons.

 

[LakeLivin]

My point was, Ned said he was surprised when he heard about the trade, so it's not beyond belief that he decided he didn't want go through similar hassles with another team.

Has nothing to do with the other guys....all but Bean and Foegele from your list were UFAs, so apples and oranges anyway.

Of course, the other very real possibility was that he wanted to be closer to where his fiancé was and where he apparently spent a good bit of time in the off season.

His quote makes it sound like it was his home in the off season.

Ned: “I couldn’t have been more excited to get back here and to be able to call it home all year around.”

 

[NotOpie]

My point was an RFA doesn't have the power to force a trade to the one team close to his fiancé. He could have ended up in SJ or Arizona.

As was said, we don't know what was said behind the scenes; we also don't know what the GMs and agents talked about. Again, there were a lot of moving parts that didn't have anything necessarily to do with "Dundon's cheap".

 

[emptyNedder]

As was said, we don't know what was said behind the scenes; we also don't know what the GMs and agents talked about. Again, there were a lot of moving parts that didn't have anything necessarily to do with "Dundon's cheap".

That's why I said "Depends" because in some RFA situations the player does have some control for various reasons. We are not well informed but the potential GM buyers may have been better informed about Ned. Maybe some other trade target teams weren't giving Ned his asked 3 either and that's why they didn't make the trade.

Lempo--you said earlier in this (or possibly another thread) that Detroit negotiating with Ned's agent prior to any trade would be tampering. If that is the case, you and NO are arguing that Carolina's front office went out of its way to ask Detroit if they would meet Ned's $3M demand because the Canes front office, while not valuing Ned in Raleigh, wanted him to be in his preferred location in the NHL. Sorry, I just don't buy that.

I think the difference is risk. What's the worst case scenario in Detroit? If Ned stinks, it's not like he'd be dashing their stanley cup dreams for the next two seasons.

Now I can believe that Steve Y and his front office thought that Ned would be willing to sign a "reasonable deal" in Detroit because of his local ties--and if he is the real deal it is a huge win. It makes sense to argue that Detroit sought out Ned once they heard the Canes might trade him. In fact it makes a lot more sense than arguing that Ned made an unreasonable demand hoping that Detroit would be willing to trade for him.