Player Discussion: Neal Pionk Part 2

[Joe Hallenback]

6.625 x 6

 

[Jetsfan79]

6.625 x 6

Prediction or that's what your hearing?

 

[surixon]

6.625 x 6

That pretty much would guarantee Copp is gone.

 

[DRW204]

ineffective math dropped this on twitter the other day




seriously pionk has had it rough here..... paired with sbisa or kulikov primarily first year. i wasn't a big fan of year 1 pionk, but it was better than NYR days

then he got paired with forbort, possibly even worse partner than the other two. and goes on to have one of the best years for a Jets 2.0 Dman.

 

[bennylundholm]

In the case of Pionk the player chose arbitration so the team gets to choose.

The Jets give the arbitrator an offer for Pionk, they can either submit a 1 year deal which carries walk away rights or a 2 year deal which only carries walk away rights for 1 year of the 2 year deal. Pionk's camp gives the arbitrator his ask based on 1 and 2 year deals.

Each party then submits their arguments based on NHL verified statistics (no twitter based stat trackers or website that track outside charts or info are allowed). Overall performance is discussed, durability of the player over the length of the last few years, service time and overall contribution to the team, in some cases both on and off the ice.

They talk about statistical comparables and what their AAV is (only players who are RFA eligible may be used as comparables, so basically only players under 27 or with less than 7 years of service time). At this point it comes down to the club telling the arbitrator how Pionk isn't as good as his numbers might suggest or how he doesn't contribute as much to the team as his camp says he does. Pionk's camp will try to argue that he is better than his numbers might suggest and that the Jets are downplaying his contributions to the team. It gets pretty messy and can cause a divide between club and player.

The arbitrator will come to a decision based on which term the Jets elected for 1 or 2 years, usually it ends up being somewhere between what the Jets offered and what Pionk asked for. If 2 years the Jets do not get walk away rights on both years, only 1 year so long as the AAV of the award is $4,538,958 or more. If the Jets chose 2 years and chose to walk away from 1 year of the award then Pionk becomes a UFA next summer.

If the Jets elected for a 1 year deal. They can either accept it and Pionk remains an RFA next summer at which point this process may happen again or they can walk away from the deal as long as its $4,538,958 or more. If they walk away from a 1 year award Pionk then has 4 days to decide if he wants to take the original offer the Jets submitted to the arbitrator. If he elects not to take that original offer he becomes a UFA after those 4 days and can then discuss contracts with any team in the league, including the Jets if he so wishes.

Great stuff! Thank you.

 

[Rheged]

ineffective math dropped this on twitter the other day




seriously pionk has had it rough here..... paired with sbisa or kulikov primarily first year. i wasn't a big fan of year 1 pionk, but it was better than NYR days

then he got paired with forbort, possibly even worse partner than the other two. and goes on to have one of the best years for a Jets 2.0 Dman.

I think it's been pretty understated how good he was last season, especially relative to whatever was going on with the rest of the team.

 

[DRW204]

I think it's been pretty understated how good he was last season, especially relative to whatever was going on with the rest of the team.

agreed. there are a few things i worry about when discussing a new deal for him. ie: first year as a high-end top4D, shorter schedule, no divisional crossing ...... but i think he will likely have his strongest D partner to-date next year, so hopefully he builds upon his latest showing (which was really good, as illustrated)

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I'll say 6 x 6.5

 

[ps241]

Sign me up as a guy who thinks Pionk is our most underrated defenceman. Most Jets fans I know seemed traumatized by the Calgary series where the team no showed and got bullied but somehow Neil was singled out and vilified?

After that he was kind of the new Toby and summarily dismissed as meh by most fans I know.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That pretty much would guarantee Copp is gone.

Maybe not quite, but damn close.

 

[Daximus]

Sign me up as a guy who thinks Pionk is our most underrated defenceman. Most Jets fans I know seemed traumatized by the Calgary series where the team no showed and got bullied but somehow Neil was singled out and vilified?

After that he was kind of the new Toby and summarily dismissed as meh by most fans I know.

If those fans don't understand how effective he is then I question whether they even watch the games or if they are just fans for the sake of being fans.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm beginning to get a little concerned. I expected Pionk to have been signed by now. I don't want him to go through the arbitration process. If he does, I think we need to consider moving him. Maybe not this year, but before next.

 

[surixon]

I'm beginning to get a little concerned. I expected Pionk to have been signed by now. I don't want him to go through the arbitration process. If he does, I think we need to consider moving him. Maybe not this year, but before next.

We still have a few days and Chwvy is a grinder in negotiations. I'm not super concerned as of yet.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

What does it cost us to move Beaulieu and replace him in the pressbox to free up $500K or whatever the difference is for Pionk & Copp? Or can Boo Boo just be buried on the Moose and not affect the cap?

 

[ps241]

If those fans don't understand how effective he is then I question whether they even watch the games or if they are just fans for the sake of being fans.

I had similar arguments with the huge contingent of anti Toby fans over the years except the anti Toby crowd couldn’t stand him. With Pionk they don’t hate him but don’t like him either. Outside HFBoards I don’t know a single “Pionk fan”.

 

[Mathil8]

What does it cost us to move Beaulieu and replace him in the pressbox to free up $500K or whatever the difference is for Pionk & Copp? Or can Boo Boo just be buried on the Moose and not affect the cap?

We can bury all but 125k of Beaulieu's cap hit by burying his contract with the Moose.

 

[Mathil8]

In the case of Pionk the player chose arbitration so the team gets to choose.

The Jets give the arbitrator an offer for Pionk, they can either submit a 1 year deal which carries walk away rights or a 2 year deal which only carries walk away rights for 1 year of the 2 year deal. Pionk's camp gives the arbitrator his ask based on 1 and 2 year deals.

Each party then submits their arguments based on NHL verified statistics (no twitter based stat trackers or website that track outside charts or info are allowed). Overall performance is discussed, durability of the player over the length of the last few years, service time and overall contribution to the team, in some cases both on and off the ice.

They talk about statistical comparables and what their AAV is (only players who are RFA eligible may be used as comparables, so basically only players under 27 or with less than 7 years of service time). At this point it comes down to the club telling the arbitrator how Pionk isn't as good as his numbers might suggest or how he doesn't contribute as much to the team as his camp says he does. Pionk's camp will try to argue that he is better than his numbers might suggest and that the Jets are downplaying his contributions to the team. It gets pretty messy and can cause a divide between club and player.

The arbitrator will come to a decision based on which term the Jets elected for 1 or 2 years, usually it ends up being somewhere between what the Jets offered and what Pionk asked for. If 2 years the Jets do not get walk away rights on both years, only 1 year so long as the AAV of the award is $4,538,958 or more. If the Jets chose 2 years and chose to walk away from 1 year of the award then Pionk becomes a UFA next summer.

If the Jets elected for a 1 year deal. They can either accept it and Pionk remains an RFA next summer at which point this process may happen again or they can walk away from the deal as long as its $4,538,958 or more. If they walk away from a 1 year award Pionk then has 4 days to decide if he wants to take the original offer the Jets submitted to the arbitrator. If he elects not to take that original offer he becomes a UFA after those 4 days and can then discuss contracts with any team in the league, including the Jets if he so wishes.

And here I just assumed the arbitrators maxed out their billable hours and then simply took the average of both camps asks...

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

That pretty much would guarantee Copp is gone.

Agreed, but for fun we'll play it out with Pionk at $6.625 million.

Handing in a a 20 person near optimal roster still provides up to $5,176,188 to sign Copp.

*(please note in ALL scenarios Beaulieu & Niku should be assumed to have been traded or waived. I've put them on LTIR to save myself the time of making fake trades on capfriendly)*

Implications become:

1) Losing both Niku & Beaulieu as the result of waivers or in a trade. Whereas shedding Beaulieu's contract is a good thing keeping Niku provided one of the two cheapest defensemen to scratch (the other Nogier). There is certainly financial benefit to be gained by keeping Niku, but handing in a 21 man roster leaves just $4,451,188 to sign Copp.
2) Little is forced onto LTIR when the roster are handed in, losing the benefits that come with doing so a day later.
3) Having to run this 22 man roster for much of the season & realizing that there wasn't $4,451,188 in the first place to sign Copp, but only $3,726,188 available.

in conclusion under this scenario you can't sign Pionk for that amount and expect Copp to remain in Winnipeg.

That extra $625,000 in salary is too much. Pionk needs to sign for at/under $6 million to set any path in motion for Copp to remain in Winnipeg.

 

[PaperJet]

 

[JetsUK]

That would be fantastic news, if true!



4/5 of Nurse at 2/3 of the cost!

 

[Rheged]

4 years and under 6 would be great!

 

[untouchable21]

Guessing 5.87 per season

 

[DRW204]

4x5.875m

great deal for both sides. all-around reasonable imo. i wanted a 4 year deal, was expecting between 5.5-6m on that term. gotta think a 7-8 year deal is in the 6.5m+ range. imo, 4 years for a 26 year old dman with really 1 high-end year under his belt is much easier to stomach.

 

[Bob E]

That would be a great deal.

 

[Weezeric]

Amazing deal!