I said he wouldn't be. Brian Boyle is barely above a PPG as a Jr. at BC, and he's a far superior player to Pineault at this point in their development.
Ncaa/chl ?
- Thread starter MN_Gopher
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Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
MN_Gopher said:
Yes I am telling you that Phaneuf at 18 is better then Rob Blake at 20 and Parent likely too and for every Rob Blake at 20 years old in the NCAA you have there is a CHL player under the age of 20 that is already playing in the NHL.
As for Turco at 23..........Ill put up MA Fleury........Marek Schwarz.......Carey Price.......Justin Pogge......and many many others who were better at age 19 then he was at 23......had you not noticed Turco was an extreme late bloomer.
VOB said:
Oh, c'mon. You can't compare players based on their point totals at the WJC - then translate that to how'd they'd do in different leagues. It's too small of a window to prove anything, and waaayyy too abstract; especially statistically.
If that were the case Luc Bourdon and Cam Barker should be outscoring every Canadian forward not named Blake Comeau....and Ryan Parent went pointless, so he's not as good as every player who got a point in the WJC.
If you WATCHED the games, and SAW the hockey, you'd have seen that Oshie was one of the US' top 3 forwards game in and game out. Bobby Ryan (who's ripping the CHL a new one) was not as good as Oshie. In fact, there were times when he was terrible. Mueller looked very talented but - young. Schremp was very good. But, again, it's hard to compare players based on a 6 games.
Again, in terms of relative talent, most of the US WJC players play 2nd fiddle on their respective NCAA squads. The same can't be said for the CHL players. Even the vast majority of Canada's WJC players are extremely vital cogs to their team -- the same can't be said for their NCAA players (Toews, Cogliano, Bertram, Pokuluk.)
Decided not to do the poll?...I don't blame 'ya.
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Zine said:Oh, c'mon. You can't compare players based on their point totals at the WJC - then translate that to how'd they'd do in different leagues. It's too small of a window to prove anything, and waaayyy too abstract; especially statistically.
If that were the case Luc Bourdon and Cam Barker should be outscoring every Canadian forward not named Blake Comeau....and Ryan Parent went pointless, so he's not as good as every player who got a point in the WJC.
If you WATCHED the games, and SAW the hockey, you'd have seen that Oshie was one of the US' top 3 forwards game in and game out. Bobby Ryan (who's ripping the CHL a new one) was not as good as Oshie. In fact, there were times when he was terrible. Mueller looked very talented but - young. Schremp was very good. But, again, it's hard to compare players based on a 6 games.
Again, in terms of relative talent, most of the US WJC players play 2nd fiddle on their respective NCAA squads. The same can't be said for the CHL players. Even the vast majority of Canada's WJC players are extremely vital cogs to their team -- the same can't be said for their NCAA players (Toews, Cogliano, Bertram, Pokuluk.)
Decided not to do the poll?...I don't blame 'ya.
Sure you can compare, especially when its all you have. Hey this was the WJC, not some throw away game in Alaska Anchorage!!!! If you can't produce here, agaisnt the best, your true qualities (or there lack of) are exposed. Why do you suppose Kessel's reputation took such a big hit!
Oh yes I wathced all the games, and like I said I liked Oshie but the game at the WJC is played at a higher level and while Oshie did some nice things out there, he simply could not get it done on the score sheet. He does not possess the natural raw talent of someone like a Mueller or even a Ryan, who by the way was grossly misused and given very little ice time. Factor in the point that this year's WJC was called very similiar to what the NCAA has been like for the past few years. You could not hit anyone on the ice, it was terrible...until of course the fans revolted, forcing the IIHF to call in its refs and ordered them to loosen up. Had the final game between Canada and Russia been called like they were in the prelims...it would have been a different outcome.
Canada was simply better than the U.S., they carried the play 5X5 and the only time the U.S. (Kessel, Bourque et al) was dangerous was on the PP.
As for Mueller, well like I said, he is stats in the WHL are very similiar to what Oshie is putting up in the NCAA and I saw this kid play in the NCAA as a 16 year old and he more than held his own!
As for your poll, can you imagine if I did a poll three years back as to who would be the better Dman - Phanuef or Suter - about 90% on this board would have said I was crazy to even compare them because Suter was going to be the best Dman to come out of that draft by a country mile! Of course 10% of people on this board even saw Dion and Suter play....about the same percentage who have watched Oshie and Pineault this year.
And just for the record, I like Oshie, I think that he will have a more successful pro career than Pineualt but as of right now, I don't think he'd put up more points on the board than what Pineualt is putting up.
phaneuf_fan_3 said:
Here's what I said to Goph....
Goph is a tad sensitive about his Gopher players though
VOB said:
Yeah, I guess this logic applies to Phaneuf, Heatley, Lupul, Eminger, Spezza, Nash, Lecavalier, Hanhuis, Bouwmeester, Ballard, Semin, Steen, Michalek, Zherdev, Tyutin, Legwand, Brown, Gleason, Suter, Prucha, Volchenkov, Whitney, Martin, , Richards, Ryder, Ribiero, Gaborik, Leopold, Stuart, Regehr, Vaananen, Vishnevski, Connolly, etc, etc, etc, etc,................all guys who scored under 5 points at a WJC. Their true qualities (or lack thereof) were exposed.
VOB said:
I'm not saying that Oshie has more natural talent than Mueller......far from it. However, based on age difference, Oshie is a better player right now. Despite putting up some decent points, Mueller was exposed and outmatched from time to time - but that's expected from an '88. On a top NCAA team, a coach would not give him as much ice time as he receives in the CHL. Oshie was making things happen everytime he was on the ice.
Again, the WJC is a good indicator of where a player is talent and development wise, but you CAN'T compare leagues based on WJC statistics.
By using your reasoning:
* Scoring stud Mathias Joggi would be leading the OHL in scoring; after all, he had more points than Schremp.
* Phil Kessel had 1 more point than Malkin.......that would mean he'd be the best player in the RSL, even though he's not even the best player on his NCAA team.
* Why isn't Boris Valabik leading the Q in points....seeing that he outscored Radulov?
* SuperNorwegian Mathias Trygg had more points than Nathan Davis...meaning he's better than a PPG player in the NCAA.
* Sebastien Karlsson had more points than Bolland, which would put him up there with Schremp as the leader in OHL scoring. Seeing that Karlsson had 3 pts in 6 Swedish junior games -- Swedish Juniors >>> OHL.
* Aki Seitsonen should be an AHL 1st liner right now.....after all, he did outscore Voloshenko.
* Chris Bourque had more goals than Malkin.....this means Bourque would be leading the RSL in goals, despite only having 7 in the AHL.
* Finnish defensive stalwart Timo Seppanen had 4x as many points as Staal. That would mean Seppanen would have 168 points in the OHL.
PLEASE, tell me (I seriously doubt you will), if you are correct, how these things are possible? These aren't abnormalities either....I could go on and on and on with examples.
VOB said:
What in the world does Phaneuf and Suter have to do with Oshie/Pineault? Just 'cause you were right on Phaneuf doesn't mean anything. Heck, I had a hunch Svatos was going to be a fantastic player, even in juniors.......what's that have to do with Oshie/Pineault?
You can always site obscure examples like Phaneuf and Svatos,...but 90% of this board can realise a good prospect from an average one.
Me thinks I have my answer with the poll.
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VOB said:
Well lets see Nagy did not jump to the NHL right of the bat. He spent parts of 2 seasons in the AHL. Now lets look at those guys. Spezza also played parts in the AHL. And Carter, Richards, Crosby and Phanuef are still plating so they are out as well.
In order of best first years out of the CHL and years played in CHL after draft.
Tanguay. 51 points in 71 games playeed one year after he was drafted.
Gagne. 48 points in 80 games. Played one year after draft.
Nash. 39 points in 74 games. All the rest came out after being drafted.
Staal. 31 points in 81 games.
Horton. 22 points in 55 games
Lecavalier. 28 points in 82 games
Thornton. 7 points in 55 games.
Funny how the two oldest had the best seasons. I guess Tanguay and Gagne are better than than others then right? And by a fair margin. Or does one year of devolpment mean that much? Nash was on the border of contributing. But under him the others got experiane, but did not help out at least in the scoring department. Where Gagne and Tanguay did. Thas what a year or two can do to player. Staal from 31 to two years later tops in the NHL. Thornton goes from 7 to 41 to 60. Wow look at that. Two years again. There is a pattern here. See it. You probally cannot. So i will spell it out. Two years makes a huge difference.
As usual Goph you missed the entire point, which was that all those players jumped right into the NHL from the CHL, meaning what? They had to be better than their NCAA counterparts who were still playing in the NCAA as 20-24 year olds or toiling in the minors before making it the big show.
Well for starters, Spezza had 6pts in the WJC,Phaneuf had 6pts, Heatley had 5, and even a young 17 year old Rick Nash trippled Oshie's point production! And you do realize that players such as Bouwmeester are Dmen, and even a 18 year old Dman doubled Oshie's production!
No Kessel and Bourque cannot be considered Malkin's equals because Malkin did not have Norway to feast on!
Who knows how Joggi would do in the OHL, as he plays in the Swiss Senior League!
Tell me Zine, what makes you think Oshie would do better than Mueller in the WHL? Is it because some players have went to the CHL after the NCAA and put more points? Well gee Chris Butler has 28 pts in 60 USHL games yet has 21 pts in only 26 WCHA game! What could that mean??!!! It must mean that the USHL is >>>>>than the NCAA
!!!!!!!! Look for no further proof than Oshie's 5pts in 11 USHL games yet is he not a ppg player in college!
The fact of the matter is Oshie played with Mueller in the WJC, and Mueller garnered more points! How can you then say with certainty that if Oshie were in the WHL, he would "tear it up"?
Tell me why the NCAA is better than the CHL again please?
Well for starters, Spezza had 6pts in the WJC,Phaneuf had 6pts, Heatley had 5, and even a young 17 year old Rick Nash trippled Oshie's point production! And you do realize that players such as Bouwmeester are Dmen, and even a 18 year old Dman doubled Oshie's production!
No Kessel and Bourque cannot be considered Malkin's equals because Malkin did not have Norway to feast on!
Who knows how Joggi would do in the OHL, as he plays in the Swiss Senior League!
Tell me Zine, what makes you think Oshie would do better than Mueller in the WHL? Is it because some players have went to the CHL after the NCAA and put more points? Well gee Chris Butler has 28 pts in 60 USHL games yet has 21 pts in only 26 WCHA game! What could that mean??!!! It must mean that the USHL is >>>>>than the NCAA
!!!!!!!! Look for no further proof than Oshie's 5pts in 11 USHL games yet is he not a ppg player in college!The fact of the matter is Oshie played with Mueller in the WJC, and Mueller garnered more points! How can you then say with certainty that if Oshie were in the WHL, he would "tear it up"?
Tell me why the NCAA is better than the CHL again please?
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Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
VOB said:As usual Goph you missed the entire point, which was that all those players jumped right into the NHL from the CHL, meaning what? They had to be better than their NCAA counterparts who were still playing in the NCAA as 20-24 year olds or toiling in the minors before making it the big show.
Well for starters, Spezza had 6pts in the WJC,Phaneuf had 6pts, Heatley had 5, and even a young 17 year old Rick Nash trippled Oshie's point production! And you do realize that players such as Bouwmeester are Dmen, and even a 18 year old Dman doubled Oshie's production!
No Kessel and Bourque cannot be considered Malkin's equals because Malkin did not have Norway to feast on!
Who knows how Joggi would do in the OHL, as he plays in the Swiss Senior League!
Tell me Zine, what makes you think Oshie would do better than Mueller in the WHL? Is it because some players have went to the CHL after the NCAA and put more points? Well gee Chris Butler has 28 pts in 60 USHL games yet has 21 pts in only 26 WCHA game! What could that mean??!!! It must mean that the USHL is >>>>>than the NCAA
The fact of the matter is Oshie played with Mueller in the WJC, and Mueller garnered more points! How can you then say with certainty that if Oshie were in the WHL, he would "tear it up"?
Tell me why the NCAA is better than the CHL again please?
You know as it is this is how it works.........Kids from the States go to the CHL to improve drafting position and play in a better league. That tells the entire story right there.
Now this is where ppl come back at me with oh yea but look at all the Canadian kids who go to the NCAA to play.......well the truth is.....they dont go to the NCAA for the hockey........they go there for the education......Toews is a classic example......he did not go to the NCAA for hockey he went for the Education that was free....his brother is going to likley be the next big example of this.
Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
MN_Gopher said:
Well if you dont like those arguments how about we include this kid named Crosby....you may have heard of him before.
VOB said:
Doesn't matter if someone got 1,2,3,4,5 points, my point (and it obviously flew way over your head), is that every player I mentioned was outscored significantly at a WJC by MANY sub-par players. Again (using your reasoning) how is this possible if the WJC is an exact way of comparing players?...and leagues?
VOB said:
Excuses, excuses. Malkin had Latvia to feast on!!!!!
VOB said:
But according to your reasoning....he should be better than Schremp..shouldn’t he? Schremp was fairly close to starting the year in Edm……Joggi isn’t even good enough to be drafted.
Care to take a stab at these other ones?
* Why isn't Boris Valabik leading the Q in points....seeing that he outscored Radulov?
* SuperNorwegian Mathias Trygg had more points than Nathan Davis...meaning he's better than a PPG player in the NCAA.
* Sebastien Karlsson had more points than Bolland, which would put him up there with Schremp as the leader in OHL scoring. Seeing that Karlsson had 3 pts in 6 Swedish junior games -- Swedish Juniors >>> OHL.
* Aki Seitsonen should be an AHL 1st liner right now.....after all, he did outscore Voloshenko.
* Finnish defensive stalwart Timo Seppanen had 4x as many points as Staal. That would mean Seppanen would have 168 points in the OHL.
I can come up with more if you like.
VOB said:Tell me Zine, what makes you think Oshie would do better than Mueller in the WHL? Is it because some players have went to the CHL after the NCAA and put more points? Well gee Chris Butler has 28 pts in 60 USHL games yet has 21 pts in only 26 WCHA game! What could that mean??!!! It must mean that the USHL is >>>>>than the NCAA
The fact of the matter is Oshie played with Mueller in the WJC, and Mueller garnered more points! How can you then say with certainty that if Oshie were in the WHL, he would "tear it up"
Again, you can cite all the rare Chris Butler's you want.......like that's really common. I'll say it again; you have a habit of trying to prove a point by using rare examples. Try to look at the overall picture.
FACT is, a far larger majority of players who leave the NCAA enjoy greater success in the CHL.....not just 'a few' according to you. Apart from Thelen, I’m seriously having trouble thinking of anybody who had a point reduction in the CHL. Actually, Thelen’s point totals have risen from last year. It’s probably even more unlikely with a player from an elite NCAA school (I’m thinking of UW’s Matt Auffrey off the top of my head for this year….maybe Oreskovich too, although I wouldn’t exactly call Notre Dame elite). If there are any, its only a small handful.
Of course, a good number are a year older when they play in the CHL....however, according to you, age shouldn’t make a difference when comparing both leagues…..right?
If you can name me a significant amount of players who did better in the NCAA than CHL, I’ll concede my point.
Obviously, there's no way to prove anything 100%, but seeing that Oshie is at a PPG in the WCHA, and based on how your average NCAA player has done in the CHL, odds are he'd be putting up some serious points.
Of course, it’s not exact…but it’s A LOT more precise than basing points on 6-7 WJC games.
VOB said:
I just did.
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BroadwayStorm
Registered User
I don't know which one is better. Probably the CHL based on the amount of NHLers. However, in the NCAA they play less games, and you have to deal with the fact that YOU ARE NOT JUST PLAYING HOCKEY YOU ARE ALSO IN COLLEGE. That makes a huge difference with all types of distractions and other responsabilities and more limited practice time and limited everything. The CHL kids while they still go to school are in more of a semi-pro environment where they can focus better on the Hockey and also have 3 times the amount of games and opportunities to develop their play.
All that said... I'd still choose a Peter Mueller over an Jonathan Toews and their respective leagues and stats have a lot to do with it.
All that said... I'd still choose a Peter Mueller over an Jonathan Toews and their respective leagues and stats have a lot to do with it.
Legionnaire
Help On The Way
VOB said:
No it doesn't mean that at all. Because of CHL rules, those players have to be signed after two years. A lot of times clubs are willing to let collegiate players play out their elligibility before being signed.
Trot
Registered User
Zine said:FACT is, a far larger majority of players who leave the NCAA enjoy greater success in the CHL.....not just 'a few' according to you. Apart from Thelen, I’m seriously having trouble thinking of anybody who had a point reduction in the CHL. Actually, Thelen’s point totals have risen from last year. It’s probably even more unlikely with a player from an elite NCAA school (I’m thinking of UW’s Matt Auffrey off the top of my head for this year….maybe Oreskovich too, although I wouldn’t exactly call Notre Dame elite). If there are any, its only a small handful.
Of course, a good number are a year older when they play in the CHL....however, according to you, age shouldn’t make a difference when comparing both leagues…..right?
If you can name me a significant amount of players who did better in the NCAA than CHL, I’ll concede my point.
Obviously, there's no way to prove anything 100%, but seeing that Oshie is at a PPG in the WCHA, and based on how your average NCAA player has done in the CHL, odds are he'd be putting up some serious points.
Of course, it’s not exact…but it’s A LOT more precise than basing points on 6-7 WJC games.
Again I'll bring him up, but Justin Maiser was terrible for Seattle after leaving BU.
Oshie would make Everett (that's who owns his WHL rights) scary good, thanks to Constantine's system.
Ahh but the point you missed my friend was that players such as Heatley and Spezza put up the points, Oshie did not! Besides Spezza's 6pts was only four points less than the leading scorer and 3 points less than the 2nd leading point getter. I wouldn't call that a "significant" margin! Now Oshie - yeah that's a significant lack of production!
The WJC and last summer's evaluation camp is the only tangible evidence we have that can compare Mueller to Oshie! In both tournaments, Mueller outperformed Oshie!
Yeah like Latvia was as weak as Norway!
Remember Latvia BEAT Norway themselves 4-0!!! And besides, we shouldn't be laughing at Latvia anymore, seeing how they just tied our Olympic team! 
More common than you think Zine! Not only were Butler and Oshie's point production seriously lower in the USHL than in the NCAA but so was Wes O'Neil's production! He averaged .30 ppg in the USHL but then watched his ppg shoot up to .52ppg in the NCAA. Or how about Denver's Matt Carle who went from a .71 ppg in the USHL to a .87 in the NCAA? Or how about one of the current top 10 point producers in the NCAA today, Bill Thomas? His ppg as a freshman in the NCAA was identical to his stats in the USHL the year before! The same can be said for freshman Chris Zarb of Ferris State.Same goes for Scott Parse! Now are these players in the minority...sure but they still produced at an equal or greater rate in the USHL than they did in the NCAA. Did they find the game harder in the USHL? Of course not! Alot had to do with their role on their team and the style of game their team employed.
Furthermore, not every former NCAA player's stats ballooned upon going to the CHL. You already mentioned Thelen but there are more. Take a look at Matt Nickerson who went from a .36 ppg in the NCAA to a .25 in the Q. Justin Maiser went from a .58 ppg in Hockey East to .39 in the dub. Most players who do defect to the CHL do so a season later, so it is very difficult to guage how they would have performed in the NCAA if they had remained and compare it to their current performance in the CHL. Sure Comrie lit it up, but remember he was also one of the leading scorers in the NCAA the year before and there is no reason to think that he would not have made a mockery of the NCAA as well had he remained for his Junior year. Other players stats may have gone up...but ever so slightly. A 19 year old VanRyn managed a .62ppg production in the NCAA and a .67ppg in the OHL (as an overager!) but again what would have VanRyn point totals been like had he remained at Michigan????? Alex Lalonde went from a .31ppg as a freshman in the CCHA to a whopping .32ppg as a 19 year old player in the OHL and was cut as an overager his following year! He by the way is averaging .75ppg as a 21 year old in the CIS playing for Calgary - the same team that demolished number 19 ranked LSSU in ThunderBay last month!
Yes you do have an Auffrey who has had a point production increase from a .32 ppg as a freshman for Wisconsin to .74 pgg as a 19 year old in the O but again, how was he used in Wisconsin? Many Wisconsin fans that I talked to were sad to see him go, realizing that his injury set him back but confident that he would have been a contributor had he remained.
The fact is that there is more talent in the CHL than in the NCAA and that the average CHL player is larger, more physical and more talented than his NCAA counterpart. Yes you do have stacked teams like Minnesota but who exactly is Minnesota playing? Isn't Kessel and Irmen and the like getting points by playing teams like Tech, Alaska, Bemidgi, Mankato ect....teams that you said CHL ones can hang with?
So please tell me again why the NCAA is better than the CHL?
VOB said:
But, that wasn’t your original point, or the one I was replying to. You can throw as many stats into the air as you want; I can counter with just as many also (in ’02 an older Spezza had 4 points, 7 less than Cammalleri..an NCAA player – that’s ‘significant’). The point is, with all these discrepancies and irregularities, you can’t compare players based on statistics of a 6-7 game tourney. Even if it’s all you have to go by. Heck, even in the Olympics and WC, average players routinely outscore NHL all-stars.
You have to look at how the player looked on the ice and how they perform statistically over the long haul.
VOB said:
Ummm, no he didn’t. Oshie was a force every time he was on the ice. Mueller showed great promise, especially offensively, but Peter was often overmatched at the WJC level – something that Oshie was NOT.
So I’ll assume we’re in agreement on why we can’t compare players based on WJC stats --- seeing that you're not countering any of those questions I proposed to you.
VOB said:Yeah like Latvia was as weak as Norway!
don’t remind me…terrible game.
VOB said:
So you’re citing 7 players out of the god knows how many that have/are playing USHL/NCAA and you say ‘it’s more common than I think’.
Um…..ok
VOB said:
Great, you named 2 more players. Well, it’s a start. Another 10 years of hockey and maybe we’ll get 6 players that did worse in the CHL.
VOB said:
Whether a player did a lot better, or slightly better in the CHL…..does it matter? Doesn’t it say something that the VAST majority of NCAA players (even from the lesser teams) do better in the CHL? Don’t you think this means anything?
According to you, age plays little difference.
According to you, NCAA players would have a tough time physically in the CHL.
According to you, the average CHL player is larger, more physical and more talented than his NCAA counterpart.
If all of that’s true, why is it FAR MORE LIKELY for NCAArs to do better in the CHL? Seriously, I’d like to hear an answer.
VOB said:Yes you do have an Auffrey who has had a point production increase from a .32 ppg as a freshman for Wisconsin to .74 pgg as a 19 year old in the O but again, how was he used in Wisconsin? Many Wisconsin fans that I talked to were sad to see him go, realizing that his injury set him back but confident that he would have been a contributor had he remained.
Wow, what Badger fans said that? I have season tickets and there was no room for him this year at all. He woulda been part of the 4th line rotation.…..most likely why he left.
He did have potential to be pretty good down the road. Sad to see him go.
VOB said:
There are only a couple bottom feeders in the WCHA…...either way, its been proven that even talent on teams like those routinely do better in the CHL.
VOB said:
Seriously, VOB.....why, despite only 3 per team, are there a disproportionate amount of average (5th round-undrafted) overagers doing so well in the CHL? Actually, many are leading their teams in scoring; it’s a common occurrence every year. I mean these players make up, what, 12% of the league?
In light of this, wouldn’t your typical higher drafted (84-83) NCAA player be doing better? The NCAA is full of ‘em.
Or is your 5th-undrafted, 1985 CHL overager innately better than your 2-5 round 1984-83 NCAA player?
VOB is certainly correct in saying the CHL is a superior developmental league. A lot of talent in the CHL.
Of course players scoring rises if they leave the NCAA for the CHL, because it is a higher scoring league.
If someone finished 10th in league scoring in the NCAA, and comes over to the CHL and also finishes 10th, he will have more points, but he is not relatively more dominant.
Of course players scoring rises if they leave the NCAA for the CHL, because it is a higher scoring league.
If someone finished 10th in league scoring in the NCAA, and comes over to the CHL and also finishes 10th, he will have more points, but he is not relatively more dominant.
Sorry, but again will have to disagree.....production does matter, or should I say lack of production. Oshie was not a scoring threat every time he was on the ice. He did provide his team with the needed energy it sometimes needed but he was not a constant offensive threat. All the players I listed did provide some offense....and in the case of Spezza's 02 production, stats were somewhat warped due to him fighting an injury and flu bug. Spezza, however, did prove himself in the prior year's tourney. Oshie not only had this WJC to put up points, but the summer evaluation camp as well, where once again he did not and was once again showed up by Mueller (and Pineault) in this category.
Isn't it, those are just 7 I listed from a simple quick random search, there are probably more but again you are missing the point...how did these players score less in a lower league and more in the NCAA. One is perhaps an anomoly but 7????It couldn't have anything to do with how these players were used could it? No according to you it must be because these players found the NCAA to be easier and went out and proved it by scoring more "in the long haul".
I already told you and wealthmanagement brought up a point as well. They are used in a different manner in the CHL, you do not know how these players would have performed in the NCAA and the CHL is a more offensive league. Remember, its not like Auffrey, Lehun, Lalonde ect are or have dominated the CHL...rather they are putting up more points because there are more goals being scored.
Look it, have you ever played in both leagues? Thelen has and you know what he said. Mueller played in what 15 NCAA games last year and yet he said he was shocked by how fast and physical the dub was and was taken by surprise and had to adjust very quickly.
phaneuf_fan_3 said:
This is not entirely true. Mueller went to the CHL because he ws not big on school and wanted to focus on hockey. If by improving draft postion. That would mean that if Kessel, J. Johnson, E. Johnson, Dipietro, Heatley, Vanek, Towes would have gone in the CHL they would have improved on their projected or allready drafted 1-5 status. I could go onand on about many top NCAAers that went high. Thelen, Suter, Skille and Stafford. To name a few just out of the top 5.
And Kris Chucko said the reason he choose the NCAAwas strictly because of the hockey. Many other Candians have made simular comments about the NCAA as well.
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And throught this whole thread we have listed what maybe 50 or so names to prove a point. And how many players play NCAA and CHL. In the thousands. Yes Phaneuf and Crosby are talented 18 year olds that could have played in the NCAA and done very well. Ballard and Greene have asserted themselves as non-push overs and very tough young men from the NCAA. But thats 4 names. Was Crosby that good where he single handedly won the CHL championship? If you look and DU form this year to last year. They lost a lot of seniors but got in big name players. So why the struggles. Denver had solid seniors like Laatch, Fulram, Ulanski, Foster, Halme. Those are the guys that are not getting mentioned, But they are the ones that make the difference.
In your next post use Joe Schmo is better at 17-19 form the CHL vs Joe Schmo at 20-22 from the NCAA.
In your next post use Joe Schmo is better at 17-19 form the CHL vs Joe Schmo at 20-22 from the NCAA.
Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
That is garbage......if canadian players choose the NCAA its 99.9% due to schooling.........sure they arent choosing schools where they will never get noticed while playing hockey.......but the reason being they go there is the school.MN_Gopher said:
Players who would choose the NCAA over the CHL are doing it for less hitting possibly and this does not help your draft status if anything puts it in a worse place.......Perfect example is Mike Comrie......guy puts up stats in the NCAA and ppl say he cant do it in the hitting leagues.......he goes to the WHL and does it and gets a contract done by xmas.
phaneuf_fan_3 said:
Would you like me to find the article. And Chucko is not a guy that shys from hitting either. Now why he had that contract. Free agent if he did not sig. Sig him or not. All Comrie did was force a hand.
Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
MN_Gopher said:
Point is Comrie went to the WHL (a better league) to show the scouts and teams that he could play in a grittier tougher league and still compete well....if you think that chucko chose minnesota based solely on hockey ur way off base......he got an education at a school which he wouldnt be able to had he played in the CHL not without at least 1 year of not being elligible at least.
I do notice you didnt comment on Toews or any of the other players who have gone there based on schooling and NOT HOCKEY.
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