Switzerland: National team discussion

[stv11]

Off course, when we take the POs into consideration: If Plüss will be there... there's no spot for i. But I pray to whoever I have to, that Simpson finally sees that Ambühl was a product of Brunner, when he played 1st Line... how many games he played C this year with the Lions? ...definitely not more than a couple...but we had this topic before

I actually agree that Ambühl would be best used as a winger, but unlike you I don't mind him as a center. 2008 was maybe his best tournament and he centered Wick and Bärtschi back then. And Krüger also used him many times as a defensive center.

I just think, this WCC should be the test-tournament for the Olympics... and I want the best talent on the team in Sotchii to medal (or lose in prelimary round), but not this typical swiss between (for a solid 7th or 8th finish). evenmoreso when there's nobody get relegated at the OG. it's the time for risky moves!

I disagree with your point of view here. After missing the quarterfinals twice in a row, I think the team needs a strong showing this year. At the point where Switzerland is now, medalling at the World Championship would be as big as medalling at the Olympics.

How dare you, comparing Bieber to i one is a worker, the other is an artist with soft hands, and with very good situational play-making.

You're probably right about Sprunger.... I just like him very much as a character and player and always thought from all slow, soft and skilled players, he's the guy with the biggest talent (hands, shot, passing) and definitely the best reach... and I still think with a very talented C and a hard working, strong skating partner on the wing (or the other way round), he still could have an impact...especially in PP-Situations and against lesser opponents in must win games.

I mentionned Bieber as an example of a player whose main asset is his speed, it wasn't a direct comparison to i.

Regarding Sprunger, not surprisingly he had his best tournament in 2008 with Sannitz and Monnet, but I think we now have better options.

 

[duga]

I actually agree that Ambühl would be best used as a winger, but unlike you I don't mind him as a center. 2008 was maybe his best tournament and he centered Wick and Bärtschi back then. And Krüger also used him many times as a defensive center.

I know, but I thoroughly think there're better options.

I disagree with your point of view here. After missing the quarterfinals twice in a row, I think the team needs a strong showing this year. At the point where Switzerland is now, medalling at the World Championship would be as big as medalling at the Olympics.

For me the QF are secondary.the style of hockey is more important (of course I don't wnat them to be relegated). because what's the point when you play with a team that gets to the QF but has to let all its energy on the road to come there and has nothing left in the tank to continue? We've had solid results for 10 years now, but what I want is a coach who tries do give his team some freedom on attack against strong competition (it's much less tyring for the players when they spend some time in the O), plus that they don't have to completely chance their game against lesser opponents. And I think Simpson shows this will, and therefore I can live with some subpar results we had over the last years, when the team is on the road for the next step (which I think they are). But if the Federation looks at it similar, I'm not sure. And about medals: of course, a WCC-Medal would be awesome. I just think that the last WCC before OG in general should be used as a test-tournament. and the OG got one beig advantage, you don't have to think about relegation, which makes it much easier for teams like Germany, Switzerland, Latvia or Slovakia to think only one way.

I mentionned Bieber as an example of a player whose main asset is his speed, it wasn't a direct comparison to i.
Regarding Sprunger, not surprisingly he had his best tournament in 2008 with Sannitz and Monnet, but I think we now have better options.

Oups, so I misread it, sorry.

What are your thoughts about Scherwey? or A.Berger? to make the team... (I know I mentioned Berger once a few months ago, and people in here didn't agree at all, but now after his first play-offs what are your impressions?)

 

[swisdan]

Sorry Duga, but how can you even think to add a player like A. Berger? He is just a big player but I cannot see any asset in his game. It's like Scherwey, I think it 's better player than Berger, but it stays an energy player without real skills. I know we don't have a lot of depth but still...

 

[The Noot]

Off course, when we take the POs into consideration: If Plüss will be there... there's no spot for i. But I pray to whoever I have to, that Simpson finally sees that Ambühl was a product of Brunner, when he played 1st Line... how many games he played C this year with the Lions? ...definitely not more than a couple...but we had this topic before



I just think, this WCC should be the test-tournament for the Olympics... and I want the best talent on the team in Sotchii to medal (or lose in prelimary round), but not this typical swiss between (for a solid 7th or 8th finish). evenmoreso when there's nobody get relegated at the OG. it's the time for risky moves!



How dare you, comparing Bieber to i one is a worker, the other is an artist with soft hands, and with very good situational play-making.

You're probably right about Sprunger.... I just like him very much as a character and player and always thought from all slow, soft and skilled players, he's the guy with the biggest talent (hands, shot, passing) and definitely the best reach... and I still think with a very talented C and a hard working, strong skating partner on the wing (or the other way round), he still could have an impact...especially in PP-Situations and against lesser opponents in must win games.

Sprunger is a this best, when he has linemates that are able to take on two opponents to make him some space. In this case, he can be extremely frightening if he gets an open spot near the slot. but keeping him away from the opposing players will be difficult and will most likely cause more troubles than it will bring benefits, at least on international level.
If he'd gain 30lbs and if he starts to actually play his body, this would be a different story...

 

[duga]

Sorry Duga, but how can you even think to add a player like A. Berger? He is just a big player but I cannot see any asset in his game. It's like Scherwey, I think it 's better player than Berger, but it stays an energy player without real skills. I know we don't have a lot of depth but still...

I like to bring the odd one into the disscussion, once in a while. makes it all more interessting IMO. He's big, he got a very nice wrister around the net (you've seen his goal in the POs-final?), he can fight if the germans try to goon it up again (especially when guys like Bezina are missing), and you could put him in front of the net in PP -situations. Of course he's slow, and he doesn't play as hard as I hoped after his NA-adventure. But I'm missing a guy like Gardner on the team, and he would be the closest...

Scherwey's combo of speed, powerskating, checking, strenght, forechecking and recklesness is very unique in Switzerland... so I could forgive about his bad offensive instincts and average hands. (As I've written a few posts above: For me he's one of this few europeens who could end up as a pest in the NHL)

 

[duga]

Sprunger is a this best, when he has linemates that are able to take on two opponents to make him some space. In this case, he can be extremely frightening if he gets an open spot near the slot. but keeping him away from the opposing players will be difficult and will most likely cause more troubles than it will bring benefits, at least on international level.
If he'd gain 30lbs and if he starts to actually play his body, this would be a different story...

figured out nicely,
98% agreement(he does play the body once in awhile... he's just very bad in doing it)

and I'm off!
à bientôt!

 

[swisdan]

I like to bring the odd one into the disscussion, once in a while. makes it all more interessting IMO. He's big, he got a very nice wrister around the net (you've seen his goal in the POs-final?), he can fight if the germans try to goon it up again (especially when guys like Bezina are missing), and you could put him in front of the net in PP -situations. Of course he's slow, and he doesn't play as hard as I hoped after his NA-adventure. But I'm missing a guy like Gardner on the team, and he would be the closest...

Scherwey's combo of speed, powerskating, checking, strenght, forechecking and recklesness is very unique in Switzerland... so I could forgive about his bad offensive instincts and average hands. (As I've written a few posts above: For me he's one of this few europeens who could end up as a pest in the NHL)

Yes i saw his great goal. And I was surprised it was him ;-)

For Scherwey, he is like Deruns before his breaktrough season with Geneva. I dont say he must never be in a WM, but it seems way too early for me. Even if I'm for an younger swiss squad.

About Sprunger, his goal touch can help the team to beat smaller nations. How many snipers do we have in Switzerland? Brunner and him? Besides, he really step up the last 2 seasons and we didnt see him in the last WM and for the next. It's a lock for me for the future.

 

[stv11]

For me the QF are secondary.the style of hockey is more important (of course I don't wnat them to be relegated). because what's the point when you play with a team that gets to the QF but has to let all its energy on the road to come there and has nothing left in the tank to continue? We've had solid results for 10 years now, but what I want is a coach who tries do give his team some freedom on attack against strong competition (it's much less tyring for the players when they spend some time in the O), plus that they don't have to completely chance their game against lesser opponents. And I think Simpson shows this will, and therefore I can live with some subpar results we had over the last years, when the team is on the road for the next step (which I think they are). But if the Federation looks at it similar, I'm not sure. And about medals: of course, a WCC-Medal would be awesome. I just think that the last WCC before OG in general should be used as a test-tournament. and the OG got one beig advantage, you don't have to think about relegation, which makes it much easier for teams like Germany, Switzerland, Latvia or Slovakia to think only one way.

You have to be a bit realistic too. Despite the improvement we've seen over the last ten years, Switzerland is still clearly behind the top 7 talent pools, which means that winning a quarterfinal would be a huge achievement. You seem to oppose Krüger and Simpson's approaches, but Krüger's defensive minded hockey, despite the occasional disappointment, was good for some upsets, usually got the job done and led to close quarterfinals against opponents who had better talent (Switzerland should have beaten Canada in 2000, but against Slovakia in 2003 and 2004, Sweden in 2005 and the US at the Olympics the opponents were better and a bit of luck would have been needed). I'm not sure what you mean when you write that the team had nothing to continue once the quarterfinals were reached, it only happend twice: in 2007 when Switzerland wasn't very good in the first place and lost to the eventual champion, and in 2008 when an improbable combination of results led to a quarterfinal against one of the best World Championship team in recent memories. With Simpson, we've also had strong games against top teams and some disappointment, so two different strategies led to similar results.

My point is, wether you prefer one coach over the other, both had Switzerland were its talent level belongs: right behind the top teams. To reach the next level, we need better players and there's not much a national team coach can do to change this, it takes time and a lot of investment in player developpment.

What are your thoughts about Scherwey? or A.Berger? to make the team... (I know I mentioned Berger once a few months ago, and people in here didn't agree at all, but now after his first play-offs what are your impressions?)

Never been a big fan of that kind of player. Alain Berger wouldn't bring much, we already have players who can bring some toughness while being better skater and having more skills, and I won't change my mind because he managed a highlight worthy shot. Any player can find the top corner once in a while. If the German goon it up, just let them do and score on the power play.

Regarding Scherwey, I hate pests, I prefer to win because I play better hockey, not because I was better at tricking my opponent into taking penalties

 

[stv11]

2-1 loss against Finland, Bodenmann with the goal. Shots 32-23 for Switzerland.

http://bigdata.lahtis-enterprises.com/mem/?cha=cee3317e19236205f3fbc3bace73d23d

 

[swisdan]

2-1 loss against Finland, Bodenmann with the goal. Shots 32-23 for Switzerland.

http://bigdata.lahtis-enterprises.com/mem/?cha=cee3317e19236205f3fbc3bace73d23d

I know you are a Suomi specialit, what is the value of this team on the paper? It seems like a good one.

 

[stv11]

Not really, many of their best players declined the invitation. Anyway, it's hard to make any conclusion from this game without watching it.

 

[goodoldhockeygame]

I know you are a Suomi specialit, what is the value of this team on the paper? It seems like a good one.

Its not a really good team, like he said many declined cause of different reasons top 5 centers are away......... and if there wont come too much help of NA its gonna be a tough tournament for us.....

We played really bad yesterday, swiss were better in most aspects and kinda dominated. even though if the finns play on normal level with this team they should win vs the swiss anyday ))))

 

[stv11]

This team is mostly made of SM-Liiga players and a few KHLers, nothing impressive and certainly not a team who should beat Switzerland, or any other top 12 nation for that matter, "anyday".

 

[goodoldhockeygame]

thats why i made the wink, my last statement wasnt too serious

switzerland is a tough opponent every year, whatever rosters both have......

but teams 9-......wont be a problem even whith the acutel roster...

the finnish team is far away of being impressive. like I said its gonna be tough to compete at wc for us if we wont get major improvement.

 

[stv11]

Well, you never know. Finland's 2011 team wasn't impressive on paper, early in the tournament they were taken to a shootout by Latvia and Germany, and you probably remember how things ended one week later.

Although it's true this year's team doesn't look very impressive. Strange that so many players would decline playing in a home WC.

 

[goodoldhockeygame]

haha yeah. we hope so! i was getting offtopic , lets switch back to the swiss team. soon will be rematch.

you have an idea how the final goalie-tandem will look like?

 

[stv11]

It's already known that Berra, Stephan and Gerber will be the three goalies going to Stockholm, but who will start the tournament is anyone's guess.

From what I've seen in the exhibition games, Berra looks like the best goalie so far. On the other hand, I saw some highlights from Yesterday and Gerber didn't look great on both goals.

 

[ficohok*]

Tonight's lineup, according to the game sheet on finhockey.fi:

Gerber / Stephan

Blindenbacher - Grossmann
Seger - Chiesa
Von Gunten - Blum
Vauclair - Helbling

Suri - Ambühl - Bürgler
Stancescu - Walker - Simek
Bodenman - i - Hollenstein
Bieber - Trachsler - Monnet
Rüfenacht

Not dressed: Berra, Schlumpf, Ramholt, Sciaroni

Why no Hoffmann at preparation games ?

 

[stv11]

Why no Hoffmann at preparation games ?

The coach decided other players were better.

 

[stv11]

New lineup for today's game:

Stephan / Gerber

Ramholt - Schlumpf
Seger - Helbling
Von Gunten - Blindenbacher
Grossmann - Chiesa

Suri - Ambühl - Simek
Stancescu - Trachsler - Bürgler
Bodenmann - i - Hollenstein
Rüfenacht - Walker - Sciaroni
Bieber

Not dressed: Berra, Vauclair, Blum, Monnet

Seems like Simpson is experimenting a bit.

 

[swisdan]

It's so far from a possible JO swiss selection. I think only Ambuehl and perhaps Buergler or Hollenstein should be in the team...

 

[duga]

You have to be a bit realistic too. Despite the improvement we've seen over the last ten years, Switzerland is still clearly behind the top 7 talent pools, which means that winning a quarterfinal would be a huge achievement. You seem to oppose Krüger and Simpson's approaches, but Krüger's defensive minded hockey, despite the occasional disappointment, was good for some upsets, usually got the job done and led to close quarterfinals against opponents who had better talent (Switzerland should have beaten Canada in 2000, but against Slovakia in 2003 and 2004, Sweden in 2005 and the US at the Olympics the opponents were better and a bit of luck would have been needed). I'm not sure what you mean when you write that the team had nothing to continue once the quarterfinals were reached, it only happend twice: in 2007 when Switzerland wasn't very good in the first place and lost to the eventual champion, and in 2008 when an improbable combination of results led to a quarterfinal against one of the best World Championship team in recent memories. With Simpson, we've also had strong games against top teams and some disappointment, so two different strategies led to similar results.

My point is, wether you prefer one coach over the other, both had Switzerland were its talent level belongs: right behind the top teams. To reach the next level, we need better players and there's not much a national team coach can do to change this, it takes time and a lot of investment in player developpment.

What I mean is when you play too many workers and too defensive in the prelimary, chances are big that you're running out of gas, when entering the final rounds... with the riskier system Simpson plays I guess there's just a bigger chance for an upset in the later rounds then there was with Krueger. And with the russians being the only big nation whose starplayers hardly ever refuse an invitation, I just don't think that the gap is that big in WCC.

Never been a big fan of that kind of player. Alain Berger wouldn't bring much, we already have players who can bring some toughness while being better skater and having more skills, and I won't change my mind because he managed a highlight worthy shot. Any player can find the top corner once in a while. If the German goon it up, just let them do and score on the power play.

When having a bit time, finding the topcorners from the slot (normally closer to the net then his goal against FG) is just his biggest strengh for ever, I remember him scoring similar goals for the U20 (on Schäppi's side IIRC). He just hasn't been used that way since returning. His skating is very questionable, there you're right and probably hinders him from having an intern. career. And when he would get a chance, he would be a role player on 4th line with good skating linemates and play the crease in PP situations (Gardner probably won't be an option anymore).

Regarding Scherwey, I hate pests, I prefer to win because I play better hockey, not because I was better at tricking my opponent into taking penalties

I hate him too, and if I'd be Steinmann, he wouldn't have played in the finals anymore (blindsided to the head with all time in the world to realize that the opponent is very vulnerable.... It just reminded me so much of the Savard-Cooke incident)

But there isn't a comparable powerskater in switzerland...he could be the perfect fit for the 4th line.

 

[duga]

It's so far from a possible JO swiss selection. I think only Ambuehl and perhaps Buergler or Hollenstein should be in the team...

Hollenstein is arguably the best swiss forward beside Brunner and Bärtschi and will be a lock for years to come IMO.

 

[stv11]

It's so far from a possible JO swiss selection. I think only Ambuehl and perhaps Buergler or Hollenstein should be in the team...

Hollenstein is a lock, and Trachsler has a good chance to go as a 4th liner. Two of the goalies will make it too, as well as several of the defensemen (Blindenbacher, Vauclair, Seger, Von Gunten and Grossmann all have some good chances to go).

 

[swisdan]

Hollenstein is arguably the best swiss forward beside Brunner and Bärtschi and will be a lock for years to come IMO.

If it can alleviate you, I edit my message and put Hollenstein besides Buergler !