Pred303
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I wouldn't 'undo it' but it's a much bigger short term risk than most everyone makes it out to be.
Confirmed with Link: (NAS/MTL) Shea Weber for P.K. Subban
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I wouldn't 'undo it' but it's a much bigger short term risk than most everyone makes it out to be.
In 3 or 4 years there's almost no doubt in my mind that we'll be reaping the benefits of this trade far more than Montreal will. That sounds obvious because of age but I also see Weber going on a physical decline sooner than may be anticipated. In the mean time it may lean towards an even trade but I don't think that lasts all that long. I do think it's easy to view Weber as the safe player to stick with though, which is fair.
I agree. Josi got a lot of talk last year and now we will see if he is that good.
Short term it's a risk to lose Weber's physicality, long term probably good to get a younger, more dynamic guy.
As I've said many times, hard to believe how Weber went from a to 2 or 3 guy to a broken down hasbeen in many eyes in a manner of a week.
I give Poile credit here, good time to shake it up and he has sure made sure this season will be very interesting one way or the other.
I still say Pekka won't be here this time next year.
I think Rads' enthusiastic reaction to Arnott's goal that knocked Arnott out of the playoffs probably deserved a little harassment. But really, that team was a pretty staid team. The adage "when in Rome do as the Romans do" is quite useful at times. If you're a rookie and your team doesn't jump on each other and jump on the glass after goals...maybe you need to dial it back. PK isn't a rookie, though. The team knows from this trade that their GM wants to see a good show and hopefully he was seeing a general movement in team dynamic toward that.
The talent that Subban brings I don't question. I don't worry overmuch regarding his personality being a culture issue as well since management has been very transparent regarding their acceptance of his personality, most of the team is of a younger generation, and leader of the old guard (Fisher) spends enough time in the "entertainment" world to work with it if it happens to bother him.
I'm a bit more worried over how that top 4 is paired together.
Weber-Josi worked pretty well together in that it had such a physical presence in Weber to help break a cycle and Josi did the puck moving. Unfortunately, those roles were so siloed, opponents keyed on Josi (plus other issues with matching forwards).
With Ekholm-Ellis, both were good puck movers and Ekholm was physical enough to break opponents cycling on them. Ellis is very limited in ability to be physical.
If Subban realizes that he has play that physical role with Josi, his pairing with Josi will work well as it makes them an even better version of Ekholm-Ellis. Again, Josi is limited in his ability to be physical with opposing forwards.
Subban-Ekholm would be very good pairing, but I'd be extremely worried that a Josi-Ellis pairing would be penned into their own zone too often.
I'm not too hopeful of the results if anyone else plays in that top 4 for a long period of time.
(I have no comment about "undoing" the trade. It's done, so I'm going to focus on the Predators line up as is at this time.)
I am still convinced that our window for a Cup is the next two years and I am more comfortable with the "known" of Weber than the unknown of Subban. I hope Im wrong. I probably am.
nomorekids
The original, baby
It's not like Subban is really all that "unknown." He's won a Norris trophy. He's considered one of the three best two-way defensemen in the entire league. His underlying numbers show that he drives the play at an elite level. The trade was made because, in Poile's mind...and in the minds of a lot of experts...this makes the Predators a better team right now. It's not a knock on Weber or what he does...it's just a simple fact that with Subban, the Predators will spend more time attacking with the puck, less time defending in their own end, which theoretically translates to a more productive offense at the expense of a slightly decreased transition defense. This isn't really based on a lot of hopeful optimism, it's based on a thorough examination of the player.
I'm with you in missing Weber...my heart still aches to see him in a different sweater, but my head says that this makes the Predators better now and much better going forward.
nomorekids
The original, baby
I don't either. I think that anything suggesting that it won't be Josi-Subban is lip service, in the end.
NSH615
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While Subban may have a trophy and may have a reputation as a great defenseman, he is still an unknown. Anytime a player changes teams it is an unknown. A recent example of this could be found in Matt Cullen. He was mediocre here and was much better in Pittsburgh last year. We do not know if Subban will mesh well here with our other guys, we did know that Weber did mesh well.
My whole thing about the pros and cons of Subban here is that it has to be a complete disaster for it to hurt us. Weber's peak has largely passed and PK's is happening now and likely for a few more years. I still don't see a normal scenario where the benefit of a younger Subban fails to outweigh that of an older Weber in the long term. I don't believe that we have a brief Cup window either. As long as we have sufficient goaltending I think we can compete for the forseeable (sp?) future. Yeah Rinne is older but our oldest core player is....Subban at 27? Neal at 28? I think we're fine now and down the road personally.
Agree with all of this. I am honestly surprised by some of the reactions on here. I know we all love Weber and it hurts like heck to lose him. But some people are acting like we are bringing in an unproven player or something. Of course it is always a question of how someone will fit in, but he PK is in no way an "unknown or unproven" player.
It feels like the more time goes on, the more people on here are turning against the trade...
I know its a risk, but with the way the NHL game is changing to a speed game, I am 100% behind the trade and no way I would undo it....
I think (at least at this point) the trade is really a wash for this season. At least in regulation. I think what a lot of people are overlooking is how terrible Weber is at 3 on 3 and how much better (at least potentially) Subban is. Honestly, as bad as the Preds were in OT last year, an upgrade there may have a more significant impact on the standings than any roster changes designed for regulation play.
Hurricanes fan here!
Just want to say y'all got the better in of this trade by a mile. Was just curious on PK Subban's injury. I drafted him with my 2nd round pick in fantasy, and it says he's currently out with injury. Is this a new injury or is it the neck injury from last season?
Just want to say y'all got the better in of this trade by a mile. Was just curious on PK Subban's injury. I drafted him with my 2nd round pick in fantasy, and it says he's currently out with injury. Is this a new injury or is it the neck injury from last season?
to clarify, its not that I feel he's "unproven" but it is definitely "unknown" how he will gel with the team. There are times when a great player isn't a good fit. Now, as others have said, my head tells me PK is a perfect fit for laves style... but I wont feel comfortable until; I see us winning regularly with him
I think long term better, but by "a mile"? No way. Again, Weber is not Hal Gill overnight.
I think Subban is a better fit long term, but it's going to take a while due to the brute physicality of Weber freeing up Josi.
I like Subban a lot, love how he will infuse some personality and his dynamic play. But he is not head and shoulders better than Weber, if he is even better at all.
Like you I agree it's not by much if at all, and it's certainly not "by a mile"
sparkle twin
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Probably from last season's last known report. He's healthy as far as we know. He's had clips of him weightlifting on Instagram, and if he's lifting what he's lifting, I'm guessing he's healthy.
ThirdManIn
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LarryO
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In a recent TV interview when asked how he was concerning his neck injury, he said that he was 100%.
Price is Wright
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Carey Price's opinion
Here is Carey Price's opinion in an excerpt from a Sportsnet article:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/23-minutes-shook-hockey-world/
<<The most important opinion is Price’s. As he arrived for World Cup training camp, he said he did not know about the trade beforehand.
“No, I was shocked like everyone else. But I had an idea that it was possible. The way our game is structured and the way P.K. plays…we’re headed in a different direction.â€
Can you explain what you mean by that?
“P.K. is an offensive defenceman and a risk-taker. That’s made him successful, that’s the way he plays the game. He doesn’t want to change that and I respect that. I respect the way that he plays the game…his type of enthusiasm and his ability to raise fans out of their seats. That’s a special gift and something that not very many players are able to do. But the way we’re coached on our team, the way our team is structured, that’s not what were looking for. We’re looking for a steady type of defenceman that makes quick plays and is able to move the puck right away. Sheafits that bill perfectly.â€>>
Here is Carey Price's opinion in an excerpt from a Sportsnet article:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/23-minutes-shook-hockey-world/
<<The most important opinion is Price’s. As he arrived for World Cup training camp, he said he did not know about the trade beforehand.
“No, I was shocked like everyone else. But I had an idea that it was possible. The way our game is structured and the way P.K. plays…we’re headed in a different direction.â€
Can you explain what you mean by that?
“P.K. is an offensive defenceman and a risk-taker. That’s made him successful, that’s the way he plays the game. He doesn’t want to change that and I respect that. I respect the way that he plays the game…his type of enthusiasm and his ability to raise fans out of their seats. That’s a special gift and something that not very many players are able to do. But the way we’re coached on our team, the way our team is structured, that’s not what were looking for. We’re looking for a steady type of defenceman that makes quick plays and is able to move the puck right away. Sheafits that bill perfectly.â€>>
Thanks, that's what a lot of people are arguing on the Habs board. PK will thrive in Nashville's system. That's basically what Price is saying but I know you're not biased
I don't doubt that Weber will thrive in Montreal because of the system (at least while his body can hold up), but from an outsider's perspective I get the feeling that the fans there don't want to play said system and that's where the beef lies. The whole system over Subban scenario.Thanks, that's what a lot of people are arguing on the Habs board. PK will thrive in Nashville's system. That's basically what Price is saying but I know you're not biased
Hopefully for both teams it turns into a win-win, one-for-one deal much like Johansen for Jones is shaping into for both Nashville and Columbus.
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