My Hart Trophy Winner Today is ...

[Sypher04]

MacKinnon should win with McDavid and Matthews as finalists imo

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I don't think he should win but this logic doesn't work when the Art Ross trophy exists.


Matthews is not going to win but Kucherov is likely going to be a finalist strictly because of point totals when there is already an award for most points in a season. Apply your standards consistently or don't have them at all.

It's hard to argue why a player who has the most combined points shouldn't be considered as the league's most valuable player as it shows that the player can score goals and create goals for others at a rate that is unmatched. Said player is often, but not always, the most valuable in the league and is reflected as such.

 

[Maplebeasts]

It's hard to argue why a player who has the most combined points shouldn't be considered as the league's most valuable player as it shows that the player can score goals and create goals for others at a rate that is unmatched. Said player is often, but not always, the most valuable in the league and is reflected as such.

Because hockey isn't just a game about offensive generation. It's about a combination of what you generate while you're on the ice vs. what you give up while on it. Kucherov is having the best offensive season in the NHL, but the reality is out of the consensus top 4 he

1. Plays the least valuable position without debate. Centers are always more valuable than wingers as they have significantly more responsibilities in the defensive zone and in transition.
2. Hasn't separated himself enough offensively from McDavid or Mackinnon to overcome reason 1 and
3. Is easily the worst defensive player in the top 4.

Outside of having slightly more points than McDavid or Mackinnon why should he win?

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Because hockey isn't just a game about offensive generation. It's about a combination of what you generate while you're on the ice vs. what you give up while on it. Kucherov is having the best offensive season in the NHL, but the reality is out of the consensus top 4 he

1. Plays the least valuable position without debate. Centers are always more valuable than wingers as they have significantly more responsibilities in the defensive zone and in transition.
2. Hasn't separated himself enough offensively from McDavid or Mackinnon to overcome reason 1 and
3. Is easily the worst defensive player in the top 4.

Outside of having slightly more points than McDavid or Mackinnon why should he win?

First of all, I never said I think he should. Secondly, the award is for the player most valuable to his team. He's got 50 more points than any of his teammates. I don't understand how he can't be seen as one of the more valuable players to his team.

 

[Maplebeasts]

First of all, I never said I think he should. Secondly, the award is for the player most valuable to his team. He's got 50 more points than any of his teammates. I don't understand how he can't be seen as one of the more valuable players to his team.

He is, but I would argue as a winger who is porous defensively he shouldn't be seen as the favourite, or even the second best option. The Oilers would be outside the playoff picture without McDavid. He is just as strong offensively as Kucherov while doing it as a center and being a significantly better performer overall at 5 on 5 when accounting for offense and defense.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

He is, but I would argue as a winger who is porous defensively he shouldn't be seen as the favourite, or even the second best option. The Oilers would be outside the playoff picture without McDavid. He is just as strong offensively as Kucherov while doing it as a center and being a significantly better performer overall at 5 on 5 when accounting for offense and defense.

Agreed

 

[Buck Naked]

But from a hart perspective, I'd say that the Avalanche are probably in the playoffs without MacKinnon while Tampa would be nowhere near without Kucherov.

Someone didn't watch the Avs this season. MacK is carrying that team on an almost nightly basis.

 

[majormajor]

But from a hart perspective, I'd say that the Avalanche are probably in the playoffs without MacKinnon while Tampa would be nowhere near without Kucherov.

I hope someday the league drops the confusing language "most valuable to his team" and just goes with "most valuable player". It would avoid all these silly arguments about team strength and whoever else these guys play with, which really isn't relevant in my opinion. That and the arguments are almost always wrong anyways, the Avs depend on Mackinnon to an absurd degree this year.

 

[Bouboumaster]

If somehow Pittsburgh a going into playoffs, I'd give it to Crosby I think, since he's pretty much willing the team into competition right now

 

[Buck Naked]

If somehow Pittsburgh a going into playoffs, I'd give it to Crosby I think, since he's pretty much willing the team into competition right now

Isn't it better to vote for someone who didn't wait until the end to do that? I mean, if you carried your team during basically the entire season, shouldn't that count for more than if you started late and just barely made it? Had the Pens been safely in at this point, I would agree that he might be worthy of some 4-5th place votes here and there. But to win a few games at the end of the season to juuuust squeeze yourself in, who is that more impressive than what MacKinnon, McDavid, and Kucherov's been up to basically all year long?

 

[Regal]

Isn't it better to vote for someone who didn't wait until the end to do that? I mean, if you carried your team during basically the entire season, shouldn't that count for more than if you started late and just barely made it? Had the Pens been safely in at this point, I would agree that he might be worthy of some 4-5th place votes here and there. But to win a few games at the end of the season to juuuust squeeze yourself in, who is that more impressive than what MacKinnon, McDavid, and Kucherov's been up to basically all year long?

I wouldn’t say he waited to get going. He’s been really good all year long save for a brief stretch around the trade deadline. But as good as he still is, I think he’s too far down the list of best players this year to garner much support even if he means a lot to his team.

 

[Buck Naked]

I wouldn’t say he waited to get going. He’s been really good all year long save for a brief stretch around the trade deadline. But as good as he still is, I think he’s too far down the list of best players this year to garner much support even if he means a lot to his team.

I'm not sure I agree. Remember when the Pens couldn't convert on the PP for, what felt like, months? That's a pretty important part of the game, and I would say that Crosby is a huge part of that failure. They're still the second worst team in that regard.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Isn't it better to vote for someone who didn't wait until the end to do that? I mean, if you carried your team during basically the entire season, shouldn't that count for more than if you started late and just barely made it? Had the Pens been safely in at this point, I would agree that he might be worthy of some 4-5th place votes here and there. But to win a few games at the end of the season to juuuust squeeze yourself in, who is that more impressive than what MacKinnon, McDavid, and Kucherov's been up to basically all year long?

All those other teams have two or three players that are helping, Crosby is basically a one Man show imo

 

[gritdash60]

McDavid for me, Rantanen can carry Avs if need be. he has done it, Kuch isnt even close to the player he is if not Vasi and Hedman (and Point). Oilers are a shit team without McDavid, easy winner for me.

 

[Buck Naked]

McDavid for me, Rantanen can carry Avs if need be. he has done it, Kuch isnt even close to the player he is if not Vasi and Hedman (and Point). Oilers are a shit team without McDavid, easy winner for me.

You mean .900 Vasi with a -5.3 GSAA?

 

[gritdash60]

You mean .900 Vasi with a -5.3 GSAA?

Cups matter, not regular season SV%

 

[pegcity]

Matthews because he will get selke consideration along with finishing in the top 10 in points.

 

[Buck Naked]

Cups matter, not regular season SV%

Yes, the cups from a few years ago sure matters in a thread about the 23/24 Hart Trophy.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Because hockey isn't just a game about offensive generation. It's about a combination of what you generate while you're on the ice vs. what you give up while on it. Kucherov is having the best offensive season in the NHL, but the reality is out of the consensus top 4 he

1. Plays the least valuable position without debate. Centers are always more valuable than wingers as they have significantly more responsibilities in the defensive zone and in transition.
2. Hasn't separated himself enough offensively from McDavid or Mackinnon to overcome reason 1 and
3. Is easily the worst defensive player in the top 4.

Outside of having slightly more points than McDavid or Mackinnon why should he win?

pretty damning evidence tho about your assessment of Kucherov's "porous" defensive play when he's only behind MacKinnon in +/- differential.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Kucherov.

MacKinnon and Panarin as finalists.

 

[General Fanager]

I voted N. MacK

but my real answer is Crosby (if The Pens make it)

 

[authentic]

Matthews because he will get selke consideration along with finishing in the top 10 in points.

More importantly, the first runaway Rocket winner to even be in any type of conversation for the Selke.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I hope someday the league drops the confusing language "most valuable to his team" and just goes with "most valuable player". It would avoid all these silly arguments about team strength and whoever else these guys play with, which really isn't relevant in my opinion. That and the arguments are almost always wrong anyways, the Avs depend on Mackinnon to an absurd degree this year.

The even bigger issue with the current definition is some of the media break it down even further to simply "remove this player and does his team miss the playoffs" rather than rewarding someone who turns a 5th seed into a 1st seed.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I voted N. MacK

but my real answer is Crosby (if The Pens make it)

Crosby is my fav player. But hes not sniffing a hart with 90 or so points while mack n kuch exceed 140. Just not realistic

 

[keglu]

Matthews because he will get selke consideration along with finishing in the top 10 in points.

In 08/09 Datsuyk won Selke, was 4th in scoring around 15 points behind best and still lost Hart voting to both Ovi and Malkin