Proposal: MTL - DET

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Benstheman

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Nov 20, 2014
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I think we should be cautious, public reports do not tell the whole truth. Look at last year, Seider ending up 6 OA, Caufield 15 OA. Look at Pastrnak at 23 and Galchenyuk at 3, who was supposed to be the next great thing ;)

We have a biais because every year we get more information about the players, not sure it means they are better :)

Agreed, Sanderson and Askarov might shake the top 7 order. Also the fact that Ott and NJ have 2 picks each in the top 10 might alter the order a bit. But quite frankly, can't see the top 6-7 change much, in terms of pleyers who will be there, not the order.
 

RationalExpectations

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May 12, 2019
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Agreed, Sanderson and Askarov might shake the top 7 order. Also the fact that Ott and NJ have 2 picks each in the top 10 might alter the order a bit. But quite frankly, can't see the top 6-7 change much, in terms of pleyers who will be there, not the order.

Well I agree with you on this point, most of the time, the top is quite set from the beginning, but let us see whether it is NHL talent or Junior league talent that we get. ;)
 
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WingsMJN2965

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I think we should be cautious, public reports do not tell the whole truth. Look at last year, Seider ending up 6 OA, Caufield 15 OA. Look at Pastrnak at 23 and Galchenyuk at 3, who was supposed to be the next great thing ;)

We have a biais because every year we get more information about the players, not sure it means they are better :)

I think it a lot of situations, players like Galchenyuk going the way they go is the result of piss poor development.

MTL is pretty good at developing prospects, but for some reason when Bergervin gets his hands on a potential top line center, he can't resist bringing them up, even when it's too early.
 

alasania94

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God knows the likes of Larkin/Mantha/Bertuzzi/Fabbri/Hronek are all old farts who wont be able to contribute by the time the likes of Zadina/Seider/Rasmussen/Veleno/Lottery come up.
That is by no means a competitive team LOL. Lets break it down per player:

Mantha/Larkin/Bertuzzi - Respectable 1st line. Definitely nowhere near what you want as your first line on a contender, not a single one of them has or projects as a PPG type player and lack "elite" factor.
rest of the team has Fabbri as a plug in top 6 option that works. Literally the rest of your forward group is awful.

You can EXPECT AT BEST, and this is if they don't just bust entirely:

Zadina: turn into a top 6 winger
Seider: top 2 D
Rasmussen: top 9 winger
Veleno: top 9 Center
McIsaac: top 4 D

Plus your lottery pick which has a 16% chance of being #1.

You have absolutely no depth on this team, are banking on 3-4 prospects to reach their ceilings (that are nowhere near elite) and you have the worst D in the league. Team is FAR from contending. Give me a break lol.
 

njx9

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You have absolutely no depth on this team, are banking on 3-4 prospects to reach their ceilings (that are nowhere near elite) and you have the worst D in the league. Team is FAR from contending. Give me a break lol.

Do you think if you bludgeon Wings fans enough times with how awful they are and how none of their prospects can possibly pan out under any circumstances (because you say so, of course), they'll accept whatever it is you want to offer? I've never understood why half the people who post proposals go with this strategy.
 

RationalExpectations

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May 12, 2019
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Do you think if you bludgeon Wings fans enough times with how awful they are and how none of their prospects can possibly pan out under any circumstances (because you say so, of course), they'll accept whatever it is you want to offer? I've never understood why half the people who post proposals go with this strategy.

I think that is not his point, if I may, I think he wants to show that Mantha does not fit the contending window of DET and that it would be more profitable for DET to trade him for futures ready in 4 years (which I tend to agree with even though I understand some people disagree) because you may get "more" for the time of contention. But I agree the communication strategy is a bit aggressive :D

I think the perception of all fan bases about DET is that you have Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi with trade value but nothing else and hence they try to make proposals for these players, which from their perspective make sense. :)
 
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alasania94

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Do you think if you bludgeon Wings fans enough times with how awful they are and how none of their prospects can possibly pan out under any circumstances (because you say so, of course), they'll accept whatever it is you want to offer? I've never understood why half the people who post proposals go with this strategy.
I was just replying to his sarcasm with my own. If you're gonna try to make me look stupid by implying that I said those players would be "old farts" by the time their prospects aged, then you deserve it. Simple as that. RationaleExpectations explained what I meant perfectly. This trade proposal is an over payment on the HABS part because we're sacrificing more in futures for immediate help.
 

WingsMJN2965

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That is by no means a competitive team LOL. Lets break it down per player:

Mantha/Larkin/Bertuzzi - Respectable 1st line. Definitely nowhere near what you want as your first line on a contender, not a single one of them has or projects as a PPG type player and lack "elite" factor.
rest of the team has Fabbri as a plug in top 6 option that works. Literally the rest of your forward group is awful.

You can EXPECT AT BEST, and this is if they don't just bust entirely:

Zadina: turn into a top 6 winger
Seider: top 2 D
Rasmussen: top 9 winger
Veleno: top 9 Center
McIsaac: top 4 D

Plus your lottery pick which has a 16% chance of being #1.

You have absolutely no depth on this team, are banking on 3-4 prospects to reach their ceilings (that are nowhere near elite) and you have the worst D in the league. Team is FAR from contending. Give me a break lol.

Good to know the best case scenario for Zadina is a top 6 winger and the best case scenario for Veleno and Rasmussen is to be top 9 players. :laugh:
 

alasania94

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Good to know the best case scenario for Zadina is a top 6 winger and the best case scenario for Veleno and Rasmussen is to be top 9 players. :laugh:
Zadina is the safest of the bunch and hasn't done anything to warrant being projected higher than a top 6 winger? (which in it's own is a great scenario if he pans out? He could also be a top line winger, let's give you that)

Veleno just put up 0.43 ppg in the AHL as a 20 year old after playing 5 seasons in the OHL. That is less production than Seider that is 1 year younger and a defensemen lol...Top 9 forward is VERY reasonable?

Rasmussen, who is a year older than veleno, played an entire NHL season, got sent back down to the AHL where he was projected to end the season with 50 points over an 82 game schedule. in the AHL. top 9 forward? ONCE AGAIN VERY REASONABLE. lol

How about you back up your statements with facts or stats instead of laughing emoji's???
 

WingsMJN2965

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Zadina is the safest of the bunch and hasn't done anything to warrant being projected higher than a top 6 winger? (which in it's own is a great scenario if he pans out? He could also be a top line winger, let's give you that)

Veleno just put up 0.43 ppg in the AHL as a 20 year old after playing 5 seasons in the OHL. That is less production than Seider that is 1 year younger and a defensemen lol...Top 9 forward is VERY reasonable?

Rasmussen, who is a year older than veleno, played an entire NHL season, got sent back down to the AHL where he was projected to end the season with 50 points over an 82 game schedule. in the AHL. top 9 forward? ONCE AGAIN VERY REASONABLE. lol

How about you back up your statements with facts or stats instead of laughing emoji's???

Zadina averaged half a PPG in his D+2 season playing with offensive-driving linemates such as Glendening, Helm, and Filppula. If you actually watched Wings games, which you clearly don't, (And I don't blame you) you'd see a player that was setting up offensive opportunity after offensive opportunity for linemates who have zero ability to finish.

Veleno put up half a PPG in the AHL as an underager? Damn... You're right, that's pretty good. Especially for a guy that's mainly spoken highly of for how well-rounded his game is.

Rasmussen never got "Sent back down" to the AHL, because he was never eligible for the AHL before this year. Being a 6' 6" 220 pounder beating up on 16 year olds in Junior would've done nothing for his development, and he wasn't AHL eligible, so the NHL was his only option last year.

So yes, do tell me more about how that's the best case scenario. :biglaugh:
 

njx9

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Feb 1, 2016
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I think that is not his point, if I may, I think he wants to show that Mantha does not fit the contending window of DET and that it would be more profitable for DET to trade him for futures ready in 4 years (which I tend to agree with even though I understand some people disagree) because you may get "more" for the time of contention. But I agree the communication strategy is a bit aggressive :D

I think the perception of all fan bases about DET is that you have Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi with trade value but nothing else and hence they try to make proposals for these players, which from their perspective make sense. :)

He previously stated the contending window was in 3-4 years. Mantha will be, at worst, 30. If you think that means he doesn't fit the window, I don't know what to tell you. If you think that means that a trade for a bag of magic beans is something any Wings fan should get excited about, I *really* don't know what to tell you.

I was just replying to his sarcasm with my own. If you're gonna try to make me look stupid by implying that I said those players would be "old farts" by the time their prospects aged, then you deserve it. Simple as that. RationaleExpectations explained what I meant perfectly. This trade proposal is an over payment on the HABS part because we're sacrificing more in futures for immediate help.

Grow up, dude.
 
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ChesterNimitz

governed by the principle of calculated risk
Jul 4, 2002
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This upcoming draft presents one of the deepest top 10, or even top 15, in recent years. While some players picked may become stars, or even superstars, almost all non-playoff teams this year will be getting a player who should become and develop into an integral part of that team's core.
 

TS Quint

I can see!
Sep 8, 2012
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Like half their roster is turning over next season. Detroit's young roster players and top prospects are better than you seem to think, don't be surprised if they start moving toward being a playoff team in the next couple years. It's strange that most people don't seem to comprehend that Detroit was really bad because of all the dead weight vets like Howard, Nielsen, Abdelkader, Filpulla, Ericsson, Daley, etc, etc. The young, core roster players Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Hronek, Zadina were bright spots. Add in a top D prospect in Seider, a potential franchise F in Laf, Byfield, or Stutzle + 5 more top 70 picks in 2020, some good prospects that could hit such as Veleno, McIsaac, Tuomisto, Rasmussen, Mastrosimone, Berggren, Soderblom, Petruzelli and there's some promise there.
Only on HF is 25 years old over the hill.
 

TS Quint

I can see!
Sep 8, 2012
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This upcoming draft presents one of the deepest top 10, or even top 15, in recent years. While some players picked may become stars, or even superstars, almost all non-playoff teams this year will be getting a player who should become and develop into an integral part of that team's core.
Maybe they will even get a player as good as Mantha if they are lucky.
 

alasania94

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Zadina averaged half a PPG in his D+2 season playing with offensive-driving linemates such as Glendening, Helm, and Filppula. If you actually watched Wings games, which you clearly don't, (And I don't blame you) you'd see a player that was setting up offensive opportunity after offensive opportunity for linemates who have zero ability to finish.

Veleno put up half a PPG in the AHL as an underager? Damn... You're right, that's pretty good. Especially for a guy that's mainly spoken highly of for how well-rounded his game is.

Rasmussen never got "Sent back down" to the AHL, because he was never eligible for the AHL before this year. Being a 6' 6" 220 pounder beating up on 16 year olds in Junior would've done nothing for his development, and he wasn't AHL eligible, so the NHL was his only option last year.

So yes, do tell me more about how that's the best case scenario. :biglaugh:
Half a PPG after 5 years in the ohl is UNDERWHELMING lol. That is not good production at all.

Also, beating up on 16 year olds? Rasmussen's best season in juniors, was his third where he put up a whopping 1.25 PPG LMAO the only time he beat up on anyone (as an oversized 6'6 third year WHL player) was in the playoffs, where he has a single amazing run. That is absolutely AWFUL production for a 6'6 third year player.

Here are similar producing players in their age range in the AHL:

Veleno:

Tobias Bjornfort, a D prospect younger than him putting up better PPG
Oliver Wahlstrom (who's been considered on a terrible trend since being drafted) put up a better PPG than Veleno at the same age
Rasmus Sandin, another D prospect in his first year putting better PPG than Veleno
Kotkaniemi, same age as Veleno, putting up twice the production in the AHL

Don't even get me started on Rasmussen who for your information played in the NHL FIRST then was sent down to the AHL where he produced underwhelimg number as a genetic freak. Please stop over valuing your propects sir.

Here are exerpts on both players from the Athletic: CHECK OUT THE BOLD :)

2. Joe Veleno, C, 20 (Grand Rapids Griffins)
Veleno’s world juniors performance was weird to watch because he didn’t play the same style or role that he did in junior. Though Veleno isn’t shy, he was much more of a sparkplug than I expected him to be — and I’m not just talking about the headbutt; he wasn’t leaving anything out there and finished all of his checks. He was also regularly among Canada’s leaders in ice time, called upon to play big minutes and contribute. Though he wasn’t among the best players in the tournament, Veleno had an impact throughout and it was likely a much-needed reprieve from an up-and-down rookie campaign in the AHL.
“We all love him. He does all the little things and he’s just a good guy. He’s a guy that people gravitate towards,” said Team Canada forward Akil Thomas.
I’ve long been a big proponent of Veleno’s game and upside, ranking him in my top 15 throughout the 2018 draft year. He’s a north-south skater who can make plays off the rush, create partial breaks for himself, lose a defender with a stop-up and contribute on the power play as a pass-first option with above-average finishing touch (though I wouldn’t say he’s a natural scorer). He’s also a responsible off-puck player who wins battles, tracks the play well, swings low defensively and rarely cheats, even if his ugly plus-minus might have you think otherwise. He projects fairly safely as a third-line centre but I think there’s enough playmaking skill to potentially become a 2C. He’s going to start putting up numbers in the AHL sooner rather than later.

3. Michael Rasmussen, C/LW, 20 (Grand Rapids Griffins)
I normally wouldn’t include a player who spent virtually all of last season in the NHL. But Rasmussen also hasn’t played a game in the NHL this season, he’s only 20 and lost time to his back injury which all combine to create the same kind of uncertainty that is typical of a prospect. There aren’t many 6-foot-6 players in the NHL these days, let alone ones that produce offensively, so Rasmussen is trying to become a bit of a unique player in that regard. In his draft year I felt he was picked too high and that it might prove difficult for him to match his defensive prowess, his goal scoring touch and his length with the other necessary puck skills needed to be a playmaker at the NHL level. And while he will always have the tools to be a depth forward, he has to show more aptitude with the puck on his stick which has helped him become more of a threat off the rush. He’s also got great reflexes on tips and redirects if they decide to use him in front off the net on the power play. He’s not going to be a star or drive a line but he increasingly looks like someone who can help the Wings in all situations.
 

J15

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Mar 18, 2009
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That is by no means a competitive team LOL. Lets break it down per player:

Mantha/Larkin/Bertuzzi - Respectable 1st line. Definitely nowhere near what you want as your first line on a contender, not a single one of them has or projects as a PPG type player and lack "elite" factor.
rest of the team has Fabbri as a plug in top 6 option that works. Literally the rest of your forward group is awful.

You can EXPECT AT BEST, and this is if they don't just bust entirely:

Zadina: turn into a top 6 winger
Seider: top 2 D
Rasmussen: top 9 winger
Veleno: top 9 Center
McIsaac: top 4 D

Plus your lottery pick which has a 16% chance of being #1.

You have absolutely no depth on this team, are banking on 3-4 prospects to reach their ceilings (that are nowhere near elite) and you have the worst D in the league. Team is FAR from contending. Give me a break lol.

I mean the Wings are bad, that's not exactly a hot take but you're making it pretty clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. If you want to criticize their lack of elite forwards that's fair, but they're bursting at the seems with players that are clearly top 6 players. In other words, depth is absolutely not their problem. Their D looks like it'll be fine as well. Hronek is a top pairing D already, and Seider looks like he's well on the way. McIsaac, Tuomisto, Johanssen all have realistic top 4 potential. If half of their prospects continue on their current and they can get a couple good FA signings they'll be competitive in 2 years.

Laf - X - Zadina (or X - Byfield/Stuzle - Zadina)
Bert - Larkin - Mantha
Fabbri - Veleno - Rasmussen
Glendening - Helm - Smith

+ Svechnikov, Grewe, Bergerren

Seider - Hronek
McIsaac - DeKeyser
Johanssen - Lindstrom

+ Tuomisto, Cholowski

I think a lot of fans who don't follow the Wings can watch the standings and assume that the situation is a lot worse than it actually is. Anyone who followed closely could see that the reason they performed so poorly (especially compared to last year) is because a number of players had historically awful performances.

Frans Nielson 9 pts in 60 GP
Adam Erne 5 pts in 56 GP
Justin Abdelkader 3 pts in 49 GP
Brendan Perlini 4 pts in 29 GP
Christoffer Ehn 4 pts in 54 GP
Jimmy Howard 2 wins in 27 starts (4.20 GAA)

Good news is none of these players are part of the future, and Blashill is likely gone as well. Despite the standings, it's a refreshing change from the years of Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, and Kronwall because for once the players that are performing well are actually part of the long term future, and the players holding the team back are not. The Wings will be fine, your analysis is awful.
 

lucaseider

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Apr 15, 2006
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Half a PPG after 5 years in the ohl is UNDERWHELMING lol. That is not good production at all.

Also, beating up on 16 year olds? Rasmussen's best season in juniors, was his third where he put up a whopping 1.25 PPG LMAO the only time he beat up on anyone (as an oversized 6'6 third year WHL player) was in the playoffs, where he has a single amazing run. That is absolutely AWFUL production for a 6'6 third year player.

Here are similar producing players in their age range in the AHL:

Veleno:

Tobias Bjornfort, a D prospect younger than him putting up better PPG
Oliver Wahlstrom (who's been considered on a terrible trend since being drafted) put up a better PPG than Veleno at the same age
Rasmus Sandin, another D prospect in his first year putting better PPG than Veleno
Kotkaniemi, same age as Veleno, putting up twice the production in the AHL

Don't even get me started on Rasmussen who for your information played in the NHL FIRST then was sent down to the AHL where he produced underwhelimg number as a genetic freak. Please stop over valuing your propects sir.

Here are exerpts on both players from the Athletic: CHECK OUT THE BOLD :)

2. Joe Veleno, C, 20 (Grand Rapids Griffins)
Veleno’s world juniors performance was weird to watch because he didn’t play the same style or role that he did in junior. Though Veleno isn’t shy, he was much more of a sparkplug than I expected him to be — and I’m not just talking about the headbutt; he wasn’t leaving anything out there and finished all of his checks. He was also regularly among Canada’s leaders in ice time, called upon to play big minutes and contribute. Though he wasn’t among the best players in the tournament, Veleno had an impact throughout and it was likely a much-needed reprieve from an up-and-down rookie campaign in the AHL.
“We all love him. He does all the little things and he’s just a good guy. He’s a guy that people gravitate towards,” said Team Canada forward Akil Thomas.
I’ve long been a big proponent of Veleno’s game and upside, ranking him in my top 15 throughout the 2018 draft year. He’s a north-south skater who can make plays off the rush, create partial breaks for himself, lose a defender with a stop-up and contribute on the power play as a pass-first option with above-average finishing touch (though I wouldn’t say he’s a natural scorer). He’s also a responsible off-puck player who wins battles, tracks the play well, swings low defensively and rarely cheats, even if his ugly plus-minus might have you think otherwise. He projects fairly safely as a third-line centre but I think there’s enough playmaking skill to potentially become a 2C. He’s going to start putting up numbers in the AHL sooner rather than later.

3. Michael Rasmussen, C/LW, 20 (Grand Rapids Griffins)
I normally wouldn’t include a player who spent virtually all of last season in the NHL. But Rasmussen also hasn’t played a game in the NHL this season, he’s only 20 and lost time to his back injury which all combine to create the same kind of uncertainty that is typical of a prospect. There aren’t many 6-foot-6 players in the NHL these days, let alone ones that produce offensively, so Rasmussen is trying to become a bit of a unique player in that regard. In his draft year I felt he was picked too high and that it might prove difficult for him to match his defensive prowess, his goal scoring touch and his length with the other necessary puck skills needed to be a playmaker at the NHL level. And while he will always have the tools to be a depth forward, he has to show more aptitude with the puck on his stick which has helped him become more of a threat off the rush. He’s also got great reflexes on tips and redirects if they decide to use him in front off the net on the power play. He’s not going to be a star or drive a line but he increasingly looks like someone who can help the Wings in all situations.

The fact that you bag on velenos production in the ahl when he also played in the world juniors is amusing. I guess every player who plays in the ahl when they are still eligible for junior should be pushing close to ppg.
 

alasania94

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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I mean the Wings are bad, that's not exactly a hot take but you're making it pretty clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. If you want to criticize their lack of elite forwards that's fair, but they're bursting at the seems with players that are clearly top 6 players. In other words, depth is absolutely not their problem. Their D looks like it'll be fine as well. Hronek is a top pairing D already, and Seider looks like he's well on the way. McIsaac, Tuomisto, Johanssen all have realistic top 4 potential. If half of their prospects continue on their current and they can get a couple good FA signings they'll be competitive in 2 years.

Laf - X - Zadina (or X - Byfield/Stuzle - Zadina)
Bert - Larkin - Mantha
Fabbri - Veleno - Rasmussen
Glendening - Helm - Smith

+ Svechnikov, Grewe, Bergerren

Seider - Hronek
McIsaac - DeKeyser
Johanssen - Lindstrom

+ Tuomisto, Cholowski

I think a lot of fans who don't follow the Wings can watch the standings and assume that the situation is a lot worse than it actually is. Anyone who followed closely could see that the reason they performed so poorly (especially compared to last year) is because a number of players had historically awful performances.

Frans Nielson 9 pts in 60 GP
Adam Erne 5 pts in 56 GP
Justin Abdelkader 3 pts in 49 GP
Brendan Perlini 4 pts in 29 GP
Christoffer Ehn 4 pts in 54 GP
Jimmy Howard 2 wins in 27 starts (4.20 GAA)

Good news is none of these players are part of the future, and Blashill is likely gone as well. Despite the standings, it's a refreshing change from the years of Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, and Kronwall because for once the players that are performing well are actually part of the long term future, and the players holding the team back are not. The Wings will be fine, your analysis is awful.

Hmm, very good post, except for the part that I said the red wings would be competitive in 3-4 years. lol

This lineup is competitive under that exact assumption. If you think this lineup would be competitive next year you're out to lunch bud. you have players on that roster, including your entire top line + two top 9 forwards + 3 defense men that have played a combined 30 nhl games right now. Really far fetched of you to assume this is going to be a competitive team in less than anything but 3 years. Which is exactly what I said? So please tell me what exactly was awful about my post???

You're assuming in 2 years time, 3 NHL rookies will be producing like first line forwards? Where are you getting player X? What if you draft 2-3-4? What if half the players in the above-mentioned roster don't pan out? You're riding a whole lot of assumptions lol
 
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alasania94

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Sep 28, 2017
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The fact that you bag on velenos production in the ahl when he also played in the world juniors is amusing. I guess every player who plays in the ahl when they are still eligible for junior should be pushing close to ppg.
He's played 5 entire years in Junior and couldn't even put up half a PPg, let alone an entire PPG in the AHL...I said he projects as a 3C which is what seems to be a consensus amongst most scouts. Where am I wrong bud?
 

alasania94

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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You’d be lucky to get a player of Mantha’s caliber at 8th overall
Wouldn't call it lucky? It's a deep top 10, so there is a reasonable chance that Rossi/Holtz/Perfetti/Raymond + Struble + a high 2nd end up being more valuable.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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I think that is not his point, if I may, I think he wants to show that Mantha does not fit the contending window of DET and that it would be more profitable for DET to trade him for futures ready in 4 years (which I tend to agree with even though I understand some people disagree) because you may get "more" for the time of contention. But I agree the communication strategy is a bit aggressive :D

I think the perception of all fan bases about DET is that you have Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi with trade value but nothing else and hence they try to make proposals for these players, which from their perspective make sense. :)

All fanbases are kinda special that way.

If you are a team and are waiting for your perfect "competitive window", you'll get about three years every 20 that you're any good. By the time Detroit will be "ready to win" based on what everyone tells us, Larkin will be making in the double digits, Lafreniere/Byfield/Stutzle will probably be making around that. Seider and Hronek probably at 8 a piece.

There is not a set "contending window". If you do your job correctly as a GM, you should be replacing your good players as they age out and have enough crossover to continue. See Detroit from 1990-2015.

Why do I care about the perception of all of these other fanbases if they want to trade for our best players and give us scraps in return? Fanbases want to frame the "competitive window" bullshit so they can get players at a discount because "they'll not be around when you're good anyway".

Guys don't die at 29 or 30.
 
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alasania94

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Sep 28, 2017
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All fanbases are kinda special that way.

If you are a team and are waiting for your perfect "competitive window", you'll get about three years every 20 that you're any good. By the time Detroit will be "ready to win" based on what everyone tells us, Larkin will be making in the double digits, Lafreniere/Byfield/Stutzle will probably be making around that. Seider and Hronek probably at 8 a piece.

There is not a set "contending window". If you do your job correctly as a GM, you should be replacing your good players as they age out and have enough crossover to continue. See Detroit from 1990-2015.

Why do I care about the perception of all of these other fanbases if they want to trade for our best players and give us scraps in return? Fanbases want to frame the "competitive window" bullshit so they can get players at a discount because "they'll not be around when you're good anyway".

Guys don't die at 29 or 30.
Who is giving you scraps in return?

1 #8 overall in a top 10 heavy draft

2. a 2nd round pick that progressed immensely and put up a 0.5 ppg as an 18 year old august birthday in his first NCAA season (and who also happened to put up the best combine results of any athlete in the 2019 draft)

3. ANOTHER high second in this years draft.

What are these scraps you speak of?
 

lucaseider

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Apr 15, 2006
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592
mactown
He's played 5 entire years in Junior and couldn't even put up half a PPg, let alone an entire PPG in the AHL...I said he projects as a 3C which is what seems to be a consensus amongst most scouts. Where am I wrong bud?

Where do you get your info? He played 4 years in the ohl including a season where he turned 16 in January. I would say a person who turned 20 just a few months ago and had 23 points in 54 games in his first pro season might have a better ceiling than third line center, especially since by all accounts he is good defensively as well.
 

WingsMJN2965

Registered User
Oct 13, 2017
18,106
17,699
Half a PPG after 5 years in the ohl is UNDERWHELMING lol. That is not good production at all.

Also, beating up on 16 year olds? Rasmussen's best season in juniors, was his third where he put up a whopping 1.25 PPG LMAO the only time he beat up on anyone (as an oversized 6'6 third year WHL player) was in the playoffs, where he has a single amazing run. That is absolutely AWFUL production for a 6'6 third year player.

Here are similar producing players in their age range in the AHL:

Veleno:

Tobias Bjornfort, a D prospect younger than him putting up better PPG
Oliver Wahlstrom (who's been considered on a terrible trend since being drafted) put up a better PPG than Veleno at the same age
Rasmus Sandin, another D prospect in his first year putting better PPG than Veleno
Kotkaniemi, same age as Veleno, putting up twice the production in the AHL

Don't even get me started on Rasmussen who for your information played in the NHL FIRST then was sent down to the AHL where he produced underwhelimg number as a genetic freak. Please stop over valuing your propects sir.

Here are exerpts on both players from the Athletic: CHECK OUT THE BOLD :)

2. Joe Veleno, C, 20 (Grand Rapids Griffins)
Veleno’s world juniors performance was weird to watch because he didn’t play the same style or role that he did in junior. Though Veleno isn’t shy, he was much more of a sparkplug than I expected him to be — and I’m not just talking about the headbutt; he wasn’t leaving anything out there and finished all of his checks. He was also regularly among Canada’s leaders in ice time, called upon to play big minutes and contribute. Though he wasn’t among the best players in the tournament, Veleno had an impact throughout and it was likely a much-needed reprieve from an up-and-down rookie campaign in the AHL.
“We all love him. He does all the little things and he’s just a good guy. He’s a guy that people gravitate towards,” said Team Canada forward Akil Thomas.
I’ve long been a big proponent of Veleno’s game and upside, ranking him in my top 15 throughout the 2018 draft year. He’s a north-south skater who can make plays off the rush, create partial breaks for himself, lose a defender with a stop-up and contribute on the power play as a pass-first option with above-average finishing touch (though I wouldn’t say he’s a natural scorer). He’s also a responsible off-puck player who wins battles, tracks the play well, swings low defensively and rarely cheats, even if his ugly plus-minus might have you think otherwise. He projects fairly safely as a third-line centre but I think there’s enough playmaking skill to potentially become a 2C. He’s going to start putting up numbers in the AHL sooner rather than later.

3. Michael Rasmussen, C/LW, 20 (Grand Rapids Griffins)
I normally wouldn’t include a player who spent virtually all of last season in the NHL. But Rasmussen also hasn’t played a game in the NHL this season, he’s only 20 and lost time to his back injury which all combine to create the same kind of uncertainty that is typical of a prospect. There aren’t many 6-foot-6 players in the NHL these days, let alone ones that produce offensively, so Rasmussen is trying to become a bit of a unique player in that regard. In his draft year I felt he was picked too high and that it might prove difficult for him to match his defensive prowess, his goal scoring touch and his length with the other necessary puck skills needed to be a playmaker at the NHL level. And while he will always have the tools to be a depth forward, he has to show more aptitude with the puck on his stick which has helped him become more of a threat off the rush. He’s also got great reflexes on tips and redirects if they decide to use him in front off the net on the power play. He’s not going to be a star or drive a line but he increasingly looks like someone who can help the Wings in all situations.

Did you just try to prove your point that top 9 forward is the best case scenario for Veleno by bolding a journalist’s writing that he’s got 2C potential?

I didn’t even need to read the full post. You defeated yourself.
 
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