Confirmed with Link: MTL-ARI: Max Domi for Alex Galchenyuk

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Watched a video on Bergevin explaining the trade last night... A question was ask. What do you say to Habs fans who don't like this deal and think we should of gotten more for Galchenyuk? His answer was Domi played out west and Habs fans have not watched him and don't know much about him. What a bunch of BS. We know exactly who Domi is and he has game but we gave up the player with more upside. It's obvious. I welcome Domi to our team but I would of preferred a different player going the other way or the Coyotes to add at least a future 2nd round pick to address the higher upside in Galchenyuk.

Good god you've finally caught on.

It's always BS with Bergy.

He uses arrogance like this to compensate for his utter lack of critical thinking.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Good god you've finally caught on.

It's always BS with Bergy.

He uses arrogance like this to compensate for his utter lack of critical thinking.

I'm not the hate type and I'm not the type to exaggerate every move as a negative. I think this is where I was labeled a Bergevin lover in the past. There were countless times I highlighted his negative moves but all people seen was the post wars against the exaggeration. I was on record saying over and over again... Started off by saying he has not done a bad job but his job is not done yet. Then I changed it a year later to evaluating him on his ability to adapt and learn from his previous mistakes. Now today, I think he has not learned and is stubborn. He does not know how to manage elite level talent and the trends are piling up.

I call it like I see it. He disrespected Habs fans by saying "Domi played out west and Habs fans don't know much about him". Public speaking is not his strength and he knows he is not popular with our fan base so everything he says now is under the microphone. If he truly believes we don't know what kind of player Domi is, he is delusional.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I think that a lot of people were in denial of Bergevin's incompetence.

Bergevin is a moron, a narcissist, arrogant, has poor people skills, and a bigot. That's what it is, but people won't be prone to accept it. It goes against the fantasy that people have of the corporate world as objective, where the cream always rises to the top. To accept what Bergevin is, is for many people, to reject their core ideology.

Soneoone recently posted insider speculation that Galchenyuk has been on the trading block for two years. Supposedly, Bergevin did not trade him because he was afraid if looking bad if Galchenyuk succeeded elsewhere. That is an absurd story ... But it is believeable due to what a lunatic Bergevin is.

That myth is rampant because it's propagated by media and culture. Maths and finance are seen as the epitome of intelligence. But it's not. Trying to understand human behaviour through genetics, epigenetics and neurobiology is far more complex and requires something math-heads often don't have; an understanding of the subtleties of context and the sheer complexity of all the variables involved.

When it comes to complex systems, there's no greater complexity than human behavior and biological development. That's why Robert Sapolsky's bio course ar Stanford has two mandatory readings; his own Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and James Gleick's Chaos.

 

[groovejuice]

That's not even a consideration. Hoffman was in a very particular situation.

Ottawa's toxic dumps are not setting the standard for what players on other teams are traded for.

Amazing the lengths Bergevin proponents will go to defend him. Then again, not so amazing.

It's like flat earthers. Despite a preponderance of evidence that they themselves have seen, it's rejected out of hand because sometimes it's about what one wants to believe rather than what is.

 

[417]

You can't have a buy low move when the Habs are giving up the more talented and player. The two are tied together.

Debatable...

 

[tazsub3]

Or just keep AG and not trade for Domi!? HELLOO? McFly? Any non braindead GM could get a 1st for Galchenyuk. If Ryan Reeves can get a 1st rounder then...

but which first a first between 20-30, i think domi is much better value

 

[FlatIron]

Everyone should ask themselves the simple question in regards to the Domi/Chucky trade. Who is the better player?

 

[Runner77]

Debatable...

I'm not sure that's the word I'd use. But then again, there is never any consensus on this forum, so that's part of the charm.

 

[Price is Wright]

Habs being the 90s Expos but making bad moves not for financial reasons but bad psychology may be the most perfect analogy I have heard yet.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It's like flat earthers. Despite a preponderance of evidence that they themselves have seen, it's rejected out of hand because sometimes it's about what one wants to believe rather than what is.

Flerthers are just trolls.

There's like a really small minority of them who actually believe that ****

 

[Lshap]

Save the political oratory (even the interesting, well-reasoned kind) for the appropriate forum.

 

[habaholic]

Great, another local reporter who is too much of a coward to take a stance. Brilliant exercise in fence-sitting.

Don't worry Leclerc, you won't lose your sandwich privileges at the BC with the piece of trash you just wrote.

Do you have to complain about everything? I thought it was a good article that put things into perspective. Not everything in life is black or white, actually most of the times there's a grey zone.

 

[groovejuice]

Debatable...

Scoring is a rarer commodity than attitude, and for a team that finished 29th in goals scored, should have a much higher relative value.

Considering the Habs have a glut of the first and a dearth of the second, scoring seems to be an obvious priority. It's also a fact that scoring is the more valuable quality to success at the NHL level.

 

[scrubadam]

I think he might grasp the severity of the situation Hoffman and the Sens were in had Hoffman been a Hab and it were the Montreal media which had got hold of the story. This is akin to Pacioretty's wife cyber-bullying Price's wife and getting caught. The freakin' world would be coming to an end and Bergevin would be lucky to get a mid-round draft pick in return for Pacioretty.

The situation created the urgency to trade Hoffman, but it didn't effect the player himself. Its not like he was in Rehab or made racist remarks himself. The player is fine, its his wife that is bat shit insane.

And still FLA was willing to trade for him(just not at Dorion's original price) and so was SJS.

FLA probably wanted a 1st or a good prospect, which Tallon rejected. Dorion took a cap dump, and then SJ flipped him for a 2nd.

TBH I don't see how much more value AG would of had on the market especially with Tony tweeting no team was willing to give up a 1st for AG.

And lets not pretend that AG doesn't have his own skeletons. An overbearing dad and rehab stint could of effected his value, or maybe it didn't. Whats worse a crazy GF or a crazy Dad? But IMO I don't think it did, I just think the market was not really that great and I would take Domi over the packages for Hoffman.

Now in the end I would of kept AG, or really preferred a 1st (which seems to be off the table) or a LD/C. But option 1 was just keep the kid. Let the pens get Domi for Rust or Sheary.

 

[417]

Scoring is a rarer commodity than attitude, and for a team that finished 29th in goals scored, should have a much higher relative value.

Considering the Habs have a glut of the first and a dearth of the second, scoring seems to be an obvious priority. It's also a fact that scoring is the more valuable quality.

While this is true...it doens't really have anything to do with what I wrote.

skill level and it's application onto on-ice results...isn't all that different between Domi & Galchenyuk.

It's not like we're comparing Datsyuk to Dwight King here.

Domi's got a fair bit of skill, he just uses it more for playmaking while Galchenyuk's best skill is about finishing.

 

[scrubadam]

but which first a first between 20-30, i think domi is much better value

If habs could of gotten a 1st this draft, and maybe another 1st for Max or Byron or Petry, 3 1st this draft would of been huge for the rebuild.

So even if the habs drafted 3rd, 15th, 26th it would still be very good, and I would of preferred that to Domi.

But Tony reported no one wanted to give a 1st, and a guy who is just as productive as AG got a 2nd and a cap dump so I think even getting the 25th/26th pick was off the table.

 

[MaxDummy]

he was able to be moved twice within an hour.

SJ used him To dump Boedker contract.. Thats it

 

[groovejuice]

While this is true...it doens't really have anything to do with what I wrote.

skill level and it's application onto on-ice results...isn't all that different between Domi & Galchenyuk.

It's not like we're comparing Datsyuk to Dwight King here.

Domi's got a fair bit of skill, he just uses it more for playmaking while Galchenyuk's best skill is about finishing.

I'm aware and agree. Putting the puck in the net is a more difficult skill in my book and certainly one that the team has a serious shortage of.

Gallagher has almost certainly hit his peak and there's a very good chance that Pacioretty will be playing elsewhere. Where will the goals come from?

Bergevin hasn't done well in major trades so I'd be shocked if Pacioretty yielded equivalent production.

 

[cphabs]

Habs being the 90s Expos but making bad moves not for financial reasons but bad psychology may be the most perfect analogy I have heard yet.

Playing favorites ruins a team dynamic in any arena. Especially when protracted. Good/Bad Right/Wrong? That is what we are most known for these days. Not the most "storied" franchise in the NHL...

 

[durojean]

When it comes to defensive play, Galchenyuk is a nightmare. Your ES goal stats do nothing to disprove that. Did you watch any Habs games?

Let's talk about that at the end of this year. I'll be happy to eat some crow if it turns out his defensive flaws are way over exagerated.

Don't get me wrong, he'll never be a defensive master. But I think that he is not the worst defensive player in the NHL and one way or another. This year will answer a lot of question about the real potential of Alex Galchenyuk.

 

[DAChampion]

Unlike Radulov, Galchenyuk won't be playing in the strongest division in hockey. He has a non-negligible chance to see playoff hockey next year.

 

[DAChampion]

That myth is rampant because it's propagated by media and culture. Maths and finance are seen as the epitome of intelligence. But it's not. Trying to understand human behaviour through genetics, epigenetics and neurobiology is far more complex and requires something math-heads often don't have; an understanding of the subtleties of context and the sheer complexity of all the variables involved.

When it comes to complex systems, there's no greater complexity than human behavior and biological development. That's why Robert Sapolsky's bio course ar Stanford has two mandatory readings; his own Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and James Gleick's Chaos.

I'm a maths guy, and, and, and, ...

1) Bergevin is definitely not a maths guy
2) There's plenty of math in genetics research !
3) I agree it's not the highest form of intelligence, it's merely one of the highest forms. If you're brilliant, you're brilliant, be it at mathematics, at music, et cetera.

 

[Lshap]

I'm a maths guy, and, and, and, ...

1) Bergevin is definitely not a maths guy
2) There's plenty of math in genetics research !
3) I agree it's not the highest form of intelligence, it's merely one of the highest forms. If you're brilliant, you're brilliant, be it at mathematics, at music, et cetera.

Math and music are connected by a common intellectual skill, although the two disciplines express themselves very differently, obviously.

 

[Wats]

Hopefully Domi can become as good as Hoffman.

 

[OnTheRun]

Ray Ferraro on the trade starting around 24:10:

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/overdrive-june-18-2018-hour-3-1.1116487

"Montreal did him zero favors"

Its echoed pretty much by everyone.
They never liked the player to begin with and the org as a whole was not interested in working with him.
The reality is if Bergevin had got the job earlier than a few weeks before the draft, say January, the Habs don't draft Galchenyuk in 2012.