OT: Montreal getting a new /old ball park for $750 Million maybe 1 Billion

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The city could have built 10 stadiums with the money they've spent on building, repairing and maintaining that white elephant. They've been pouring millions into that place for almost 50 years.

As long as it creates contracts for the right fri.. people

 

[Scintillating10]

Major reason for ruin of Expos

 

[salbutera]

Major reason for ruin of Expos

BS…. lack of true baseball fans was the “major reason”… especially post early 80s mass exodus

There’s a reason in 1990 Expos radio & TV revenue wasn’t even in the same stratosphere as the 2nd lowest in MLB .. and it only got worse

 

[themilosh]

Would it be possible to keep just the tower and build something else on the rest of the lot?
We take it for granted but the tower looks awesome in person. I'm sure they could make something really cool with it

I think it would be really cool if they kept the tower, tore down everything else then built a new stadium with a retractable roof utilizing the old tower as the anchor. Like a permanent crane. Concept would be so unique.
Basucally get rid of the O saucer building.

 

[themilosh]

BS…. lack of true baseball fans was the “major reason”… especially post early 80s mass exodus

There’s a reason in 1990 Expos radio & TV revenue wasn’t even in the same stratosphere as the 2nd lowest in MLB .. and it only got worse

I used to go to about ~20 games a year up until 98.. just a brutal atmosphere. Cold, stale, soundless.
By comparison, Fenway Park, Camden Yards and Wrigley Field are exactly what the Expos needed -- we had a Windsor Station plot of land to build a 34k "Camden" style park for 250m$ in late 90s... when that fell through, i was done.. 94 pushed me off the edge, 97 pedro departure, then downtown ball park nixed..

 

[salbutera]

I used to go to about ~20 games a year up until 98.. just a brutal atmosphere. Cold, stale, soundless.
By comparison, Fenway Park, Camden Yards and Wrigley Field are exactly what the Expos needed -- we had a Windsor Station plot of land to build a 34k "Camden" style park for 250m$ in late 90s... when that fell through, i was done.. 94 pushed me off the edge, 97 pedro departure, then downtown ball park nixed..

That was the crux of the issue, if there was 500-750K group of fans willing to go to 10-15 games per year, the inve$tment $$$ would’ve shown up for the new ballpark … there never was, especially after early 80s exodus. Always plenty of excuses though…

From the onset, Mtl only got an MLB team because Bronfman stepped up at the last minute when all the original group of owners started getting cold feet when it was time to pony up $ in 1967. If it wasn’t for Charlie the Expos would’ve never existed.

 

[themilosh]

That was the crux of the issue, if there was 500-750K group of fans willing to go to 10-15 games per year, the inve$tment $$$ would’ve shown up for the new ballpark … there never was, especially after early 80s exodus. Always plenty of excuses though…

From the onset, Mtl only got an MLB team because Bronfman stepped up at the last minute when all the original group of owners started getting cold feet when it was time to pony up $ in 1967. If it wasn’t for Charlie the Expos would’ve never existed.

Let's also not forget the Gillette bought the Habs AND the Molson Centre thrown in for good measure for what like $200M in 01.. like there wasn't one French dude who could come to the table to buy one of the most iconic brands in all sports? This was just another series of wtf is wrong with the city of MTL.... squabbling, nickel and diming, table scraps... along with a mass exodus of businesses and Anglos to T.O...
politics in QC has been the bain of their existence, and still (to a lesser extent) today. France has similar problems, mass strikes, constant upheaval... perhaps it's culture, who knows... with Hugo on board now I haven't been this content with Habs stability since 94... finally ridding ourselves of fox hole boys club. And still look at all the complaining from the media over Slaf and Reinbacher...

And Gillette, who knew nothing about hockey flipped the habs BACK to the molsons for ~600M in what like 7 years?? Embarrassing. No foresight.

 

[Scintillating10]

BS…. lack of true baseball fans was the “major reason”… especially post early 80s mass exodus

There’s a reason in 1990 Expos radio & TV revenue wasn’t even in the same stratosphere as the 2nd lowest in MLB .. and it only got worse

I know quite a few who have up their season tickets because of stadium location and poor quality of Big O. They were ticket holders back in Jarry Park days and Expos played .400 baseball

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

That was the crux of the issue, if there was 500-750K group of fans willing to go to 10-15 games per year, the inve$tment $$$ would’ve shown up for the new ballpark … there never was, especially after early 80s exodus. Always plenty of excuses though…

From the onset, Mtl only got an MLB team because Bronfman stepped up at the last minute when all the original group of owners started getting cold feet when it was time to pony up $ in 1967. If it wasn’t for Charlie the Expos would’ve never existed.

Good god, you have tunnel vision for just about everything.

A downtown open sky stadium would've racked up way more fans, made more money and ensure more perinnity. You can't just say "not enough fans, blah blah blah" and not consider the horrible location and venue. A downtown location would also have made it more accessible to the anglos.

 

[MasterD]

Good god, you have tunnel vision for just about everything.

A downtown open sky stadium would've racked up way more fans, made more money and ensure more perinnity. You can't just say "not enough fans, blah blah blah" and not consider the horrible location and venue. A downtown location would also have made it more accessible to the anglos.

I'm with you until that BS about the anglos. The OS is easily accessible by metro from downtown, and the metro is available for Franco's, anglos, and everyone else.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Build a new one closer to the city core but leave that to the private sector to chase down a baseball team. City and Province can help out a little bit but most of the cost should be by the owner. Isn't there land set aside for that? I recall reading about that before?

If OS is renovated, do it right. Renovate it in a way where you don't have to put substantial money into it later again. Make it structurally sound once and for all. Explore other ideas of what else the building can be used for.

If the business case study doesn't make sense, tear it down ASAP. Cost will only grow the long it lingers on.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'm with you until that BS about the anglos. The OS is easily accessible by metro from downtown, and the metro is available for Franco's, anglos, and everyone else.

Did you ever take bus+metro from the west to go to the stadium? Takes up to 30-45 minutes if not more. A downtown stadium would've given more equity and incentive to the anglo pop.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

If bleacher tickets are 10$ sure , I don't see how you're supposed to bring your kids and family to the ballpark many times a year if its gonna cost you north of 300$ to watch a baseball game lol, Are hot dogs gonna be 1$ or 9$ .

Cost of living is absurd and you know its gonna carry over to ticket prices and concessions I just don't see how they would make any money in Montreal , People won't flock to the stadium unless the prices are dirt cheap hell even when tickets were dirt cheap the big O was always empty and spare me the its too far like we have one of the best metro systems in the world you're telling me if the arena was downtown the entire population of the west island would commit to going to games? Yeah ok

 

[the]

I've heard that we can't tear it down since the Big O is located right on top of the metro and that would make the demolition risky.

Essentially due to the complexity of the operation the city just keeps pouring money in the Olympic Stadium.

Don't know if it's true or not but that would explain why we haven't gotten rid of it.

 

[LaP]

Good god, you have tunnel vision for just about everything.

A downtown open sky stadium would've racked up way more fans, made more money and ensure more perinnity. You can't just say "not enough fans, blah blah blah" and not consider the horrible location and venue. A downtown location would also have made it more accessible to the anglos.

He's also ignoring the fact that it was hard time economically for Quebec and Canada in general. Even the Montreal Canadian had a hard time back then letting UFAs go for 500 000$ and then the team was sold for pocket money to an American. Obviously if things were hard for the CH they were too for the Expos. For sure the Olympic Stadium did not help i'm not sure how anyone who watched the Expos there could even argue otherwise. It was among the worst stadiums/arenas in north amercian pro sports.

 

[LaP]

I've heard that we can't tear it down since the Big O is located right on top of the metro and that would make the demolition risky.

Essentially due to the complexity of the operation the city just keeps pouring money in the Olympic Stadium.

Don't know if it's true or not but that would explain why we haven't gotten rid of it.

It's true that it would be hard and costly to tear down the stadium. But that's not an excuse for wasting money in temporary roofs and half assed repairs. How much money was invested so far in patching the stadium. It must be over 500 millions total counting project management, feasibility study, analysis and all. I mean we are getting close to the total price of a brand new stadium. For the money invested the patching quality has been subpar to say the least.

It always make me laugh how people complained about the new arena in Quebec while we probably invested more money into patching the Olympic Stadium with temporary patches of questionable quality.

 

[donghabs98]

Rather than spending a few hundred million every few years or so, why not push the private sector and put some money into a new stadium. It makes no sense to continue to invest money in a stadium that even if you fix it, cant handle a permanent tenant.

 

[donghabs98]

You see stadiums in the states can torn down for lesser reasons than the legitimate reasons there are for tearing down the O and building a new stadium.

If demolition isnt an option due to the Metro, then its time to rethink how the Big O can be used. It makes little sense continuing to invest in a sports sradium that will never be able to house a permanent tenant.

 

[donghabs98]

Good god, you have tunnel vision for just about everything.

A downtown open sky stadium would've racked up way more fans, made more money and ensure more perinnity. You can't just say "not enough fans, blah blah blah" and not consider the horrible location and venue. A downtown location would also have made it more accessible to the anglos.

Yeah, saying Montrealers dont care about baseball and then pointing to attendence of the Expos towards the end is a weak argument because it ignores the context behind what happened. Expos basically had no owner after Bronfman, even when the Expos had a potential contender, its ownership consortium was so cheap, they wouldnt spend any money to keep a potential world series winning core around for even 1 more year.

When you have an ownership group who wont invest in the team, a stadium far away and crumbling and a losing team where even if you develop stars, they wont be retained, who would show up to a game?

To get high traffic, you need convenience (downtown location where you can easily get walk ins or people looking for an evening activity), a good atmosphere and committed ownership. Expos didnt have that and the Oakland Athletics currently don't either. Als fans are still there (evidenced by the attendance in their protest game), but they lack reasons to go.

 

[rik schau]

That era in and around Montreal ( Mirabel airport ) really was not kind to the people of Quebec and they are still paying the price for all these debacles. So much money wasted by the Governments,very poor analyzes and foresight.

 

[salbutera]

Yeah, saying Montrealers dont care about baseball and then pointing to attendence of the Expos towards the end is a weak argument because it ignores the context behind what happened. Expos basically had no owner after Bronfman, even when the Expos had a potential contender, its ownership consortium was so cheap, they wouldnt spend any money to keep a potential world series winning core around for even 1 more year.

When you have an ownership group who wont invest in the team, a stadium far away and crumbling and a losing team where even if you develop stars, they wont be retained, who would show up to a game?

To get high traffic, you need convenience (downtown location where you can easily get walk ins or people looking for an evening activity), a good atmosphere and committed ownership. Expos didnt have that and the Oakland Athletics currently don't either. Als fans are still there (evidenced by the attendance in their protest game), but they lack reasons to go.

So what was the excuse for the putrid attendance even when Bronfman owned the team post early 80s mass exodus. There were some very competitive teams in 84, 87, 89, 90 - yet attendance was lowest tier in the league.

Fact is there simply weren’t enough real baseball fans in the city. I grew up in NDG, we had a 10-team little league, Hampstead & Côté St.Luc next door had an 8-team league, Coté des Neiges down the road had a 24-team league playing at the 4-diamonds @ Van Horne park.

Plethora of little league teams within a 5-km radius at baseballs peak of early 80s - all dwindled by late 80s. Now there are no baseball diamonds left…

Bronfman only sold the team because he saw what everyone did…. empty seats and US cable deals on the horizon about to spike team payrolls he had no chance to compete with

 

[MasterD]

Did you ever take bus+metro from the west to go to the stadium? Takes up to 30-45 minutes if not more. A downtown stadium would've given more equity and incentive to the anglo pop.

Lol. People drive 3-4 hours to see games. Heck, I'm going to a Red Sox games in Boston in a month.

People drive 75+ minutes from the suburbs to go work in Montreal.

This is BS, if people wanted to go see baseball, they would. 45 mins is nothing.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Agree the stadium is terrible and a factor for low attendance. I will say though that when it was full, it was a lot of fun. Best time I ever had at a game was the expos Phillies end of season series in 93 with expos 4 back going to series. I was there Friday night with 45,000 glorious fans. When the wild thing came on in extra innings, you couldn’t hear yourself think it was so loud. Everyone smashing their seats. Just willing the team forward. Williams was an absolute god send.
Had they swept the series they would have been 1 gb down the stretch. As it was they won Friday, got edged out on Saturday, and won another thriller on Sunday with Larry’s baltimore chop and Williams blowing another one.

 

[Scintillating10]

Agree the stadium is terrible and a factor for low attendance. I will say though that when it was full, it was a lot of fun. Best time I ever had at a game was the expos Phillies end of season series in 93 with expos 4 back going to series. I was there Friday night with 45,000 glorious fans. When the wild thing came on in extra innings, you couldn’t hear yourself think it was so loud. Everyone smashing their seats. Just willing the team forward. Williams was an absolute god send.
Had they swept the series they would have been 1 gb down the stretch. As it was they won Friday, got edged out on Saturday, and won another thriller on Sunday with Larry’s baltimore chop and Williams blowing another one.

Good memories.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I'm with you until that BS about the anglos. The OS is easily accessible by metro from downtown, and the metro is available for Franco's, anglos, and everyone else.

The OS is also in what's pretty much a residential area and not a particularly nice one either. There's not much to do around it.