Player Discussion Milan Lucic V.2.0

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Can Milan Lucic be sent to Robidas Island already? This is quite possibly the worst contract we've given out since the Shawn Horcoff deal.

You're not wrong but I think there are some locker room issues.

Ya but don't you know, the only locker room problem was Taylor Hall! Milan Lucic and his character are gonna lead to so many more wins.

How? We paid a kings ransom to improve the locker room at the expense of much needed skill. If the locker room is an issue, than Chiarelli is much worse than thought because his MO was mainly to improve that area. What the hell are we paying 10 mil per year to Lucic and Russell to do then?

Chiarelli was absolutely atrocious at handling the locker room back in Boston, always taking the side of the gritty veterans with no talent over his actually talented players. Tyler Seguin was purged due to not "fitting the team culture", words straight out of Chia's mouth. Instead of putting Dougie Hamilton into an environment where he could feel comfortable, he was allegedly an outcast in the locker room, and when Sweeney took over, Hamilton refused to re-sign. But hey Dennis Seidenberg got 4 million! Don't you want Dennis Seidenberg on your team instead?

Maybe Khaira and Nurse can teach Lucic a thing or two about sticking up for teammates.

Yup, it's absolutely ridiculous that a pair of 23 year olds are doing the thing that Lucic was primarily brought in to do. The bum just stood there on the ice and did nothing as Benning was headshotted. Benning had to fight later himself. Like if you're not even going to be intimidating anymore, then what actual use do you have for this team? You certainly can't score goals.

 

[Little Fury]

Not really. Pretty much the same "talentless" roster was one of the best teams in the league last season.

This again?

It seems like we keep going round and round on this but there's more issues than just the makeup of the roster. Upgrades are needed but on paper, this roster (even with the flaws) should be nowhere near this poor.

They shouldn't be this bad is not the same as they should be good. No team with four top six players (and i'm stretching that to include JP) is scaring anybody, even if one of them is McDavid.

I doubt it's "locker room" issues because name me one losing team that has locker room harmony but something is off with the player, player/coach, GM/coach chemistry etc. for whatever reason. It's pretty much the same people in place so it's hard to explain.

GM downgraded talent, coach doesn't have a clue, players are injured, in decline or just can't execute.

 

[Little Fury]

I have defended Lucic this year and in the past, but since Christmas hes been a plug, and thats going easy on him.

Lucic of 2011 can work for this team. Lucic this year is a disgrace.

Fixed.

 

[GMofOilers]

Fixed.

Nah, last year he was fine.

 

[Little Fury]

Nah, last year he was fine.

Nah he sucked last year but at least he had good PP numbers.

The Lucic that everyone wanted from ages ago is gone. He's never coming back.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Nah he sucked last year but at least he had good PP numbers.

The Lucic that everyone wanted from ages ago is gone. He's never coming back.

50 point big winger who is always in the top few in the league for hits and break someones face when he wants to is a good player to have.

That was him last year.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

50 point big winger who is always in the top few in the league for hits and break someones face when he wants to is a good player to have.

That was him last year.

See the problem is he's a player whose never been particularly good at skating, going into his 30s, in a league that has moved towards skating ability being king in the NHL. The on ice play was always going to get worse eventually and it happened earlier than expected. The problem I have with him is that one of the biggest reasons used to justify his contract was that he'd serve as deterrence and an intimidation factor for opposing teams, but nope. Doesn't fight when teammates get cheapshotted and spends the whole game being completely incapable of catching a pass.

 

[Little Fury]

50 point big winger who is always in the top few in the league for hits and break someones face when he wants to is a good player to have.

That was him last year.

Disagree. You could see this coming last year. All the issues were there in terms of puck handling, skating, playmaking. Now his hands and physical game have vanished too.

 

[CycloneSweep]

See the problem is he's a player whose never been particularly good at skating, going into his 30s, in a league that has moved towards skating ability being king in the NHL. The on ice play was always going to get worse eventually and it happened earlier than expected. The problem I have with him is that one of the biggest reasons used to justify his contract was that he'd serve as deterrence and an intimidation factor for opposing teams, but nope. Doesn't fight when teammates get cheapshotted and spends the whole game being completely incapable of catching a pass.

Yep his game has been neutered this year. I am wondering how much that has to do with coaching. Lucic ALWAYS stood up for people. This year he doesn't. I wonder with how much Todd is throwing him out in every offensively amazing opportunity possible if Todd also told him to NOT do anything that could make him take a penalty cause he needs him on the ice.

 

[CupofOil]

I honestly wonder if that early season "throw my team under the bus" by McLellan is what spiraled it out of control.

Team was coming in great after a great season. Dismantled Calgary game one, then had a couple rough ones and instead of having his teams back and talking about how the team can do better and what they can do (things he is doing now) he throws them under the bus.

I think @Bryanbryoil knows the wording much better than I do about what was said.

Yeah, I mentioned this in one of the other threads that he doesn't only call out players but he calls out the best players while giving far worse players the benefit of the doubt simply because they are veterans.

I know some other coaches like Tortorella do this but at least the players Torts call out deserve to be called out. Mclellan seems to favor vets no matter how poorly they are performing which is bound to cause some dissention amongst the players. Of course when a team is losing a lot, this is bound to happen but Mclellan just fanned the flames and it has all spiraled downhill since. Obviously personnel issues played a part in the regression this season but there's definitely more at play here.

 

[oXo Cube]

Matt Kassian was talking last night on Team1260 after the game and he said he believes that there has got to be some real locker room issues going on between the players and thats why the team isn't playing unified right now and not sticking up for each other. This got me thinking whether maybe it is Lucic that is the center of the problem. Just with his salary alone and the way he continues to be gifted ice time despite his horrible play.. maybe other players on the team are having issues with it. If there is indeed any sort of locker room problems.. I can't really see which other players it might involve other than Lucic.

I'm so freaking tired of this "winning culture" meme.

Everyone realizes that this argument is the primary driving force behind all of Chiarelli's worst moves, right?

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Yep his game has been neutered this year. I am wondering how much that has to do with coaching. Lucic ALWAYS stood up for people. This year he doesn't. I wonder with how much Todd is throwing him out in every offensively amazing opportunity possible if Todd also told him to NOT do anything that could make him take a penalty cause he needs him on the ice.

I wouldn't doubt it. Todd can go into the dumpster can along with Peter Chiarelli and Bob Nicholson. It could also be apathy. At the start of the year when Lucic was producing at a respectable rate, he was throwing big hits, getting into scrums, and engaging physically when needed. However, Lucic knows this is his retirement contract, and when the on ice play started going into the toilet, his physicality started to go with it. This guy should be the primary target of an amnesty buyout if we get another lockout.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not really. Pretty much the same "talentless" roster was one of the best teams in the league last season.

It seems like we keep going round and round on this but there's more issues than just the makeup of the roster. Upgrades are needed but on paper, this roster (even with the flaws) should be nowhere near this poor.

I doubt it's "locker room" issues because name me one losing team that has locker room harmony but something is off with the player, player/coach, GM/coach chemistry etc. for whatever reason. It's pretty much the same people in place so it's hard to explain.

Presuming that you watched a game in which the team didn't score a single goal, against Calgary, couldn't sustain offense or puck control, against Calgary, and that miffed chance after chance and that only one line because Drai was being saddled with two subpar wingers.

You watched that game and still don't question the talent of this club outside of a few forwards? The difference in this game time and again was Calgary being a deeper team and toying with the Oilers lines. After McD we had hardly anything going. Calgary was forcing us into turnovers at will and were much better at keeping the puck. There were entire shifts where Flames had out top lines hemmed in ownzone the whole shift.

Your opinion also needs to be revisited in the Absence of Maroon now being gone. Even he is not that talented, but was the best winger on this club. Essentially we don't have a winger now. Pulju will be one eventually.

 

[StevenF1919]

I'm so freaking tired of this "winning culture" meme.

Everyone realizes that this argument is the primary driving force behind all of Chiarelli's worst moves, right?

B-but the team is obviously only bad because Hendricks is gone!!

 

[CupofOil]

This again?

Yes, this again. You can't just ignore last seasons' success as if it never happened.

They shouldn't be this bad is not the same as they should be good. No team with four top six players (and i'm stretching that to include JP) is scaring anybody, even if one of them is McDavid.
GM downgraded talent, coach doesn't have a clue, players are injured, in decline or just can't execute.

Did the Lucic-RNH-Eberle line scare anybody last season? It's virtually the same roster. Downgrading from Eberle to Puljujarvi, switching out DD for Strome and Pouliot for Khaira isn't the difference between a 103 point team and this abortion of a season.

I agree that the talent was slightly downgraded, the injuries played a factor and a lack of execution but that's not the same as you saying that it's "simply" because the roster isn't good. No, it's not that simple.



[/QUOTE]

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Yeah, I mentioned this in one of the other threads that he doesn't only call out players but he calls out the best players while giving far worse players the benefit of the doubt simply because they are veterans.

I know some other coaches like Tortorella do this but at least the players Torts call out deserve to be called out. Mclellan seems to favor vets no matter how poorly they are performing which is bound to cause some dissention amongst the players. Of course when a team is losing a lot, this is bound to happen but Mclellan just fanned the flames and it has all spiraled downhill since. Obviously personnel issues played a part in the regression this season but there's definitely more at play here.

Part of this is probably due to Chia's influence too. Chiarelli was notorious for favouring the gritty veterans over the talented young players in Boston. That's why studs like Wheeler and Seguin were scapegoats, while inferior players like Kelly and Ference were praised to the moon. Kind of like how players like Hall and Eberle were the target of Chiarelli's stupid little culture purge in favour of trash like Milan Lucic and Eric Gryba.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Yeah, I mentioned this in one of the other threads that he doesn't only call out players but he calls out the best players while giving far worse players the benefit of the doubt simply because they are veterans.

I know some other coaches like Tortorella do this but at least the players Torts call out deserve to be called out. Mclellan seems to favor vets no matter how poorly they are performing which is bound to cause some dissention amongst the players. Of course when a team is losing a lot, this is bound to happen but Mclellan just fanned the flames and it has all spiraled downhill since. Obviously personnel issues played a part in the regression this season but there's definitely more at play here.

Yep. It's sometimes really hard to do your job well when you hate the crap out of your boss.

Could be why the team seems so disjointed. Some guys are still willing to listen to Todd so they play a certain way, but then you have others who want him gone and dont.

I honestly think Milan bounces back a bit next season, especially with Todd gone.

The handling of Lucic by Todd is helping literally no one. It's been obvious Lucics entire career that when he is shitting the bed what do you do? You piss him off by giving him less ice time and making him do something to earn it. A mad Lucic is a scary good Lucic. Todd giving him gravy minutes no matter how bad he is does nothing to help that.

Lucic is at his best when he wants to contribute so he makes a major hit and gets his adreneline going. Putting him out in all the offensive minutes and go "WE NEED YOU TO SCORE LOTS OF GOALS PLEASE DO THAT" just neuters him into a puppy. We want a freaking Pitbull. Get him mad, get him engaged.

 

[CupofOil]

Presuming that you watched a game in which the team didn't score a single goal, against Calgary, couldn't sustain offense or puck control, against Calgary, and that miffed chance after chance and that only one line because Drai was being saddled with two subpar wingers.

You watched that game and still don't question the talent of this club outside of a few forwards? The difference in this game time and again was Calgary being a deeper team and toying with the Oilers lines. After McD we had hardly anything going. Calgary was forcing us into turnovers at will and were much better at keeping the puck. There were entire shifts where Flames had out top lines hemmed in ownzone the whole shift.

Your opinion also needs to be revisited in the Absence of Maroon now being gone. Even he is not that talented, but was the best winger on this club. Essentially we don't have a winger now. Pulju will be one eventually.

The team stunk with Maroon this season, season was already toast when he was dealt.

As I mentioned to Little Fury, it was essentially Eberle switched out for Puljujarvi, DD for Strome and Pouliot for Khaira. Otherwise, it's virtually the same roster outside of Sekera which yes, was pretty significant since the GM failed to replace him adequately.

My point is that there are more issues than just "the roster isn't any good". As I said before, it's a roster with flaws that needs upgrades in some key spots but this was also a roster last season that had a lot of flaws and they wildly succeeded.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I wouldn't doubt it. Todd can go into the dumpster can along with Peter Chiarelli and Bob Nicholson. It could also be apathy. At the start of the year when Lucic was producing at a respectable rate, he was throwing big hits, getting into scrums, and engaging physically when needed. However, Lucic knows this is his retirement contract, and when the on ice play started going into the toilet, his physicality started to go with it. This guy should be the primary target of an amnesty buyout if we get another lockout.

I don't think thats it. Imo Lucic was producing because he was physically engaged. His game hit a slump which normally he gets 3rd lined for a bit where he doesn't have to worry about his offense and just to be defensively sound and lay some big hits. Once he gets his physical game going his offense always comes with it.

Giving him that gravy McD time doesn't allow him to do that.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Benoit Pouliot and Tyler Pitlick have more goals than this bum. The former being our best penalty killing winger by a light year last season and the ladder being a very effective PKer when he was healthy. Even if Pouliot was still earning 4 million here, the two of them combined would have lower salary and lower cap hit than Lucic. Neither of them are on good teams either. Yet somehow they're individually outproducing him.

I don't think thats it. Imo Lucic was producing because he was physically engaged. His game hit a slump which normally he gets 3rd lined for a bit where he doesn't have to worry about his offense and just to be defensively sound and lay some big hits. Once he gets his physical game going his offense always comes with it.

Giving him that gravy McD time doesn't allow him to do that.

Possibly. It might be a chicken and egg sort of situation where the physical play and the "actual hockey" feed into each other, and right now we're stuck in a vicious negative feedback loop.

 

[CupofOil]

Benoit Pouliot and Tyler Pitlick have more goals than this bum. The former being our best penalty killing winger by a light year last season and the ladder being a very effective PKer when he was healthy. Even if Pouliot was still earning 4 million here, the two of them combined would have lower salary and lower cap hit than Lucic. Neither of them are on good teams either. Yet somehow they're individually outproducing him.



Possibly. It might be a chicken and egg sort of situation where the physical play and the "actual hockey" feed into each other, and right now we're stuck in a vicious negative feedback loop.

Even our own 3rd liners (Strome and Khaira are outproducing him) and this is without playing the entire season with McDavid or Draisaitl and top PP unit. Considering the opportunities he's gotten, he might be the worst player in the league this season.

 

[Spawn]

Yep. It's sometimes really hard to do your job well when you hate the crap out of your boss.

Could be why the team seems so disjointed. Some guys are still willing to listen to Todd so they play a certain way, but then you have others who want him gone and dont.

I honestly think Milan bounces back a bit next season, especially with Todd gone.

The handling of Lucic by Todd is helping literally no one. It's been obvious Lucics entire career that when he is ****ting the bed what do you do? You piss him off by giving him less ice time and making him do something to earn it. A mad Lucic is a scary good Lucic. Todd giving him gravy minutes no matter how bad he is does nothing to help that.

Lucic is at his best when he wants to contribute so he makes a major hit and gets his adreneline going. Putting him out in all the offensive minutes and go "WE NEED YOU TO SCORE LOTS OF GOALS PLEASE DO THAT" just neuters him into a puppy. We want a freaking Pitbull. Get him mad, get him engaged.

Lucic has spent practically his entire career playing on top lines being asked to produce offence. In Boston he spent years with Krejci on their top line and with LA he spent the majority of his time with kopitar.

Lucic “at his best” has come strictly as a top 6 winger being asked to go out there and score. The coach can’t make him go out there and be a pit bull, he needs to do that himself.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Even our own 3rd liners (Strome and Khaira are outproducing him) and this is without playing the entire season with McDavid or Draisaitl and top PP unit. Considering the opportunities he's gotten, he might be the worst player in the league this season.

And the thing is Strome and Khaira aren't exactly having world beater seasons. Lucic is just a terrible hockey player. But lets not go that far and call him the worst player this season. Eric Gryba played 21 games after all.

 

[Little Fury]

Yes, this again. You can't just ignore last seasons' success as if it never happened.

Not ignoring it, but how many times does it need to be said that it was an obvious outlier?

Did the Lucic-RNH-Eberle line scare anybody last season? It's virtually the same roster. Downgrading from Eberle to Puljujarvi, switching out DD for Strome and Pouliot for Khaira isn't the difference between a 103 point team and this abortion of a season.

It makes more sense if you believe, as I do, that last season was a mirage.

I agree that the talent was slightly downgraded, the injuries played a factor and a lack of execution but that's not the same as you saying that it's "simply" because the roster isn't good. No, it's not that simple.

Every team has injuries to deal with. The Jets have been banged up all year but they have depth to make up for it. Execution is harder to pin down but talent plays a role there too, as does coaching and pure luck. But those things are a lot easier to fix than having a bad roster with like eight fourth liners up front.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Benoit Pouliot and Tyler Pitlick have more goals than this bum. The former being our best penalty killing winger by a light year last season and the ladder being a very effective PKer when he was healthy. Even if Pouliot was still earning 4 million here, the two of them combined would have lower salary and lower cap hit than Lucic. Neither of them are on good teams either. Yet somehow they're individually outproducing him.



Possibly. It might be a chicken and egg sort of situation where the physical play and the "actual hockey" feed into each other, and right now we're stuck in a vicious negative feedback loop.

That exactly it.

Look at old clips of Lucic and listen to commentators talking about "not waking the bear". Teams could try and neuter Lucic by ignoring him and not getting him physically engaged. It worked sometimes but other times Lucic would just go out and get himself engaged.

Playing with McDavid doesn't work for him because of the speed game. He is constantly thinking about not laying a big hit because he has to be in a good position to be able to be in the zone in time when McDavid rushes up the ice. Slower centers than McDavid, Lucic can deal with more because he can still lay hits and be part of the play. With McDavid, he can't.

So his game struggles as players normally do. Lucic in past years would see some third line time to get his game back in shape. In a spot where, he doesn't have to worry about needing to score, or being there for the elite centers to bounce pucks off of. He can just simplify his game, get physically engaged and get back to his freight train self. He hasn't been allowed to do that this year.

Sometimes dropping a player down into the bottom 6 is literally the best thing for their game and in turn best for the team for a while. I would of loved if they did a Lucic - Khaira - Pakarainen line.

Khaira is physical every shift. Lucic could vibe off of that and get himself engaged again.

I know its fun to hate Lucic here but I have watched this guy for years and his handling has been awful.