Mike Hoffman

[Super Cake]

I did not realize that Hoffman was 25 already.

 

[Boud]

His average icetime is 17 minutes or so

He's still got a long, long way to go to be considered established a far as top scorer goes

His average ice time is 14 minutes and he doesn't play the PP. He's currently top 10 in Goals/60. Zucker and Beleskey are the only two guys who play as little with 16G or more. I can't imagine how many goals he would have if he played on the PP, I'm sure he'd have more than 20..

 

[Inf4mous0ne]

I did not realize that Hoffman was 25 already.

Haha, yupp. Which is why people need to give guys like Zibby/Lazar/Cowen/etc a break, sometimes it takes time!

 

[Xspyrit]

That has been at least the second time you have posted that link with that data. And I already told you last time that his numbers were due to small sample size and luck. His GA numbers have been rising steadily as the year goes on as he regresses to the norm. He's responsible defensively but let's not call him a "shutdown" center. He's not that. If you want to call him a shutdown center, then he's been very underwhelming most of the year.

ok half a season is still small sample size. Let's revisit this at he end of the year then, I'm pretty sure it will look about the same. Oh but wait, it will still be small sample size? I know sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, depends on the agenda.

He has been a 2-way center pretty much all his career and has been scoring at a 50 pts pace in over 1000 games. How many can claim that? Now he's being ask to do the same but he plays with linemates like Condra, Smith, Neil and Lazar. So it's going to be hard putting 50 pts.

Which is what I said. He's a 4th line center, maybe a 3rd at most at this stage of his career. You don't need explain it to me. But a lot of posters here were penciling in 50 pts and playing as a second line center. I've been saying to taper your expectations, which sounded ridiculous to some posters. But hey, that's HFBoards. A lot of different opinions.

Saying he's a 4th line center like this without context is ridiculous and I'm not going to waste time over this. Think what you want, it doesn't matter much. Facts will do the rest.

People were pencilling him as a 2nd line center because they didn't expect Zibanejad to get this much opportunity. As simple as that. I also think Legwand Legwand would put a lot more points playing with Hoffman and Ryan.

Not really. I look at even strength numbers to see the pecking order of players. Some have expertise in different areas (i.e. PK) which will inflate their numbers, for example if the team is taking a lot of penalties.

So, if you look at it:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20152OTTCACALL&sort=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

He's a 4th line center. His 6 minutes of ice time last game, kind of gives it away...

Why don't you say "4th line center at even strength" then? It creates confusion... And yeah, his ice-time has been diminished under Cameron because IMO he knows Legwand is a stop-gap and Cameron is here to develop the young players because it's them that could make him win tomorrow.

Legwand IMO has been signed as a cheap insurance policy, an utility player with tons of experience to protect younger players

Sure it's a fact, but you can use certain data to prove a false point. You have to look behind the numbers. I suggest you do that.

Do you suggest I am not a poster who doesn't look behind numbers, who doesn't think a little bit farther? I wonder what veteran posters would think about that...

Point still stands, Michalek has 7 more pts than Hoffman, in 0:20 more PP TOI/G

It's a cold straight fact, nothing can convince me out of that, it's like 2+2

Not this stupid Oilers argument again. Seems to be the go to argument for the crowd defending Phillips, Neil and all.

The thing is, I don't want the team full of rookies. That doesn't work. But we are nothing like that Oilers, and will never be due to the roster as it currently is. The Oilers have too many one dimensional players. Whether they be rookies or veterans. And did you know that they are not as young as you make it sound to be? They have a strong veteran presence and always had. So please stop with the Oilers thing. But I digress.

I don't have an age bias. I have a skill bias. If a player is not good enough to play on a team, I don't care if he's young or old. He shouldn't be playing. If Wier is playing better than Phillips. He should play. If Lazar is playing better than Neil. He should play.

We have enough veteran presence on the team by now, that we don't need to keep the older statesman in prominent roles. Neil should be a 13th forward and Phillips should be a 7th D.

Sens are the least experienced team in the NHL but ok "We have enough veteran presence on the team by now"

The Oilers example is used by many simply to explain that if you throw young players to the wolves like the Oilers did, it can really blow up in your face. Obviously, the Sens are taking a more cautious approach via a progressive rebuild (step by step, not letting everyone go at the same time). I see it, but I understand if some refuse to see it.

Finally, no player is perfect. You could say Wiercioch plays better than Phillips, and it could be true in some regards, but in some other aspects, that could be also false, and if you put the guy in the same role as the other, then he would fail. Exemple, who can do what Neil does? Realistic answer : very few. But yet on this board, many talk like it was easy to replace Neil.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

ok half a season is still small sample size. Let's revisit this at he end of the year then, I'm pretty sure it will look about the same. Oh but wait, it will still be small sample size? I know sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, depends on the agenda.

He has been a 2-way center pretty much all his career and has been scoring at a 50 pts pace in over 1000 games. How many can claim that? Now he's being ask to do the same but he plays with linemates like Condra, Smith, Neil and Lazar. So it's going to be hard putting 50 pts.



Saying he's a 4th line center like this without context is ridiculous and I'm not going to waste time over this. Think what you want, it doesn't matter much. Facts will do the rest.

People were pencilling him as a 2nd line center because they didn't expect Zibanejad to get this much opportunity. As simple as that. I also think Legwand Legwand would put a lot more points playing with Hoffman and Ryan.



Why don't you say "4th line center at even strength" then? It creates confusion... And yeah, his ice-time has been diminished under Cameron because IMO he knows Legwand is a stop-gap and Cameron is here to develop the young players because it's them that could make him win tomorrow.

Legwand IMO has been signed as a cheap insurance policy, an utility player with tons of experience to protect younger players



Do you suggest I am not a poster who doesn't look behind numbers, who doesn't think a little bit farther? I wonder what veteran posters would think about that...

Point still stands, Michalek has 7 more pts than Hoffman, in 0:20 more PP TOI/G

It's a cold straight fact, nothing can convince me out of that, it's like 2+2




Sens are the least experienced team in the NHL but ok "We have enough veteran presence on the team by now"

The Oilers example is used by many simply to explain that if you throw young players to the wolves like the Oilers did, it can really blow up in your face. Obviously, the Sens are taking a more cautious approach via a progressive rebuild (step by step, not letting everyone go at the same time). I see it, but I understand if some refuse to see it.

Finally, no player is perfect. You could say Wiercioch plays better than Phillips, and it could be true in some regards, but in some other aspects, that could be also false, and if you put the guy in the same role as the other, then he would fail. Exemple, who can do what Neil does? Realistic answer : very few. But yet on this board, many talk like it was easy to replace Neil.

How many years in the NHL does a player need to be considered a vet in your eyes? Just curious

 

[Burrowsaurus]

How many years in the NHL does a player need to be considered a vet in your eyes? Just curious

Some people think the only vets we have are Phillips Neil and Michalek. And if any of them leave we automatically, no questions asked , just become Edmonton and mirror the oilers in every single which way possible.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Some people think the only vets we have are Phillips Neil and Michalek. And if any of them leave we automatically, no questions asked , just become Edmonton and mirror the oilers in every single which way possible.

No, you just simplified and hyperbolized a position to make it seem ridiculous. The irony being that all it did was make you look ridiculous.

Bam!

 

[Burrowsaurus]

No, you just simplified and hyperbolized a position to make it seem ridiculous. The irony being that all it did was make you look ridiculous.

Bam!

Meh. Sue me.

I did simplify it. But anyone (most) that has suggested traded anyone of of those 3 has been accused of wanting to be Edmonton. Which is in itself a ridiculous thing to say.
Add Phillips Neil and Michalek to the oilers and they're stil a dreadful team. ( I don't mean just literally add those three players)

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

No hoffman for accuracy competition :'(

 

[Rumcajs]

Look at Sharps progression. Now look at Hoffman. Very similar.

 

[BigBush*]

No hoffman for accuracy competition :'(

Good, good. Keep it a secret, don't let the other teams know

 

[Sun God Nika]

Tonights the night Hoffman gets noticed.

 

[SevenOfSpades]

Look at Sharps progression. Now look at Hoffman. Very similar.

Can't you say the same thing comparing Hoffman and Glencross? This seems like a pretty unrealistic expectation.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Look at Sharps progression. Now look at Hoffman. Very similar.

Can we have a stats comparison.

 

[Sun God Nika]

man if it wasn't for that stumble Hoffman would have won the whole competition

 

[BonkTastic]

Can we have a stats comparison.

"Sharp" has 5 letters. "Hoffman" has 7.

Hoffman is therefore 40% better than Sharp.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

"Sharp" has 5 letters. "Hoffman" has 7.

Hoffman is therefore 40% better than Sharp.

Bonk... I dont know if i can take you seriously anymore. You keep trying to bring up these opscure stats that prove nothing. First Ryan is the 7th best forward born in march and now hoffman being 40 percent better then sharp because more letters? Shame on you. Give your head a shake.

 

[Boud]

"Sharp" has 5 letters. "Hoffman" has 7.

Hoffman is therefore 40% better than Sharp.

Wait till Yost gets his hands on this.

 

[jbeck5]

Bonk... I dont know if i can take you seriously anymore. You keep trying to bring up these opscure stats that prove nothing. First Ryan is the 7th best forward born in march and now hoffman being 40 percent better then sharp because more letters? Shame on you. Give your head a shake.

I know eh! This place is getting unbearable. Everyone knows you're supposed to count the first name letters as well!

 

[Tuna99]

Wait till Yost gets his hands on this.

What a night by Hoffman, to even have him out there skating versus Drouin is a testament to a super high skill package that you only see players able to perform at in the NHL very rarely, he's a rare talent, and so fun to watch

 

[BigBush*]

Some people think the only vets we have are Phillips Neil and Michalek. And if any of them leave we automatically, no questions asked , just become Edmonton and mirror the oilers in every single which way possible.

It's not replacing vets that would make you mirror the Oilers.
If the plan was to replace Phillips, Niel, and Michalek with Claesson, Puempel, and Prince, that would be an Oiler type strategy.
Ottawas done it right, they've slowly let young guys into the line up and allowed them to show that they are ready to take on bigger roles and replace some vets (Hoffman, Stone, Pageau, Boro)

 

[StefanW]

"Sharp" has 5 letters. "Hoffman" has 7.

Hoffman is therefore 40% better than Sharp.

That's a pretty sharp observation.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Hoffman could have shattered NHL record for fastest skater if he didn't slip up. He almost did with the slip up. His dangles were very fast and his shootout moves extremely impressive and we didn't even see his shot on display.

Hoffman has all the makings of breaking out and becoming a star forward. He has muchhhh better shot, dangles and speed than Glencross. Sharp is very similar to him so I can see that. Hoffman though, imo generates more individual offense better but will he do so consistently is the biggest question?

We aren't talking out of context here too... Hoffman was best player in CHL, AHL and now he's leading scorer among rookies in NHL, not hard to think he can keep progressing.

 

[StefanW]

Hoffman could have shattered NHL record for fastest skater if he didn't slip up. He almost did with the slip up. His dangles were very fast and his shootout moves extremely impressive and we didn't even see his shot on display.

Hoffman has all the makings of breaking out and becoming a star forward. He has muchhhh better shot, dangles and speed than Glencross. Sharp is very similar to him so I can see that. Hoffman though, imo generates more individual offense better but will he do so consistently is the biggest question?

We aren't talking out of context here too... Hoffman was best player in CHL, AHL and now he's leading scorer among rookies in NHL, not hard to think he can keep progressing.

I think the issue when talking about his ceiling is his age. He is a late bloomer, and as such he did not get a full time job with the Sens until the age of 25. Kudos to the Sens for sticking with him, by the way, because a lot of prospects are cut loose before that time if they do not make the big league.

At the age of 25, going on 26 next season, how much more progression are we going to see? I am perfectly happy with where he is right now, and I don't expect much more out of him over the next few years. And that is great, because he is a 25-ish goal scorer with blistering speed who is not afraid to shoot the puck. Good teams need that type of player.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I think the issue when talking about his ceiling is his age. He is a late bloomer, and as such he did not get a full time job with the Sens until the age of 25. Kudos to the Sens for sticking with him, by the way, because a lot of prospects are cut loose before that time if they do not make the big league.

At the age of 25, going on 26 next season, how much more progression are we going to see? I am perfectly happy with where he is right now, and I don't expect much more out of him over the next few years. And that is great, because he is a 25-ish goal scorer with blistering speed who is not afraid to shoot the puck. Good teams need that type of player.

Well again, Hoffman's whole life he's always been late bloomer so I don't see how the NHL will pose a problem for that to continue. He has shown success here so far too which is very very impressive already and a good indication that NHL hasn't stopped him from becoming a star bloomer.

Alfredsson's best seasons came when he was late 30's.

Sedin's broke out during there mid 20's(26ish?).

I think what's very telling of Hoffman's success is that he is doing so on a team that isn't stacked at all, not that deep and he generates most of his offensive individually and normally is the best player on his line.

What I'm trying to say is he doesn't look like he's playing like a rookie so that label and his age aren't really factors at all at this stage, so long as he is continuing to improve drastically which he has.