News Article: Melnyk: 'not selling the team — period'

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I'm terrified to think of what Melnyk would do if he had the power and resources Trump has.

I think people would it like if Melnyk were more like Trump. Dorion and Boucher would have been fired already, and their successors would have been fired already too!

 

[coladin]

Well, when something you are passionate about is being run like a dog turd, you should probably start to question it rather than staring down from the giant tower you're building

Hey, but it's just a business , why be passionate?

 

[Micklebot]

Hey, but it's just a business , why be passionate?

So your position is that NHL franchises should be allowed to exploit fans passion to maximize revenue? I'm not following why you feel that NHL teams shouldn't be held to the same standards as other business in terms of responsibilities for attracting customers.

 

[Daffy]

I think people would it like if Melnyk were more like Trump. Dorion and Boucher would have been fired already, and their successors would have been fired already too!

And we probably would have won a Cup by now.

 

[BondraTime]

Hey, but it's just a business , why be passionate?

I'm not following your logic here

 

[Micklebot]

I think people would it like if Melnyk were more like Trump. Dorion and Boucher would have been fired already, and their successors would have been fired already too!

Would we hire a Power Play denier to run the Power Play?

 

[ZekeA]

Just be thankful in Canada that Melnyk only owns the Sens. In the States the Orange Oaf is president~~!!!!!! Voldemort lives he has come back as the Orange Oaf......

 

[pzeeman]

So your position is that NHL franchises should be allowed to exploit fans passion to maximize revenue? I'm not following why you feel that NHL teams shouldn't be held to the same standards as other business in terms of responsibilities for attracting customers.

If people show up win or lose, there's no incentive to win. Look at the Leafs since expansion, or the Cubs in the 80's and 90's. If you're going to fill your arena and make enough money no matter what crap you put out there, why would you put effort into building a winner?

As fans, we should expect a better product, or you're not getting our money, or at least not as much. The other attitude leads to mediocrity at best. They finally figured out in Toronto and Chicago that you invest in winning to make more money. EM needs to see that investing in winning will pay off, and the opposite that if you aren't committed to winning, you're getting nearly as much money.

 

[coladin]

So your position is that NHL franchises should be allowed to exploit fans passion to maximize revenue? I'm not following why you feel that NHL teams shouldn't be held to the same standards as other business in terms of responsibilities for attracting customers.

Where is the exploitation exactly? And how is this just a Senators situation? It is professional sports, every franchise in every sport banks on the passion of fans. Except here of course. That is nothing new. Pro sports cannot be compared to other businesses is my point. Talking about hockey like comparing detergents or price of paint between Rona and Home Depot is stupid, in my opinion. It is not a product in that sense or any sense. It is sport. Canadians consider their sport part of the DNA. I don't think they feel that way about a couch set at Mobilia.

They have players that they pay millions hoping to win, but nothing is guaranteed. If fans do not like said product and stay and home and wait for the product they like, well, that is not how it should work. This is not Ice Capades, the Globetrotters or Monster Trucks. According to the team, they have net the responsibilities of providing a "product" to attract customers. It just did not work out. Doesn't mean you do not support the team if you are a fan of the Senators.

 

[coladin]

Hey, but it's just a business , why be passionate?

Makes more sense if you read saskriders post.

 

[coladin]

If people show up win or lose, there's no incentive to win. Look at the Leafs since expansion, or the Cubs in the 80's and 90's. If you're going to fill your arena and make enough money no matter what crap you put out there, why would you put effort into building a winner?

As fans, we should expect a better product, or you're not getting our money, or at least not as much. The other attitude leads to mediocrity at best. They finally figured out in Toronto and Chicago that you invest in winning to make more money. EM needs to see that investing in winning will pay off, and the opposite that if you aren't committed to winning, you're getting nearly as much money.

I cannot believe that you think Toronto and Chicago have been trying not to win all these years. Toronto is making anymore money now. Neither are the Cubs. It makes no sense.

 

[pzeeman]

I cannot believe that you think Toronto and Chicago have been trying not to win all these years. Toronto is making anymore money now. Neither are the Cubs. It makes no sense.

During the Ballard years? And to some extent the Teacher's Union years? I'm not convinced that they were willing to step out and innovate or risk to win. But in both those cases, it didn't matter how crappy the team was, they would make money anways. My point in both those examples was that those clubs figured out that by being smart and building to win, they figured out they could make even more money.

How does this work back to EM? He shouldn't expect anything more from his fans than he's willing to put in. If he cuts and cuts and can't put a compelling product together - on the ice or in the arena around the game - then he shouldn't expect the people of Ottawa to just come out anyways.

 

[coladin]

During the Ballard years? And to some extent the Teacher's Union years? I'm not convinced that they were willing to step out and innovate or risk to win. But in both those cases, it didn't matter how crappy the team was, they would make money anways. My point in both those examples was that those clubs figured out that by being smart and building to win, they figured out they could make even more money.

How does this work back to EM? He shouldn't expect anything more from his fans than he's willing to put in. If he cuts and cuts and can't put a compelling product together - on the ice or in the arena around the game - then he shouldn't expect the people of Ottawa to just come out anyways.

The issue with the Cubs and Leafs has more to do with building the wrong teams at the wrong times, but they absolutely are trying to win. It just doesn't work out, and it just isn't that easy to win in professional sports. You can throw in the Red Sox too, you cannot tell me that they weren't trying to win and beat the Yankees?

I also have a hard time believing that these companies just figured out that there is more money in winning. Come on. These are billionaires who didn't arrive there by accident.

 

[Micklebot]

Where is the exploitation exactly? And how is this just a Senators situation? It is professional sports, every franchise in every sport banks on the passion of fans. Except here of course. That is nothing new. Pro sports cannot be compared to other businesses is my point. Talking about hockey like comparing detergents or price of paint between Rona and Home Depot is stupid, in my opinion. It is not a product in that sense or any sense. It is sport. Canadians consider their sport part of the DNA. I don't they feel that way about a couch set at Mobilia.

They have players that they pay millions hoping to win, but nothing is guaranteed. If fans do not like said product and stay and home and wait for the product they like, well, that is not how it should work. This is not Ice Capades, the Globetrotters or Monster Trucks. According to the team, they have net the responsibilities of providing a "product" to attract customers. It just did not work out. Doesn't mean you do not support the team if you are a fan of the Senators.

Other business have passionate fans too; Music for example certainly has it's share of fanatics, but you release a crappy album it doesn't sell. The difference being nobody would blame music fans for not buying crappy music just because their favourite artist released it. They still love the artist, still listen to the other albums, but the might skip the tour for that new album, or not buy the CD. Even industries that invoke passion can and should be held accountable for putting out a quality product.

Moreover, there is a distinction to be made between being a fan of a team, and shelling out cash for the right to watch that team in the arena. Many very passionate fans watch their teams religiously on tv simply because they do not live in the market. This is in itself proof that you can be a fan and not go to games. Seeing the experience live is the product, and that product competes against seeing the team via television. If the live experience isn't enticing enough to draw fans, but the televised product is enough to land the team a pretty cushy 12 year 400mil local broadcast deal, perhaps it's not so much the lack of "passionate fans", but rather a lacking live experience and everything that goes along with experiencing the games live.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I'd be kinda of surprised if our operations are middle of the pack when we've been told that we are running a "bare bones" operation by the owner. Seems like a weird thing to lie about, but you never know. I think once again not too many people complain about player salary budgets, its the other areas of the team where we feel should be operated better.

And it doesn't mean necessarily that you have to overspend on operations, but you usually do have to pay employees market value to at least get good ones to come to your organization. Otherwise we get this:

 

[Micklebot]

I'd be kinda of surprised if our operations are middle of the pack when we've been told that we are running a "bare bones" operation by the owner. Seems like a weird thing to lie about, but you never know. I think once again not too many people complain about player salary budgets, its the other areas of the team where we feel should be operated better.

And it doesn't mean necessarily that you have to overspend on operations, but you usually do have to pay employees market value to at least get good ones to come to your organization. Otherwise we get this:

That logo is so painful to look at I can't bring myself to "like" your post even though I 100% agree

 

[pzeeman]

The issue with the Cubs and Leafs has more to do with building the wrong teams at the wrong times, but they absolutely are trying to win. It just doesn't work out, and it just isn't that easy to win in professional sports. You can throw in the Red Sox too, you cannot tell me that they weren't trying to win and beat the Yankees?

I also have a hard time believing that these companies just figured out that there is more money in winning. Come on. These are billionaires who didn't arrive there by accident.

OK. Conceded. I grew up in Southern Ontario in the 80's, so perhaps I'm overly tainted by Ballard, who didn't invest and still sold out the Gardens. He was happy with that.

My over riding point though is that if you give your money to mediocrity, don't be surprised when all you get back is mediocrity. If you're not investing in winning, don't expect money to just fall into your lap. And fans aren't lesser fans for not supporting that mediocrity. I'd actually argue the opposite.

Now, you could point out that there was a drop off for the Senators this year, despite last season's success. I honestly think there are a number of external factors at play here. But right now, I think attendance is reflecting what we're getting on the ice and in the building. I'd even expect this slump to carry into early next season, even if the team gets off to a hot start. But if there's ongoing success, people will show up. Bandwagon *and* hardcore. Winning is never boring.

 

[jbeck5]

There are better PR firms there. And a way bigger, national media presence that Ottawa lacks.

Ottawa businesses use Toronto-based law firms, investment banks and consultancies all the time.

He is using a Toronto firm and Toronto media to appease OTTAWA fans.

Do you not get how tone-deaf that is?

Could you imagine back in the day if mike ilitch back in the day would do all his talking and PR out of Denver because they have better PR firms. Detroit fans would be wondering why their owner is doing everything out of colorado.

 

[thinkwild]

I think Melnyk is also interested in building up his image around the league as it has taken a beating everywhere. Having everyone in Canada think he is a kookaloo to borrow Don Cherry's expression isnt good for him or the market.

And i think Ottawa fans should get some props for having one of the best walk-up markets in the league. That's pretty hard to maintain and leaves the team susceptible to mood swings.

The sellouts rely on season ticket sales reaching the 13-14k mark. That will be a long term challenge. The reason billionaires are required as owners is because they need to be able to ride out those long term challenges.

And lets not underplay the fact that attendance at live sporting events and movies is apparently dipping everywhere. Ticket prices they say have risen much faster than wages. This is not a unique Ottawa problem.

 

[coladin]

Other business have passionate fans too; Music for example certainly has it's share of fanatics, but you release a crappy album it doesn't sell. The difference being nobody would blame music fans for not buying crappy music just because their favourite artist released it. They still love the artist, still listen to the other albums, but the might skip the tour for that new album, or not buy the CD. Even industries that invoke passion can and should be held accountable for putting out a quality product.

Moreover, there is a distinction to be made between being a fan of a team, and shelling out cash for the right to watch that team in the arena. Many very passionate fans watch their teams religiously on tv simply because they do not live in the market. This is in itself proof that you can be a fan and not go to games. Seeing the experience live is the product, and that product competes against seeing the team via television. If the live experience isn't enticing enough to draw fans, but the televised product is enough to land the team a pretty cushy 12 year 400mil local broadcast deal, perhaps it's not so much the lack of "passionate fans", but rather a lacking live experience and everything that goes along with experiencing the games live.

When has Paul McCartney, Elton John or the Who release something worthwhile lately? And when they have, has it been any good? Kiss? These groups or artists have no trouble filling arenas. The Grateful Dead have incredible fans. Phish. The list goes on and on so I am not buying your analogy whatsoever.

The new acts are a different story, but put the Sens as another 25 year old band, look at Bon Jovi for instance, and if you are a fan, you usually end up going.

I don't see it as a "right" to watch your team. I think it is a privilege to have an NHL team in Ottawa. I am sure Jets and Minnesota fans feel the same way. We are not entitled to anything and it is too bad that a financial commitment is required to watch the Senators, but that is pro sports. Eagles fans are passionate when they were terrible for years, but the fans love their Eagles and now they are enjoying the highest of highs.

I wish it were easier to be a fan when your team frustrates you, but sadly it isn't. Freaking hurts bad. I get that people are very passionate about this team because you sense it in their posts here.

Of course watching your team on TV if you do not live in Ottawa is a sensible notion. I am just not a big believer in the "gameday experience" as being the catalyst to getting people to go watch the games. What if Ottawa improves the so-called in game experience, but the team is terrible? I don't see people going to Lebreton for a crappy team even if the game experience is much better than CTC.

I would love to be proven wrong though when the time comes.

 

[Ice-Tray]

When has Paul McCartney, Elton John or the Who release something worthwhile lately? And when they have, has it been any good? Kiss? These groups or artists have no trouble filling arenas. The Grateful Dead have incredible fans. Phish. The list goes on and on so I am not buying your analogy whatsoever.

The new acts are a different story, but put the Sens as another 25 year old band, look at Bon Jovi for instance, and if you are a fan, you usually end up going.

I don't see it as a "right" to watch your team. I think it is a privilege to have an NHL team in Ottawa. I am sure Jets and Minnesota fans feel the same way. We are not entitled to anything and it is too bad that a financial commitment is required to watch the Senators, but that is pro sports. Eagles fans are passionate when they were terrible for years, but the fans love their Eagles and now they are enjoying the highest of highs.

I wish it were easier to be a fan when your team frustrates you, but sadly it isn't. Freaking hurts bad. I get that people are very passionate about this team because you sense it in their posts here.

Of course watching your team on TV if you do not live in Ottawa is a sensible notion. I am just not a big believer in the "gameday experience" as being the catalyst to getting people to go watch the games. What if Ottawa improves the so-called in game experience, but the team is terrible? I don't see people going to Lebreton for a crappy team even if the game experience is much better than CTC.

I would love to be proven wrong though when the time comes.

Personally I couldn't care less about 'in game experience' beyond the hockey game going on. I go and get food/beer/bathroom during the intermission, talk with other fans, and get ready for the next period.

I do agree that too much stock is being put into in-game experience keeping fans away, after all, you go for the game, not the music and entertainment between periods.

Location, weather, lack of performance, these things make a ton more sense to me than in-game experience. In all honesty, a downtown arena may solve several, if not all, of the major reasons why people choose not to go.

 

[Micklebot]

Personally I couldn't care less about 'in game experience' beyond the hockey game going on. I go and get food/beer/bathroom during the intermission, talk with other fans, and get ready for the next period.

I do agree that too much stock is being put into in-game experience keeping fans away, after all, you go for the game, not the music and entertainment between periods.

Location, weather, lack of performance, these things make a ton more sense to me than in-game experience. In all honesty, a downtown arena may solve several, if not all, of the major reasons why people choose not to go.

It all adds up but certainly the reasons you mention will be bigger drivers than game day experience. But what I meant about game day experience was less about specific to our arena stuff and more about the live experience in general.

In the end, attendance issues aren't unique to Ottawa. Calgary had a similar situation from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's, the Canucks had down years in Pacific Coluseum in the late 90's, the oilers had attendance woes in the mid 90's in Rexall place, Winnipeg (the original iteration) wasn't selling out either back in the 80's and 90's. Those cities all had/have great fans, they just were'nt always provided a great product, and as a result attendance droped. When your in a market as big as Toronto and Montreal, you can still sell out in spite of a poor product, but pretty much every other Canadian team has to actually put in some effort to sell tickets, and most (if not all) other Canadian markets have stonger corporate support to help hide any issues.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I don't see people going to Lebreton for a crappy team even if the game experience is much better than CTC.

I would love to be proven wrong though when the time comes.

I suspect the biggest, of the many reasons people list as why the don't go to as many games, is the current location of the CTC and all that entails.

Have to drive to games
Parking lots issues
Unable to "walk up" to games (on game day)
Not centrally located for most fans


Having a New Arena situated right beside two LRT stations, at the end of the (Current) O Train line and right beside the Chaudiere Bridge, will go along way to increase the game day "walk up" crowd, encourage more people to attend more games Via OC Transpo as it will be so much more convenient than it is now.

 

[coladin]

I suspect the biggest, of the many reasons people list as why the don't go to as many games, is the current location of the CTC and all that entails.

Have to drive to games
Parking lots issues
Unable to "walk up" to games (on game day)
Not centrally located for most fans


Having a New Arena situated right beside two LRT stations, at the end of the (Current) O Train line and right beside the Chaudiere Bridge, will go along way to increase the game day "walk up" crowd, encourage more people to attend more games Via OC Transpo as it will be so much more convenient than it is now.

Genuinely curious, does anyone have any idea how long it would actually take from Blair station to Pimisi for the game? Pimisi is the stop, right?

 

[coladin]

It all adds up but certainly the reasons you mention will be bigger drivers than game day experience. But what I meant about game day experience was less about specific to our arena stuff and more about the live experience in general.

In the end, attendance issues aren't unique to Ottawa. Calgary had a similar situation from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's, the Canucks had down years in Pacific Coluseum in the late 90's, the oilers had attendance woes in the mid 90's in Rexall place, Winnipeg (the original iteration) wasn't selling out either back in the 80's and 90's. Those cities all had/have great fans, they just were'nt always provided a great product, and as a result attendance droped. When your in a market as big as Toronto and Montreal, you can still sell out in spite of a poor product, but pretty much every other Canadian team has to actually put in some effort to sell tickets, and most (if not all) other Canadian markets have stonger corporate support to help hide any issues.

Maybe it is perception, or my perception, but I find other markets more tolerant of losing than this market. Even when the Sens were competitive, like last year, attendance was not great relative to he points and standings. Here's to hoping that Lebreton changes that!