Rumor: McKenzie says Wings shopping Ouellet

[OldnotDeadWings]

A rebuilding team should be trading old players for draft picks.
Not Ouellet.
Not Sheahan.
Not even Jurco.

This is ****ed.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Redder:
A rebuilding team should be trading old players for draft picks.
Not Ouellet.
Not Sheahan.
Not even Jurco.

This is ****ed.

I’m not sure why you think trading Ouellet would be a bad idea when you make such a convincing case on behalf of his value. Unless, that is, you think not a single GM sees the value in Ouellet that you do. But let’s suppose there are four or five GMs around the league as smart as you. Just for the sake of argument. Considering the sterling nature of Ouellet’s rate stats you’ve so carefully parsed, he might never have more value than he has right now. Not only do his rate stats indicate he is a solid top four performing D-man, but he’s locked up for another year at a bargain basement price and will still be a RFA at the end of his current deal. On top of that, any team looking to break in a couple young defensemen in the next year or two could use his veteran savvy. No reason Vegas shouldn’t give up their late 1st-Round pick, or at the very least a couple of their many future second-rounders, to acquire Ouellet: high-quality depth for the historic playoff run and a helpful future veteran presence for Brannstrom and Hague. It might seem a high price, but considering there might be a handful of other GMs out there as smart as you with a similarly expert opinion of Ouellet, because those rate stats at his contract so obviously indicate massive value, one of them should be expected to pay through the nose to win the bidding war that no doubt will ensue.

And of course, adding to the likelihood of such a trade, is the recent history of how other GMs hood-winked Holland. It’s clear now that other teams missed the boat on Jurco when he became available. He was abused by two idiot head coaches and his production clearly showed that, given the right opportunity, he would flourish. There probably isn’t a day goes by that a GM somewhere doesn’t smack himself in the head for being so stupid to not offer a second-rounder to acquire Jurco, if only to help out his AHL team.

And you have the most recent example of poor asset evaluation with Sheahan. He’s now 10th among forward ES ice-time in Pittsburgh, the third line has turned to crap, he can’t distribute the puck to regular linemates Guentzel and Kessel, who fantasize about a few extra shifts with Crosby and wait with bated breath for a PP to actually have a few scoring chances every game. Fans can’t believe JR only had to give up a third-rounder and a depth forward for this PK wizard. As with Jurco, other GMs are beating themselves senseless over their failure to properly recognize his value.

This is not to mention the league-wide moaning by GMs who realize now they should have outbid the Rangers for Sproul or Smith, or offered something, anything, rather than see cagey Lou snap up Marchenko on waivers for free.

But all of this is assuming there are at least a few GMs as smart as you are. We can only hope.

 

[Mlotek]

Luke Glendening, in less games played, has more goals than both Sheahan and Jurco combined! Lol

Big loss! DERP.

What during this season or in career? Cause unless he scores 11 goals in next 5 games the purple teletubby is ahead of him career wise. Even points wise Sheahan has around 40+ more.

I like Glendening as a bottom 6 guy, but Sheahan is better. And I've never been a fan of the teletubby...

If you watched Jurco in GR you would know he is best playing net front. He's got amazing tip and hands up close. Instead of letting him play to his strengths Detroit kept trying to make him into a grinder.

 

[Dotter]

What during this season or in career? Cause unless he scores 11 goals in next 5 games the purple teletubby is ahead of him career wise. Even points wise Sheahan has around 40+ more.

I like Glendening as a bottom 6 guy, but Sheahan is better. And I've never been a fan of the teletubby...

If you watched Jurco in GR you would know he is best playing net front. He's got amazing tip and hands up close. Instead of letting him play to his strengths Detroit kept trying to make him into a grinder.

One player got better, one player got worse. The worse player was traded to Penguins for what I consider a very nice return considering the player regressed and proved he's not a unique hockey player, but more of a dime-a-dozen that you can find during any given free agency.

And Jurco? Lol. Ken Holland fleeced Chicago and I love it!

 

[Pavels Dog]

I post facts.
You ignore them and say I ignore facts.

Your "facts" are the consequence of a player not performing, you're ignoring the actual reasons a player gets reduced icetime or a different role. Is it a fact that I don't score more NHL goals because I don't get the opportunity to play top 9 minutes on an NHL team? Yeah, but it's also a fact I'm nowhere near good enough to play in the NHL to begin with. Jurco is not in the NHL either. You can believe that's because he was "ruined" by getting some icetime with Glendening, but again; he was vastly outperformed offensively by guys like Glenny, Helm, Cole etc. so why would any coach in their right mind give Jurco a bigger role? Oh right, I forgot, because he's young..

Booth has been one of the better forwards on this team. Funny he is averaging 7 minutes a game. Far less than Helm, Glendening and Abdelkader. I'd take Booth over all 3 of them.

I think if they even gave him 3rd line minutes he coulda gotten a middle round pick in return given how well he's been playing.

Remember when Blashill said he's consider giving Booth more icetime after scoring those 2 goals vs NJ? Well it was a mere 6-7 weeks later he played more icetime than that game. He obviously thought about it for 2 seconds and is like, "Oh hell no!"

Has he? He's been okay, but we're talking limited icetime. Do you think he outperforms anyone in the top 9? I would doubt it.

What you need to realize is that Blashill isn't coaching to get maximum returns on players at the TDL. He has no reason to try and showcase Booth for a trade.

 

[Claypool]

Didn't think there would be this much anger over losing XO.

 

[SirloinUB]

Didn't think there would be this much anger over losing XO.

You must be new here

 

[Redder Winger]

It's not anger.
It's pointing out the obvious.

A bad team with the highest payroll and oldest roster in the NHL shouldn't be moving out young, cheap players.

They should be moving out old, expensive players.

It's common sense.

This board bitches and cries about the direction of the franchise....
Yet when the media reports they want to trade XO or Sheahan or Mrazek .... they're all about it. When someone points out that they should be trading Ericsson, Helm or Howard instead, they vigorously defend Holland.

Apparently unaware of how Holland locked himself into an expensive, old and mediocre roster.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It's not anger.
It's pointing out the obvious.

A bad team with the highest payroll and oldest roster in the NHL shouldn't be moving out young, cheap players.

They should be moving out old, expensive players.

It's common sense.

That's quite an awful black and white statement you are making.

 

[ShelbyZ]

How long should these guys have gotten to figure things out here? What happens if they regress further?

Do they just set 27YO as the cutoff? Did they give up too fast on guys like Emmerton and Mursak too? What about Derek Meech?

 

[Redder Winger]

That's quite an awful black and white statement you are making.

We've got a GM with f***ed priorities.

Trading Xavier Ouellet for a draft pick or whatever is so far down the list of moves this organization should make.

There's literally no other defenseman on this roster who I wouldn't move before XO.
And I don't even think XO is that great.
But he's OK. He should get better. He's dirt cheap. And he's only 24.
He's still an RFA after next year, so he's an easy contract to manage.

 

[Pavels Dog]

How long should these guys have gotten to figure things out here? What happens if they regress further?

Do they just set 27YO as the cutoff? Did they give up too fast on guys like Emmerton and Mursak too? What about Derek Meech?

By my calculations, 28 is when this board flips from ”he’s young, could still improve” to ”he’s old, don’t sign him, he can only decline!”. 30 is basically one foot in the grave around here.

 

[Redder Winger]

How long should these guys have gotten to figure things out here? What happens if they regress further?

Do they just set 27YO as the cutoff? Did they give up too fast on guys like Emmerton and Mursak too? What about Derek Meech?

I would have liked to have seen Emmerton and Mursak get a bit more action beyond their 8 minutes a night, or whatever they got. Sure.

But I understand. Gotta resign Bertuzzi. Got to bring in Modano. Got to resign Samuelsson. Got to bring back Cleary.

 

[Frk It]

It's not anger.
It's pointing out the obvious.

A bad team with the highest payroll and oldest roster in the NHL shouldn't be moving out young, cheap players.

They should be moving out old, expensive players.

It's common sense.

This board *****es and cries about the direction of the franchise....
Yet when the media reports they want to trade XO or Sheahan or Mrazek .... they're all about it. When someone points out that they should be trading Ericsson, Helm or Howard instead, they vigorously defend Holland.

Apparently unaware of how Holland locked himself into an expensive, old and mediocre roster.

Have you ever considered that maybe some of the guys you want traded have negative trade equity and can't be traded?

Helm wasn't taken in the Expansion Draft for free. Howard has been injury prone for years. Ericsson makes 4.25 mil and is signed until 2020.

 

[Redder Winger]

Have you ever considered that maybe some of the guys you want traded have negative trade equity and can't be traded?

Helm wasn't taken in the Expansion Draft for free. Howard has been injury prone for years. Ericsson makes 4.25 mil and is signed until 2020.

So? Let's hear the rumor they're available.
I'd love to hear McKenzie report that Holland has made Ericsson available.

But he didn't. He reported that Ouelett is available.

Because it's easy to move young, cheap players that have upside.

And Holland only picks the low hanging fruit, because it's easy and he;s complacent and lazy.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Didn't think there would be this much anger over losing XO.

I am not sure its anger so much as t is confusing

whats the point of the move

it dosent free up any significant short or long term cap space
the return likely isnt big enough or of enough value to increase our odds of finding impact player(s) thru the draft(you`re not getting a high pick or good prospect for him)
he isnt old
he hasent been any worse then a / of other players on our blueline especially when factoring in age, games played and contract length and cap hit

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Have you ever considered that maybe some of the guys you want traded have negative trade equity and can't be traded?

Helm wasn't taken in the Expansion Draft for free. Howard has been injury prone for years. Ericsson makes 4.25 mil and is signed until 2020.

that says alot Frk It about the team thats been assembled dosent it

 

[Claypool]

I am not sure its anger so much as t is confusing

whats the point of the move

it dosent free up any significant short or long term cap space
the return likely isnt big enough or of enough value to increase our odds of finding impact player(s) thru the draft(you`re not getting a high pick or good prospect for him)
he isnt old
he hasent been any worse then a / of other players on our blueline especially when factoring in age, games played and contract length and cap hit

If you’ve determined XO is no longer part of your plan going forward you do him a favor and trade him so he gets an opportunity with another team. He doesn’t want to spend his career in the press box. If you can get a draft pick for him, that’s great.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I would have liked to have seen Emmerton and Mursak get a bit more action beyond their 8 minutes a night, or whatever they got. Sure.

But I understand. Gotta resign Bertuzzi. Got to bring in Modano. Got to resign Samuelsson. Got to bring back Cleary.

I'm not advocating for the UFA deals/re-treads. But eventually even hoarding the young guys that "could still have better value someday" will clog the pipeline for the next wave of young guys.

Take out some of the bad overpaid vets/UFA signings you don't like and replace them with Sheahan, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Sproul and Marchenko and this team is even worse and still no closer to being competitive than it is now.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

If you’ve determined XO is no longer part of your plan going forward you do him a favor and trade him so he gets an opportunity with another team. He doesn’t want to spend his career in the press box. If you can get a draft pick for him, that’s great.

ok

so we`re ONLY doing it as a favour

what is our plan going forward exactly

 

[Claypool]

ok

so we`re ONLY doing it as a favour

what is our plan going forward exactly

Holland has talked about his plan probably the last three years. Go read up on it.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Holland has talked about his plan probably the last three years. Go read up on it.

sorry is that the rebuild on the fly plan

or the draft and develop and put young players into positions to succeed plan

 

[ShelbyZ]

By my calculations, 28 is when this board flips from ”he’s young, could still improve” to ”he’s old, don’t sign him, he can only decline!”. 30 is basically one foot in the grave around here.

I think contract plays into it as well. Once you sign for over $3M for a term of 3 or more years, that's it! First giveaway or brain fart in their own zone, cold streak, rough stretch of sub .900SV% games - "Overpaid!", "Bad Contract!". First significant injury - "Injury prone".

I've already seen a few posts in other threads warranting a long term extension for Mantha right off the bat. If that happens, I can't wait for the kind of posts we all know are going to start popping up in about 4 years....

 

[Run the Jewels]

I am not sure its anger so much as t is confusing

whats the point of the move

it dosent free up any significant short or long term cap space
the return likely isnt big enough or of enough value to increase our odds of finding impact player(s) thru the draft(you`re not getting a high pick or good prospect for him)
he isnt old
he hasent been any worse then a / of other players on our blueline especially when factoring in age, games played and contract length and cap hit

He's bad and it opens up a spot for a young guy from Grand Rapids. When you waive XO you probably lose him for nothing so you try to trade him for like a 5th or 6th rounder.

By floating this rumor at least Kenny will take less heat when he waives him and loses him for nothing. He can say he tried to trade him but had no takers.

Atta boy tyre kicker Kenny!!

 

[Hammettf2b]

It's not anger.
It's pointing out the obvious.

A bad team with the highest payroll and oldest roster in the NHL shouldn't be moving out young, cheap players.

They should be moving out old, expensive players.

It's common sense.

This board *****es and cries about the direction of the franchise....
Yet when the media reports they want to trade XO or Sheahan or Mrazek .... they're all about it. When someone points out that they should be trading Ericsson, Helm or Howard instead, they vigorously defend Holland.

Apparently unaware of how Holland locked himself into an expensive, old and mediocre roster.

I haven't heard many around here defending Holland about trading E, Helm, or Howard.