Rumor: McKenzie says Wings shopping Ouellet

[Dotter]

Jurco was given **** all. He spent most of his last 3 years here on a line with Glendening and Miller - that's not how you develop a top 6/9 forward.
Sheahan is doing fairly well as 3C for the Penguins and outproducing Nielsen (at 5 on 5).
XO is statistically better at 24 years old than many of the veterans on this team who'll keep their job here when Detroit trades XO for a draft pick that has a 20 to 30 percent of becoming an NHL player,

Luke Glendening, in less games played, has more goals than both Sheahan and Jurco combined! Lol

Big loss! DERP.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I don't care if they trade Ouellet or keep him. He is mediocre and his return will be mediocre.

I'm more concerned with the fact that Holland still seems to be figuring out ways to re-arrange the deck chairs on the SS Winged Wheel. Green, Tatar, Nyquist, Howard/Mrazek, etc. These are the names we should be hearing about in trade rumours. But apparently Holland still thinks 4th line/3rd pairing tweaks are the priority.

I have some hope that he continues to be very conservative, even when all the available evidence suggests a serious shakeup is needed, because he actually will be stepping down as GM after this season. But it's impossible to tell since this has been his MO for a long time.

The bolded is probably the most realistic scenario we see this offseason.

The hockey media is already helping Holland build his offseason sales pitch. McKenzie and co. coming out and saying that "they'll probably be sellers BUT they're in a better position than anticipated", NBC telecasts pointing out the subpar defense, etc. etc. If this team ends up better than last season in even the most minute way(s) possible (more points-wins/GF/improved or unexpected contributions from certain players/etc. etc.), Holland pushes it as needing to make some upgrades to the back end and keep letting the younger guys (already on the team of course) grow. Then he'll go out and sign a cheap goalie, TWO more Daley-like deals on defense, and maybe one veteran forward (probably Vanek) while pushing playoff aspirations.

 

[Redder Winger]

Not saying much with this current D-core. They are below average at best, most wouldnt see top 4 minutes on a playoff team, with the exception of Green, maybe.



um, ya, but he's not. His upside is maxed. He's been given 2+ seasons to prove himself, and he hasn't. Does this mean he can improve, sure, but not likely. He is what he is, bottom pair D-man, on a average team.

As for being physical, are you serious? Not one person on that backend is even close to physical. They have to be one of the softest D-teams in the league.

+2

His upside is not maxed.
Defensemen peak later than forwards.

 

[Redder Winger]

Spent a 2nd rounder on Jurco. Got a 3rd rounder back from him. He's played 36/37 games in the AHL this year at 25 years old.

Why do we have to waste time talking about irrelevant stuff that is in the past?

You don't have to. But you just did.

 

[Redder Winger]

So I see you're following your usual MO of ignoring facts and going with your made up logic of icetime being handed out in a complete vacuum detached from actual performance.

I post facts.
You ignore them and say I ignore facts.

 

[SirloinUB]

The other unknown in all of this would be XO's contract demands. He might be worth keeping around If he were willing to sign a 1 or 2 year contract for 1.25 million.

I'd imagine that's an unlikely situation. Just sending him a qualifying offer would necessitate a raise so we're not really in a position to be paying XO 1.75-2 million.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Stop obsessing over age. You are reaching joke-poster levels of thinking there's only 1 factor that determines value of a player.


No. You trade away players that aren't part of your future (next ~5 years). There's a much, much better chance all those players you mention are actually part of the team once we're competitive again than there is that XO is.

You think XO keeps a job when Cholowski, Hronek, Saarijarvi, Sambrook, Holway, Kotkansalo, Lindstrom, Hicketts etc. come pushing? That's not even including likely possibilities like a top 10 drafted D this year. In comparison, we have a lot less coming up on the forward side in the near future.

sorry but no chance any of these players I listed are BOTH still here AND making meaningful impacts when this team is a consistent Conference finalist/stanley cup threat

you trade them today because
- they are likely to bring back a greater return today in terms of picks and prospects which greatly increases are odds of drafting and developing true impact players
- they free up long term cap space which we would need should we find true impact players
-they free up long term cap space should we find true impact players to use on support players for those true impact players
-they free up short term cap space to use in free agency on one year rentals than can both help that one season(so as to not completely tank) AND can be flipped at the TDL for more picks
-it creates more roster flexability during our rebuild for younger players to get both more games and more quality opportunities to see what we have

trading Ouellet does nothing to help the long term success of this franchise

 

[mouser]

The other unknown in all of this would be XO's contract demands. He might be worth keeping around If he were willing to sign a 1 or 2 year contract for 1.25 million.

I'd imagine that's an unlikely situation. Just sending him a qualifying offer would necessitate a raise so we're not really in a position to be paying XO 1.75-2 million.

FWIW, a Qualifying Offer wouldn't require a raise. Players who make $1m+ have a minimum QO of their most reason season's salary.

 

[SirloinUB]

FWIW, a Qualifying Offer wouldn't require a raise. Players who make $1m+ have a minimum QO of their most reason season's salary.

Thanks for the correction.

Either way I don't see why XO would take a discount on his current salary to stay in Detroit.

 

[ShelbyZ]

FWIW, a Qualifying Offer wouldn't require a raise. Players who make $1m+ have a minimum QO of their most reason season's salary.

Correct. The only raise would be in Ouellets cap hit if he only signs for his minimum QO (1yr at $1.3M), which would jump $50k...

 

[Ezekial]

Spent a 2nd rounder on Jurco. Got a 3rd rounder back from him. He's played 36/37 games in the AHL this year at 25 years old.

Why do we have to waste time talking about irrelevant stuff that is in the past?

Redder has an affinity for players he feels were treated poorly by the organization, AA, Jurco, pulks, Marchenko, and now XO.

Only one is easily conceivable, AA, and I get Jurco a little bit, but still it's a pattern.

 

[Mlotek]

Only way we dont trade Green is if we go on a run and sneak into a playoff spot. Otherwise I think he is as good as gone.

Personally I trade him regardless.

Or if Green does not waive his NTC.

Have to see the return but i won't be too sad to lose him.

It used to be a compliment to say "our #6 defenseman is invisible. I guess he must be doing his job." But when every single defenseman outside Green is invisible at best, it starts to get a little old. Kinda makes me miss Smith- at least you noticed when he was playing.

Yup, would notice all the terrible turnovers when there are easy options out of the zone. Don't miss Smith a single bit.

 

[TheMule93]

if green didn't waive his NMC i'd go from liking him to really f***ing hating the guy (assuming Holland was trying to trade him)

 

[kliq]

His upside is not maxed.
Defensemen peak later than forwards.

Do you see him as a top 4 D?

 

[Dotter]

I post facts.
You ignore them and say I ignore facts.

In fairness, 90% of the time your "facts" are cherry picked for the sole purpose to push your agenda to try to change the landscape of the true reality. The 10% of the time you might actually post good facts, it is overlooked by everyone who knows who you are and what you're all about. Basically most people around here 'block' you out because they can't trust you and already know the crap you're trying to push.

If you were to use your time to research true facts that paint the real true picture instead of trying to push your agenda, you'll gain more respect around here.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

if green didn't waive his NMC i'd go from liking him to really ****ing hating the guy (assuming Holland was trying to trade him)

What if the only team offering to trade for Green was to a place he had no interest in going to? I mean if you were presented with the choice of either staying at your current job or move to a different city while being paid the exact same amount, would you do it?

Green owes Detroit nothing.

 

[kliq]

What if the only team offering to trade for Green was to a place he had no interest in going to? I mean if you were presented with the choice of either staying at your current job or move to a different city while being paid the exact same amount, would you do it?

Green owes Detroit nothing.

Not really a good comparison. We are talking moving to another city for a chance at winning a cup for a few months. These guys only have so many chances to win a cup which is the dream for 99% of these guys. If you get a chance to be moved to a legit contender, you take it. He has all the power of where he wants to go come July 1st, so I see no reason for him not to waive it. It wouldnt be logical.

 

[Mlotek]

So I see you're following your usual MO of ignoring facts and going with your made up logic of icetime being handed out in a complete vacuum detached from actual performance.

Booth has been one of the better forwards on this team. Funny he is averaging 7 minutes a game. Far less than Helm, Glendening and Abdelkader. I'd take Booth over all 3 of them.

I think if they even gave him 3rd line minutes he coulda gotten a middle round pick in return given how well he's been playing.

Remember when Blashill said he's consider giving Booth more icetime after scoring those 2 goals vs NJ? Well it was a mere 6-7 weeks later he played more icetime than that game. He obviously thought about it for 2 seconds and is like, "Oh hell no!"

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

On the trade board.
Apparently said it on TV tonight.

So dumb.

Right now we'd be lucky to get a 2019 7th round pick for Ouellet, The guy just doesn't have any value right now.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Not really surprised probably both Ouellet and Jensen will eventually be out the door, Jensen just has next season and then is a UFA.

 

[Mlotek]

Not really a good comparison. We are talking moving to another city for a chance at winning a cup for a few months. These guys only have so many chances to win a cup which is the dream for 99% of these guys. If you get a chance to be moved to a legit contender, you take it. He has all the power of where he wants to go come July 1st, so I see no reason for him not to waive it. It wouldnt be logical.

Its in his contract (as with most long term deals Holland signed past few years) and is his right.

Sometimes players don't wanna go to a particular city, team, or coach.Or they just don't want to leave. Recall Filppula rejected a trade to Toronto last deadline.

 

[Dotter]

What if the only team offering to trade for Green was to a place he had no interest in going to? I mean if you were presented with the choice of either staying at your current job or move to a different city while being paid the exact same amount, would you do it?

Green owes Detroit nothing.

This is why Ken Holland probably isn't shopping him yet. He's waiting to see who the true contenders are this season. I am sure any hockey player will not refuse to go to a team that has a real shot at winning the cup, especially if you're services will help push said team over the edge. Though I agree, I doubt he wants to go to Islanders or Coyotes or some other crappy club. But if it's for a team that absolutely can win the cup, I am sure he would be ecstatic. I know I would if I were him. Being a big part of a cup winning team will only increase his value come July.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Thanks for the correction.

Either way I don't see why XO would take a discount on his current salary to stay in Detroit.

If the Red Wings eventually want to retain him as an RFA, he won't have to. And if they offer him less than QO to stay, he can reject it. As long as they don't send a QO after that, he'd end up free to sign wherever he wants.

What I don't get with Ouellet is if they knew they were signing a UFA dman and had XO penciled in at #7, how does he all the sudden become worthy of $2.5M over two years while Jensen (who was expected to be in the top 6 and had arguably more impact in 16-17) is only worth $1.8M over the same time? Could've tossed him $900k on a 1 year and said "Steal a regular job in the top 6 and you'll get more next summer"...

 

[RedWingzz]

Kid is 24.
He's cheap.
Virtually every stat he has is solid and among the best on the D.
So of course we trade him.

With Cholo, Hronek and Hicketts on the way, I'd say XO is expendable. They prefer them I guess.

What if the only team offering to trade for Green was to a place he had no interest in going to? I mean if you were presented with the choice of either staying at your current job or move to a different city while being paid the exact same amount, would you do it?

Green owes Detroit nothing.

Yeah but you can't win the Stanley Cup in any of our professions. So yes, if I was an NHL player, and an upcoming UFA and my team was going nowhere, and they lined up a trade that sent me to a team that will be in the playoffs I would absolutely do it. Especially if I had never won a Cup before. Every player says "I grew up dreaming about hoisting the Stanley Cup", so if your team can trade you and give you that chance, assuming you are a pending UFA, you agree.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Yup, would notice all the terrible turnovers when there are easy options out of the zone. Don't miss Smith a single bit.

I don't disagree with you. But yes, as a selfish fan who watches hockey for entertainment, I'll take a bunch of dumbass turnovers in exchange for the chance to watch a defenseman with talent make a highlight play once in a while. Especially considering we're not competing for a Cup right now.

Someone throwing an old fashioned hip check once in a while would also be acceptable.