McKenzie on the Wings at the deadline

[lilidk]

Agreed, especially in Nielsen's case due to our center depth being rather shallow. Abby I am fine with other than his term length. E won't be around much longer at least.

And will going to be complete garbage. Erickson is the best Red wing this season . Nielson and Aby play any situation , unlike Tatar , Z, Nyaquist , Mantha , Frk

 

[Winger98]

Bertuzzi proving to be a wasted pick. Trade him for a 3rd if we can and cut the hack that can't mentally handle the NHL.

Wasn't it Dallas Drake that Bowman called too stupid to play? Drake went on to play 1000 games and had a nice NHL career. Guy's learn the game, guy's mature. Bertuzzi screwed up. He's also shown plenty of qualities that could make him a very nice NHLer.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

And will going to be complete garbage. Erickson is the best Red wing this season . Nielson and Aby play any situation , unlike Tatar , Z, Nyaquist , Mantha , Frk

I know a lot of people will be repulsed by this but I would like the next coach to challenge Mantha with playing on the PK. He has a very disruptive stick and does a good job of getting in lanes. They should tell him they want him to be a star and young stars play in all situations. I would bring it up in the job interview in terms of what is your plan with Mantha to the next coach.

 

[Redder Winger]

Bertuzzi proving to be a wasted pick. Trade him for a 3rd if we can and cut the hack that can't mentally handle the NHL.

Funny, never seen you write off Abdelkader despite his penchant for poorly timed penalties.

 

[Redder Winger]

I know a lot of people will be repulsed by this but I would like the next coach to challenge Mantha with playing on the PK. He has a very disruptive stick and does a good job of getting in lanes. They should tell him they want him to be a star and young stars play in all situations. I would bring it up in the job interview in terms of what is your plan with Mantha to the next coach.

What I don't like is 1) His 1st step quickness and 2) disinterest in Dzone play

 

[lilidk]

What I don't like is 1) His 1st step quickness and 2) disinterest in Dzone play

he has long rich , he can do it . the best players are penalty killers too

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Funny, never seen you write off Abdelkader despite his penchant for poorly timed penalties.

Nice job picking up the sarcasm.

Dotter said that in relation to Bruce snidely remarking about Helm and Abby's role in the loss.

Helm and Abby are good mentors because even if they make mistakes in games, they do all of the right things off the ice. They aren't the most talented players on the roster and have clear limitations. However, they both bust their asses, lead other players to want to bust their asses, and in Abby's case was literally the only remotely physical presence on the ice for the Wings for about three years. Same thing with a guy like Dan Cleary. He's a true lunch pail guy and if I want my talented players to learn from a guy, I want it to be the hardest working mf'er on the team. Especially a guy like Cleary because he was once a hotshot prospect, went into a spin, and rebuild his career as a scrap heap pickup with the Wings.

Hell, one of the guys who helped Brendan Shanahan the most in his career was Doug Sulliman. He helped him in Jersey work on his deadly wrist shot and was a far far better player for it.

Bertuzzi is going to get taken aside by Hank or someone and he won't do another stupid thing like that again. Or he will if the Wings leadership is any good at all.

People on here conflate most talented with best leadership. It's a weird thing because in Detroit, we were lucky enough to have guys for three decades that embodied both things. That's why they're no doubt Hall of Famers and hailed as some of the best to ever play the game. However, you don't have to be a superstar to be a leader. Is it best if your best players are your best leaders? Hell yes it is... but if your most talented players are listless and lazy, you are badly hurting yourself by thrusting unearned leadership positions into their laps.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Know it’s a pipedream, but his recent scoring streak has made me hopeful that we can move Helm if we retain a bit of salary. Was a warrior for us for a decade, but his term is too long and too much, and we need to be flexible.

I think Helm at 2.85 million would interest some teams looking for PK help and depth. Eating a mil isn’t a big deal

 

[Pavels Dog]

Know it’s a pipedream, but his recent scoring streak has made me hopeful that we can move Helm if we retain a bit of salary. Was a warrior for us for a decade, but his term is too long and too much, and we need to be flexible.

I think Helm at 2.85 million would interest some teams looking for PK help and depth. Eating a mil isn’t a big deal

Having him around at 3.85 isn’t a big deal either. Retaining is what you do if you’re desperate to move someone or want to make a rental look more appealing. Helm fits neither category.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I think Holland is restating the "don't call it a rebuild" to temper the fan base in case he gets nothing done, which let's be honest is his M O. He has to trade Green and one of Nyquist or Tatar. I'd prefer to move Nyquist because he's at the top of his value and this is a great draft to get extra picks. However Tatar isn't Swedish so he may be the odd man out. I don't really care, trade one and you put the new GM in a good spot to start the real rebuild.

 

[Redder Winger]

Nice job picking up the sarcasm.

Dotter said that in relation to Bruce snidely remarking about Helm and Abby's role in the loss.

Helm and Abby are good mentors because even if they make mistakes in games, they do all of the right things off the ice. They aren't the most talented players on the roster and have clear limitations.

Come on.
How long do we have to keep hearing this nonsense.

"All the right things off the ice?"

LOL.

However, they both bust their asses, lead other players to want to bust their asses, and in Abby's case was literally the only remotely physical presence on the ice for the Wings for about three years.

These players bust their asses?

Were they busting their ass on the PK last night?

Same thing with a guy like Dan Cleary. He's a true lunch pail guy and if I want my talented players to learn from a guy, I want it to be the hardest working mf'er on the team. Especially a guy like Cleary because he was once a hotshot prospect, went into a spin, and rebuild his career as a scrap heap pickup with the Wings.

Here's something to consider, Sweeney.
People around the Red Wings said Pavel Datsyuk was the hardest worker in the gym.
They were floored by how much work he did on the bikes and in the gym.

My guess is that your talented players learn a lot more when your other-wordly skill guy is the hardest worker in the gym.

That's the leader. That's the guy setting the example.

When your all-star, all-world guy works hard and busts his ass in every facet of the game, then your 4th liner has no excuse.

When your 4th liner works hard - big deal. There are 10 guys willing to step in and take his job if he doesn't.

Bertuzzi is going to get taken aside by Hank or someone and he won't do another stupid thing like that again. Or he will if the Wings leadership is any good at all.

Bertuzzi will do it again. It's part of his DNA.
Z needs to talk to him.
It wouldn't mean MOD (much) coming from Abdelkader.

I'm just surprised by how unphysical Bertuzzi. I expected more oomph, and not just undisciplined crap.

People on here conflate most talented with best leadership. It's a weird thing because in Detroit, we were lucky enough to have guys for three decades that embodied both things. That's why they're no doubt Hall of Famers and hailed as some of the best to ever play the game. However, you don't have to be a superstar to be a leader. Is it best if your best players are your best leaders? Hell yes it is... but if your most talented players are listless and lazy, you are badly hurting yourself by thrusting unearned leadership positions into their laps.

We still have Zetterbeg and Kronwall - good leaders who, from all accounts, are good leaders. But I wonder.

I've read and heard that there is a fractured lockerroom in Detroit.
Zetterberg and Kronwall lead the shrinking Swede and Euro contingent.
Abdelakder and Glennie lead the Americans.
The young Canadian junior alum hang out in their group
On the other hand I've also heard that Larkin, AA, Mantha and Bert are pretty tight.

 

[TheMule93]

Apparently Nashville is interested in Green (per Kypreos)

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...terested-in-rick-nash-and-mike-green.2447045/

 

[Redder Winger]

Apparently Nashville is interested in Green (per Kypreos)

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...terested-in-rick-nash-and-mike-green.2447045/

Wow.
They've got an embarrassment of riches on their blueline. Is someone hurt?

 

[DatsMagic]

Know it’s a pipedream, but his recent scoring streak has made me hopeful that we can move Helm if we retain a bit of salary. Was a warrior for us for a decade, but his term is too long and too much, and we need to be flexible.

I think Helm at 2.85 million would interest some teams looking for PK help and depth. Eating a mil isn’t a big deal

But what happens when you leave your f*** in show in a cop car?

 

[chances14]

you can never have too much defensive depth for the playoffs

 

[kliq]

Nice job picking up the sarcasm.

Dotter said that in relation to Bruce snidely remarking about Helm and Abby's role in the loss.

Helm and Abby are good mentors because even if they make mistakes in games, they do all of the right things off the ice. They aren't the most talented players on the roster and have clear limitations. However, they both bust their asses, lead other players to want to bust their asses, and in Abby's case was literally the only remotely physical presence on the ice for the Wings for about three years. Same thing with a guy like Dan Cleary. He's a true lunch pail guy and if I want my talented players to learn from a guy, I want it to be the hardest working mf'er on the team. Especially a guy like Cleary because he was once a hotshot prospect, went into a spin, and rebuild his career as a scrap heap pickup with the Wings.

Hell, one of the guys who helped Brendan Shanahan the most in his career was Doug Sulliman. He helped him in Jersey work on his deadly wrist shot and was a far far better player for it.

Bertuzzi is going to get taken aside by Hank or someone and he won't do another stupid thing like that again. Or he will if the Wings leadership is any good at all.

People on here conflate most talented with best leadership. It's a weird thing because in Detroit, we were lucky enough to have guys for three decades that embodied both things. That's why they're no doubt Hall of Famers and hailed as some of the best to ever play the game. However, you don't have to be a superstar to be a leader. Is it best if your best players are your best leaders? Hell yes it is... but if your most talented players are listless and lazy, you are badly hurting yourself by thrusting unearned leadership positions into their laps.

People are going to jump down your throat for this one, complimenting guys like Helm and Abby has unfortunately turned into a trigger for many.

I think there is definitely something to be said for this, anyone who says otherwise has either never played at a high level before, or just looks at stats. My issue is that Holland keeps too many guys like this around. We dont need Abby, Helm, Z, Kronwall, E, Nielsen, Glendening, and Daley all around to mentor the youth. If we just kept say Z, Abby, and Glendening around and let Kronwall's contract run out, I think it would accomplish the same thing, and eliminate a lot of cap. Now I realize a lot of these contracts would be hard to move, but just my thoughts on the concept of leadership in the locker room.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

you can never have too much defensive depth for the playoffs

They need more forwards

 

[jkutswings]

They need more forwards

I'd agree that forward is a greater need, but it sounds more and more like they might load up as much as possible this year. Who knows...

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

People want Nielsen, Abby, Helm, E, Howard etc all traded. Its never going to happen though.

You're right. Some of those long term contracts are just not tradeable. Wings just have wait those contracts out before they have big money to spend elsewhere. Better just hope they draft the right young guys and develop them.

 

[Flowah]

You're right. Some of those long term contracts are just not tradeable. Wings just have wait those contracts out before they have big money to spend elsewhere. Better just hope they draft the right young guys and develop them.

Or you need to ship stuff out with them to dump their cap hits which sort of moves you backwards from your goal in a rebuild.

 

[Heaton]

And thus, Holland's 10 year re-build prophecy is self-fulfilling.

 

[dragonballgtz]

The TSN Hockey Bobcast - TradeCentre Edition
Zetterberg/Abdelkader/Helm/Glendening are going to be mentors.

That's sad. We all know we have gotten worse skill wise but leadership has been lacking for a long time IMO. We go through a couple games where we look somewhat coherent but then go 5 or 6 games where we look just lost, that's lack of leadership IMO. Earlier in the year E had an interesting quote

”We used to play with desperation and we were so dialed in with our preparations with an older and experienced team,” Ericsson said. ”We just knew we could turn around games and win. That feeling, especially last year, wasn’t there. And, it’s tough to get that feeling back.”

That's lack of leadership IMO

 

[jkutswings]

You're right. Some of those long term contracts are just not tradeable. Wings just have wait those contracts out before they have big money to spend elsewhere. Better just hope they draft the right young guys and develop them.

And that they learn from the experience, and aren't quite so abundant with the immovable contracts to secondary players in the future.

Retain your core until it's time to rebuild. Sprinkle in flavors of other types of players, but it's perfectly ok to balance some continuity with some degree of saying no to a decent roster player, in order to more efficiently replace them.

 

[Shaman464]

I detest Abby's contract, but this is the first season with Dats's coat tails that he looks decent offensively.

 

[Winger98]

I know a lot of people will be repulsed by this but I would like the next coach to challenge Mantha with playing on the PK. He has a very disruptive stick and does a good job of getting in lanes. They should tell him they want him to be a star and young stars play in all situations. I would bring it up in the job interview in terms of what is your plan with Mantha to the next coach.

I love playing our best players on the PK. I think it gets them in the game, and puts them into situations where they can most influence the outcome. If you have to pare back their ES time a bit for it, that's where your lower lines should be stepping up and taking a bit more of the burden. I'd much rather have a fourth line that can go out there for 11 solid ES minutes, than one that can handle 7-8 ES minutes but eats PK.