McKenzie: 2 Groups forming within NHLPA

[Chimaera]

I'd think that there are some players who are making significant coin under the current deal as 2nd liners, who might be facing paycuts from younger talent that wouldn't give.


And I'd also think that some of the players who got significant money in Russia would say, hey, we're alright with this for a while, lets wait it out some.

 

[NYR469]

Then fine,miss another season

no that means keep negotiating...if a number of players are unhappy with the deal (and i'm just making up a hypothetical situation), guerin, linden and co aren't going to go back to the league and say "oh well looks like we aren't playing this year". they are going to go back to the league and say "look the players aren't going to go for the deal as it stands. you are gonna have to give me something. if you give us A & B, i think i can sell the guys on C & D" etc

 

[NYR469]

this could explain why the nhlpa canceled their meetings suddenly...maybe to keep the 2 groups apart, maybe to keep the 'anti-deal' group in the dark longer so a deal can be made?

 

[coppernblue]

just a question why did the players vote trevor linden as their executive head when theres other guys in the NHL who have business degrees from ivy league institutions (i know hes not playing in the NHL any more but one guy who comes to mind is ted drury went to harvard)

 

[mr gib]

just a question why did the players vote trevor linden as their executive head when theres other guys in the NHL who have business degrees from ivy league institutions (i know hes not playing in the NHL any more but one guy who comes to mind is ted drury went to harvard)

get a grip - do some homework

 

[RangerBoy]

no that means keep negotiating...if a number of players are unhappy with the deal (and i'm just making up a hypothetical situation), guerin, linden and co aren't going to go back to the league and say "oh well looks like we aren't playing this year". they are going to go back to the league and say "look the players aren't going to go for the deal as it stands. you are gonna have to give me something. if you give us A & B, i think i can sell the guys on C & D" etc

Which players are unhappy?It's not the young players such as Mike Commodore
Some of the players mentioned before in this thread.Throw in Chris Chelios

 

[coppernblue]

get a grip - do some homework

i dont understand how this addresses my question

 

[mr gib]

i dont understand how this addresses my question

sorry - google trevor linden

 

[Hasbro]

i dont understand how this addresses my question

I've asked that question too. With the way college hockey is weighted towards the ivy league you would think this would be an advantage they'd have over other PA from football, Basketball, and baseball. But no they have the high school drop outs running the show.

 

[txomisc]

Its interesting that no one mentions or questions which side Saskin is on ..

Perhaps its because most see Saskin as an insignificant bit player in this entire process.

 

[SENSible1*]

The PA divided???

What a shocking development!

 

[FLYLine27*]

What a shocking development!

Yea its so funny that this could hinder the progress they made and the hope the they will come to an agreement...but your to pro owner to care about that...you just want to see the Union fall apart...obviously not caring about the negative stuff that could come out of it...yea its so funny.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

Yea its so funny that this could hinder the progress they made and the hope the they will come to an agreement...but your to pro owner to care about that...you just want to see the Union fall apart...obviously not caring about the negative stuff that could come out of it...yea its so funny.

The union falling apart would be just catastrophic, inconceivable, devastating.

 

[Vomiting Kermit*]

=\

 

[mooseOAK*]

Perhaps its because most see Saskin as an insignificant bit player in this entire process.

I think that he is actually a robot.

 

[Digger12]

Anyone else find it interesting how McKenzie quite readily named names when speculating about the pro-deal faction, but was his usual cagey self when it came to the anti-deal side?

 

[Mess]

no that means keep negotiating...if a number of players are unhappy with the deal (and i'm just making up a hypothetical situation), guerin, linden and co aren't going to go back to the league and say "oh well looks like we aren't playing this year". they are going to go back to the league and say "look the players aren't going to go for the deal as it stands. you are gonna have to give me something. if you give us A & B, i think i can sell the guys on C & D" etc

First I want to go on record that I don't think this is the case ..

However when I read your "look the players aren't going to go for the deal as it stands. you are gonna have to give me something. if you give us A & B, i think i can sell the guys on C & D" etc"

I thought what if you are right .. but just take it one step further just to play devils advocate ..

What if this is a PA set-up .. Meaning that its staged .. and the purpose is exactly as you suggest Bob is out of the way for now .. You give us A & B and we will try to sell it .. That tactic might get the NHLPA their best possible deal they ever will by having the owners toss them a few more bones before they sign-off ..

Again just for thought and discusion .. because I am trying to figure out what Linden, Gartner, or Guerin has to go to Bob McKenzie and leak info designed to split the union. In normal Union negotiations that weakens your position.

If you are elected by the players as the president of the NHLPA comittee and you are their voice . Then are you really acting in the PA best interests to tell people of a cracks coming to divide the very group you represent. Or will you be labeled a traitor by your own group ??.

A good captain keeps his team together not divides it and a good Captain at sea does down with the ship ..

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

If you are elected by the players as the president of the NHLPA comittee and you are their voice . Then are you really acting in the PA best interests to tell people of a cracks coming to divide the very group you represent. Or will you be labeled a traitor by your own group ??.

Doesn't that depend on the percentage of players in each group?

Not everybody is going to be happy when this thing is over, it just has to get over with as EVERYBODY knows this thing is just ridiculous.

I think if he didn't think he had a majority of players on his side he wouldn't take the risk, so it's telling me a lot if he indeed is taking that risk.

 

[Mess]

Doesn't that depend on the percentage of players in each group?

Not everybody is going to be happy when this thing is over, it just has to get over with as EVERYBODY knows this thing is just ridiculous.

I think if he didn't think he had a majority of players on his side he wouldn't take the risk, so it's telling me a lot if he indeed is taking that risk.

My thinking exactly ..

Bob McKenzie is a reputable writer ..

For him to list Linden, Gartner and Guerin by name in the piece ..

He either has their full support to do so, or there is going to be a ton of fireworks ahead .. I am thinking the first part is more likely to be true .

That also means as you concluded that in order for Linden to take that position he must feel he has a majority of players that support him ..

 

[Fender]

sorry - google trevor linden

I googled him...not sure what you are trying to get us to find? Nowhere did I find that he has a buisness degree like coppernblue was hypothetically suggesting might help his case.

He certainly gives back to the community (as i found out after I googled his name) but I am lost as to what you are getting at.

 

[RangerBoy]

Toronto Sun:So long Bob and Gary?

The union, having been denied $1 billion US in salaries, is badly fractured. A splinter group that includes Chris Pronger, Jeremy Roenick and others nearly swung an end-run around PA head Bob Goodenow before the season was cancelled.

Throughout the process, players, hundreds of them, have been in contact with the league and with their individual teams. The message flowing from north to south: "Enough already, make a deal!"

But the players are exhausted and no further ahead than when the previous collective bargaining agreement expired in September.

The concept of an all-or-nothing opposition to the salary cap was a suicidal notion but it was definitive enough. When the players' association conceded the necessity of a cap just before the talks collapsed, the players were left without a platform to contest.

Already, there is talk of Goodenow's imminent departure. Good form will prevent him from leaving before a new deal is signed, but the schism inside the union between Goodenow and its rank-and-file millionaires only can result in Goodenow being gone within the year.

Bizarrely, Goodenow will be most responsible for keeping Bettman in office. Ownership won't cashier Bettman until Goodenow is gone, but once he is, they too will reach for a new face. Bettman won't be renewed, not because of this CBA, but because of the past one, and the amount of earth that had to be scorched to fix it.

http://torontosun.com/Sports/Hockey/2005/05/31/1064519-sun.html

 

[chiavsfan]

Speculation, speculation, speculation. I love the gossip, and speculation...but I want a deal done really bad. They need to start scheduling meetings earlier in the week, it kills me when they wait...Thursday and Friday, blah

 

[SENSible1*]

The union, having been denied $1 billion US in salaries, is badly fractured. A splinter group that includes Chris Pronger, Jeremy Roenick and others nearly swung an end-run around PA head Bob Goodenow before the season was cancelled.

Throughout the process, players, hundreds of them, have been in contact with the league and with their individual teams. The message flowing from north to south: "Enough already, make a deal!"

But the players are exhausted and no further ahead than when the previous collective bargaining agreement expired in September.

The concept of an all-or-nothing opposition to the salary cap was a suicidal notion but it was definitive enough. When the players' association conceded the necessity of a cap just before the talks collapsed, the players were left without a platform to contest.

Already, there is talk of Goodenow's imminent departure. Good form will prevent him from leaving before a new deal is signed, but the schism inside the union between Goodenow and its rank-and-file millionaires only can result in Goodenow being gone within the year.

Bizarrely, Goodenow will be most responsible for keeping Bettman in office. Ownership won't cashier Bettman until Goodenow is gone, but once he is, they too will reach for a new face. Bettman won't be renewed, not because of this CBA, but because of the past one, and the amount of earth that had to be scorched to fix it.

http://torontosun.com/Sports/Hockey/2005/05/31/1064519-sun.html

Another mainstream source (Ulmer) confirming the departure of Goodenow once the deal is signed.

It sure looks like Bobby will get exactly what he had coming for his monumental misread and having Gary play him at every turn.

 

[SENSible1*]

First I want to go on record that I don't think this is the case ..

However when I read your "look the players aren't going to go for the deal as it stands. you are gonna have to give me something. if you give us A & B, i think i can sell the guys on C & D" etc"

I thought what if you are right .. but just take it one step further just to play devils advocate ..

What is this is a PA set-up .. Meaning that its staged .. and the purpose is exactly as you suggest Bob is out of the way for now .. You give us A & B and we will try to sell it .. That tactic might get the NHLPA their best possible deal they ever will by having the owners toss them a few more bones before they sign-off ..

Again just for thought and discusion .. because I am trying to figure out what Linden, Gartner, or Guerin has to go to Bob McKenzie and leak info designed to split the union. In normal Union negotiaions that weakens your position.

If you are elected by the players as the president of the NHLPA comittee and you are their voice . Then are you really acting in the PA best interests to tell people of a cracks coming to divide the very group you represent. Or will you be labeled a traitor by your own group ??.

C'mon Messenger, put 2 and 2 together.

Goodenow uses his personal knob polisher Brooks to try and sour the deal so Linden and the rest of the pro-deal group fire back with this leak to McKenzie. It isn't Linden trying to split the PA, but Trevor trying to prevent Bob from doing so.

I'm sure Linden knows the relative breakdown of the factions and is confident of the outcome, but wants to shore up the rank and file by demonstrating the strong support from the executive for moving ahead with this deal. Hence the naming of Guerin, Gartner and popular veteran Shanahan.

This is simply a matter of the internal PA politics being played out through the press.

Goodenow doesn't have the class to admit defeat and go out with class, so we end up getting to see what should be an internal matter.

 

[SENSible1*]

Yea its so funny that this could hinder the progress they made and the hope the they will come to an agreement...but your to pro owner to care about that...you just want to see the Union fall apart...obviously not caring about the negative stuff that could come out of it...yea its so funny.

It won't hinder the process and will hasten the departure of the biggest reason for the lengthy lockout. I don't see how that could be viewed as anything but positive for both the NHL and the PA in the long run. The PA had to collapse and get rid of Goodenow for the coming partnership to work effectively. In turn, the NHL will have to replace Bettman to help smooth relations with the players.

In this type of staredown, no deal could be made until one side caved. But you can't really expect the pro-NHL faction here to not have a laugh when the inevitable outcome we have been declaring from the very beginning appears to be coming to fruition in spite of the furious denials from the pro-PA faction that it could ever happen.