McKenzie: 2 Groups forming within NHLPA

[CMUMike]

It seems that with the deal close, the NHLPA may have some internal issues to work out before all can be wrapped up for good.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie.asp

One faction is what we'll call the pro-deal players. They want to get a deal done and get that deal done as soon as possible. This faction is said to be led by Trevor Linden, Mike Gartner, Brendan Shanahan and Bill Guerin, amongst others.

The other faction is what we'll call the anti-deal players. They believe things are moving way too far way too fast, that the pro-deal players are effectively rolling over and playing dead for the NHL on every critical issue and that the NHL isn't making enough concessions.

Exactly who belongs to this anti-deal group is open to speculation.

One would think that if Linden, Gartner, and Guerin were on-board, this baby would be wrapped up.

Click to read more...

 

[ladybugblue]

I had thought this might happen. I hope this doesn't derail the process. I want to see NHL in the fall this year. Do the NHLPA players on the anti deal want to see what the world will look like after replacement players are tried in Jan 2006? That is the only way I can see a better deal happening, that is, if the replacement players are not successful in selling tickets. It sure is a big gamble, I don't know if I would want to do that, but not my choice.

 

[RangerBoy]

Which players are in the anti-deal camp?Considering almost the entire NHLPA exec committee is on the deal side,then how much of an opposition is going to be mounted?Watch Arturs Irbe is one leading the anti-deal side.When was the last time he played in the NHL?Or it could be the nimrod twins in Toronto.Bryan McCabe and Darcy Tucker.Where does Trent Klatt stand?He has made some militant statements about a cap.He won't be in the league when it plays again.Daniel Alfredsson?Michael Peca?

 

[misfit]

My first guess would be Damphousse is and anti-deal player because of his antics in the Gretz/Lemieux debacle (allegedly)

 

[Hasbro]

They believe things are moving way too far way too fast,

"Too far, too fast"?! They had ten ****ing months!

 

[CMUMike]

From the article, it's not even clear that the anti-deal group extends much beyond Goodenow at this point. I don't think it's a surprise that this would happen. Most of us realized that for a deal to get done it likely would seem to favor the owners and Goodenow is never going to accept that even if his constituents approve the deal.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

"Too far, too fast"?! They had ten ****ing months!

Yes, I'd say "too far, too fast" if I was a player who just gave up a years salary in a fight against a salary cap.
I'd be like, "what the hell? Why are we going to agree to a $36Million cap? There's no way, if we were against a $42 M cap before. I ain't signing a damn thing until they reproduce the $42 Million offer. And if we do agree to $36Million, I want Goodenow gone. And I want Linden and the executive commitee gone, as well."

 

[NYR469]

Which players are in the anti-deal camp?Considering almost the entire NHLPA exec committee is on the deal side,then how much of an opposition is going to be mounted?Watch Arturs Irbe is one leading the anti-deal side.When was the last time he played in the NHL?Or it could be the nimrod twins in Toronto.Bryan McCabe and Darcy Tucker.Where does Trent Klatt stand?He has made some militant statements about a cap.He won't be in the league when it plays again.Daniel Alfredsson?Michael Peca?

after the executive committee agrees to a deal it has to go back to ALL of the players for a vote so the 'anti-deal' players don't necessarily have to be in the meetings. player reps could be contacting teammates about details and going back to the executive committee and telling them 'i don't think the guys are going to vote yes on this'

 

[mr gib]

quite the twist

 

[RangerBoy]

From the article, it's not even clear that the anti-deal group extends much beyond Goodenow at this point. I don't think it's a surprise that this would happen. Most of us realized that for a deal to get done it likely would seem to favor the owners and Goodenow is never going to accept that even if his constituents approve the deal.

If the rank and file approves the deal,then Goodenow can resign in protest.What is Goodenow's end game?Continue to wait and wait and wait.What can Goodenow do if the deal side actually makes a deal?Not allow them to accept it

 

[RangerBoy]

after the executive committee agrees to a deal it has to go back to ALL of the players for a vote so the 'anti-deal' players don't necessarily have to be in the meetings. player reps could be contacting teammates about details and going back to the executive committee and telling them 'i don't think the guys are going to vote yes on this'

Then fine,miss another season

 

[Hasbro]

Might have something to do with Goodenow know the next deal he negotiates after this is his severence package.

 

[Hasbro]

Yes, I'd say "too far, too fast" if I was a player who just gave up a years salary in a fight against a salary cap.
I'd be like, "what the hell? Why are we going to agree to a $36Million cap? There's no way, if we were against a $42 M cap before. I ain't signing a damn thing until they reproduce the $42 Million offer. And if we do agree to $36Million, I want Goodenow gone. And I want Linden and the executive commitee gone, as well."

Which raises the question of whose intrest they have been working in.

When the revolution comes they'll be the first against the wall.

 

[mr gib]

If the rank and file approves the deal,then Goodenow can resign in protest.What is Goodenow's end game?Continue to wait and wait and wait.What can Goodenow do if the deal side actually makes a deal?Not allow them to accept it

mckenzie has said that before - bob will fall on his sword before he agrees to the undesired - he may resign - dosen't want to go down in history as a failed union leader -

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Even though he's my favorite goaltender of all time/favorite player.

Irbe is likely head of the NHLPA no deal talks...What does he have to loose honestly by not playing again this year.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Which raises the question of whose intrest they have been working in.

When the revolution comes they'll be the first against the wall.

First of all, we're not sure about the accuracy of McKenzie's report. I know he's admired around here, but if the pro-owner posters are honest with themselves, they'll admit that he's been a schill for the owners, just like Brooks and Strach have been schills for the union.
A report coming out saying that there is a major split in solidarity in the union might be designed to test the solidarity.
You know damn well if Strach or Brooks were to say the owners had a major split, the pro-owner would be denouncing the credibility of the writers.
And honestly, in this dispute, McKenzie's credibility has fallen mightily. He's been just as wrong as everyone else.

Anyway, I think it might be fair to say that Goodenow overplayed his hand.
But you must remember that he won last time by sticking to his guns. Perhaps that has been his strategy all along.
And maybe he's just going to fail this time.

Either way, I think it stretches the imagination to say he's not working in the players' interest.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Even though he's my favorite goaltender of all time/favorite player.

Irbe is likely head of the NHLPA no deal talks...What does he have to loose honestly by not playing again this year.

Yeah, but what does he really have to gain? Not a ton.

 

[Hasbro]

First of all, we're not sure about the accuracy of McKenzie's report. I know he's admired around here, but if the pro-owner posters are honest with themselves, they'll admit that he's been a schill for the owners, just like Brooks and Strach have been schills for the union.

That would be Fishler you're thinking of.

If anyone up top at the NHLPA is holding up this deal because they want to retain their position, despite the wishes of their membership then they are almost as bad a Eagleson.

 

[NYR1724]

I'm glad to see Trevor Linden leading the charge for a CBA. Linden is above Goodenow and should take charge. Is it required for the players to vote on this I thought that was what the executive team was for and more specifically Linden was for. i think its time the PA accept the fact that in my opinion they lost the battle of luxury tax vs. salary cap. There will be a cap and linkage, the anti PA guys should accept that and negotiate other areas like qualifying offers, arbitration, etc in their favor. I really do not care what happens as long as this deal gets done in June and the puck is dropped in October. The sooner they get the deal done, the sooner they can start the LONG rebuilding process. Sooner they have a CBA the sooner they can get a TV deal, draft, season ticket sales etc underway.

 

[mr gib]

I'm glad to see Trevor Linden leading the charge for a CBA. Linden is above Goodenow and should take charge. Is it required for the players to vote on this I thought that was what the executive team was for and more specifically Linden was for. i think its time the PA accept the fact that in my opinion they lost the battle of luxury tax vs. salary cap. There will be a cap and linkage, the anti PA guys should accept that and negotiate other areas like qualifying offers, arbitration, etc in their favor. I really do not care what happens as long as this deal gets done in June and the puck is dropped in October. The sooner they get the deal done, the sooner they can start the LONG rebuilding process. Sooner they have a CBA the sooner they can get a TV deal, draft, season ticket sales etc underway.

good point - i always thought trev brought some real world understanding to the gig -

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

That would be Fishler you're thinking of.

If anyone up top at the NHLPA is holding up this deal because they want to retain their position, despite the wishes of their membership then they are almost as bad a Eagleson.

Good lord. Fishler is probably still schilling for Zeigler.
But McKenzie really has been completely one-sided in his reporting. Then again, like Brooks and Stach, McKenzie isn't a reporter. He's a columnist.
Big difference.

 

[kdb209]

I'm glad to see Trevor Linden leading the charge for a CBA. Linden is above Goodenow and should take charge. Is it required for the players to vote on this I thought that was what the executive team was for and more specifically Linden was for. i think its time the PA accept the fact that in my opinion they lost the battle of luxury tax vs. salary cap. There will be a cap and linkage, the anti PA guys should accept that and negotiate other areas like qualifying offers, arbitration, etc in their favor. I really do not care what happens as long as this deal gets done in June and the puck is dropped in October. The sooner they get the deal done, the sooner they can start the LONG rebuilding process. Sooner they have a CBA the sooner they can get a TV deal, draft, season ticket sales etc underway.

Yes it is required for the players to vote. The NHLPA executive commitee, after it has a deal that it approves (or not too strongly objects to), must pass it on to the players for a rank-and-file vote of all PA members to approve the deal.

 

[Malo]

First of all, we're not sure about the accuracy of McKenzie's report. I know he's admired around here, but if the pro-owner posters are honest with themselves, they'll admit that he's been a schill for the owners, just like Brooks and Strach have been schills for the union.
A report coming out saying that there is a major split in solidarity in the union might be designed to test the solidarity.
You know damn well if Strach or Brooks were to say the owners had a major split, the pro-owner would be denouncing the credibility of the writers.
And honestly, in this dispute, McKenzie's credibility has fallen mightily. He's been just as wrong as everyone else.

Anyway, I think it might be fair to say that Goodenow overplayed his hand.
But you must remember that he won last time by sticking to his guns. Perhaps that has been his strategy all along.
And maybe he's just going to fail this time..

yea but everyone has been wrong, so it's not like he's the only one. out of all the "reporters" i'll take bob's word on most thing over some of the other "reporters", on a second note, i don't think the players would lose another season, the owners i could see sitting one more, they showed us they aren't scared of losing a season. i think the players have now come to see that it isn't going to get any better for them. take what they can get now, or keep giving up more.
Either way, I think it stretches the imagination to say he's not working in the players' interest. i just hope we don't have to wait too much longer

 

[Mess]

Its interesting that no one mentions or questions which side Saskin is on ..

 

[mr gib]

yea but everyone has been wrong, so it's not like he's the only one. out of all the "reporters" i'll take bob's word on most thing over some of the other "reporters", on a second note, i don't think the players would lose another season, the owners i could see sitting one more, they showed us they aren't scared of losing a season. i think the players have now come to see that it isn't going to get any better for them. take what they can get now, or keep giving up more.
Either way, I think it stretches the imagination to say he's not working in the players' interest. i just hope we don't have to wait too much longer

fry me - linden has always thought of the game first - they're done - if the lockout continues the game will be where ??? - nothing left for the 41 to play for - ( 41 guys over 5 mil )