McKenzie: 2 Groups forming within NHLPA

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RangerBoy

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Larry Brooks did not write one negative word in his Sunday column on the lockout coming to a conclusion.Larry probably hates the deal but he just reported what he was told and did not provide his own opinion.He mentioned one source on each side confirming some details.That story did not come from Bob Goodenow.Each side has a member who has a pretty good relationship with Brooks:Lou Lamoriello and Bill Guerin.Both Lamoriello and Guerin are in the meetings together and would know the intimate details of a new CBA
 

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RangerBoy said:
Larry Brooks did not write one negative word in his Sunday column on the lockout coming to a conclusion.Larry probably hates the deal but he just reported what he was told and did not provide his own opinion.He mentioned one source on each side confirming some details.That story did not come from Bob Goodenow.Each side has a member who has a pretty good relationship with Brooks:Lou Lamoriello and Bill Guerin.Both Lamoriello and Guerin are in the meetings together and would know the intimate details of a new CBA

Brooks has been hysterically pro-PA and anti-Bettman throughout this lockout. One has to look at his work as a whole to get the context of this article.

The article did not cite an NHL source, Brooks CLAIMED to have spoken with one. A rather important distinction when dealing with an author who thinks nothing of posting his personal fantasies as trade proposals.

The article was Goodenow's last kick at the can in terms of trying to sour the deal. Hope he enjoys his next job.
 

jpsharkfan

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Thunderstruck said:
Brooks has been hysterically pro-PA and anti-Bettman throughout this lockout. One has to look at his work as a whole to get the context of this article.

The article did not cite an NHL source, Brooks CLAIMED to have spoken with one. A rather important distinction when dealing with an author who thinks nothing of posting his personal fantasies as trade proposals.

The article was Goodenow's last kick at the can in terms of trying to sour the deal. Hope he enjoys his next job.

Exactly. Brook's article was by no means an innocent article stating facts. This is "Brooks", and you know that if he wasnt ranting and raving against the league he had an ulterior motive.

The next day McKenzie posts his article. This is a paragraph from the article:
But members of the anti-deal group believe they represent a silent majority of NHLPA members, who if they knew the exact details of what was being agreed to would rise up and say no way. We should find out soon enough whether the anti-dealers have the numbers they think they have.

Is there one who still doesnt get that Brooks article was the means to get the exact details out and to try and stop the progress and ultimately a deal getting done? McKenzie's article was posted to try and counter the damage attempted by Brooks article. Let us all hope that McKenzie's article was much more effective then Brooks.
 

Egil

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I don't think you can go after McKenzie's credibility. He certainly isn't a pro owner shill like Fishler, and he isn't an NHLPA shill like Brooks. In fact, when on the TSN panel with Burke, Healy and McKenzie, he clearly falls in the middle of those 2.

The fact that he named names of the pro-deal group tells me that it was in fact the "pro-deal" group who gave him the information. As such, we can only consider it valid, IMHO.
 

Crazy_Ike

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NYR469 said:
this could explain why the nhlpa canceled their meetings suddenly...maybe to keep the 2 groups apart, maybe to keep the 'anti-deal' group in the dark longer so a deal can be made?

Not "in the dark", but away from the main body of players where they could have done a lot of damage. This is what some of us mentioned at the time when we knew Linden's original excuse was ludicrous ("no progress" indeed, feh).

Even at the last meeting they had there were physical altercations between players, and we've got the report of NHL players fighting during the Memorial Cup (I didn't catch any followup on that though, could be unrelated). But the anti-deal group has got to be getting smaller as it becomes obvious to more and more that the PA has no ground left to stand on and further delay only makes the bleeding that much worse.

Looks like some sanity might be returning to the NHLPA after this summer at long last. Once Bob is gone.
 

Montrealer

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Fender said:
I googled him...not sure what you are trying to get us to find? Nowhere did I find that he has a buisness degree like coppernblue was hypothetically suggesting might help his case.

He certainly gives back to the community (as i found out after I googled his name) but I am lost as to what you are getting at.


Who knows... I googled him too and I guess I don't know how to do my homework either.

Although I did learn that he was born Trevor van der Linden, which is kind of interesting in an unimportant kind of way.
 

Mess

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This is a real dangerous time in the negotiations ..

Union Busting has consequences ..

If you are dividing the Union into Pro-Deal verses Anti-Deal ..

Its obvious what the Pro-dealers want ... Well it is also obvious what options are available to the Anti-deal members..

DECERTIFICATION OF UNION

If they feel Linden and the Committee are opposing their hired leader Goodenow then they could call for a Decertification vote .. Which if successful of course and this all depends on the split in the members group ..would knock the NHLPA committee out as the bargaining unit on their behalf ..

You are going to have real strong pro-deal players and real-anti deal hardliners ..The soft spoken fence sitters in the middle that will decide this perhaps ..

Do they feel they can earn more money via the deal on the table or as UFA in a decertified world ??

The naming of Linden, Guerin and Gartner by Mackenzie suggests they have the numbers, however if they are wrong ..

CA BOOOOOOOOOOOOM !!!!

So how this plays out in the next few weeks will be very interesting ..
 

Hasbro

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Montrealer said:
Who knows... I googled him too and I guess I don't know how to do my homework either.

Although I did learn that he was born Trevor van der Linden, which is kind of interesting in an unimportant kind of way.
THAT'S IT! He's in league with the Kaiser! :sarcasm:
 

SENSible1*

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The Messenger said:
This is a real dangerous time in the negotiations ..

Union Busting has consequences ..

If you are dividing the Union into Pro-Deal verses Anti-Deal ..

Its obvious what the Pro-dealers want ... Well it is also obvious what options are available to the Anti-deal members..

DECERTIFICATION OF UNION

If they feel Linden and the Committee are opposing their hired leader Goodenow then they could call for a Decertification vote .. Which if successful of course and this all depends on the split in the members group ..would knock the NHLPA committee out as the bargaining unit on their behalf ..

You are going to have real strong pro-deal players and real-anti deal hardliners ..The soft spoken fence sitters in the middle that will decide this perhaps ..

Do they feel they can earn more money via the deal on the table or as UFA in a decertified world ??

The naming of Linden, Guerin and Gartner by Mackenzie suggests they have the numbers, however if they are wrong ..

CA BOOOOOOOOOOOOM !!!!

So how this plays out in the next few weeks will be very interesting ..

Goody can take the 10 players that want to sit out another season and try for a decert vote. Good luck to him with that and in his next job.
 

fan mao rong

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The Messenger said:
This is a real dangerous time in the negotiations ..

Union Busting has consequences ..

If you are dividing the Union into Pro-Deal verses Anti-Deal ..

Its obvious what the Pro-dealers want ... Well it is also obvious what options are available to the Anti-deal members..

DECERTIFICATION OF UNION

If they feel Linden and the Committee are opposing their hired leader Goodenow then they could call for a Decertification vote .. Which if successful of course and this all depends on the split in the members group ..would knock the NHLPA committee out as the bargaining unit on their behalf ..

You are going to have real strong pro-deal players and real-anti deal hardliners ..The soft spoken fence sitters in the middle that will decide this perhaps ..

Do they feel they can earn more money via the deal on the table or as UFA in a decertified world ??

The naming of Linden, Guerin and Gartner by Mackenzie suggests they have the numbers, however if they are wrong ..

CA BOOOOOOOOOOOOM !!!!

So how this plays out in the next few weeks will be very interesting ..
Since this stuff is dredged up on a regular basis, now that it stands somewhat alone I will deny this premise. A labor organization can not just de-certify as it chooses. See the decision of Justice Breyer (U.S. Supreme Court) in the last NBA lockout. The NBAPA tried to de-certify in such a manner and it was dissallowed because such an action must be separated in substance and distance from an ongoing labor dispute, or words to that effect. It is not open as a negotiating tactic in order to thwart the effects of collective bargaining. So a new system would likely be well established before such an effort could proceed, and the fruits of the effort would likely not reverse the results they do not like.
 

AH

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fan mao rong said:
Since this stuff is dredged up on a regular basis, now that it stands somewhat alone I will deny this premise. A labor organization can not just de-certify as it chooses. See the decision of Justice Breyer (U.S. Supreme Court) in the last NBA lockout. The NBAPA tried to de-certify in such a manner and it was dissallowed because such an action must be separated in substance and distance from an ongoing labor dispute, or words to that effect. It is not open as a negotiating tactic in order to thwart the effects of collective bargaining. So a new system would likely be well established before such an effort could proceed, and the fruits of the effort would likely not reverse the results they do not like.

CA BOOOOOOOOOOOOM !!!!
 

Mess

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fan mao rong said:
Since this stuff is dredged up on a regular basis, now that it stands somewhat alone I will deny this premise. A labor organization can not just de-certify as it chooses. See the decision of Justice Breyer (U.S. Supreme Court) in the last NBA lockout. The NBAPA tried to de-certify in such a manner and it was dissallowed because such an action must be separated in substance and distance from an ongoing labor dispute, or words to that effect. It is not open as a negotiating tactic in order to thwart the effects of collective bargaining. So a new system would likely be well established before such an effort could proceed, and the fruits of the effort would likely not reverse the results they do not like.
I am not suggesting that it happens immediately .. I see it as a tool to oppose and unfavourable CBA in place ..

If this dispute went to IMPASSE and the NHL inserted its own CBA then that could be a time .. The NFL went that route in 1989 ...

However if the NHLPA committee brings to vote the latest offer on the Table and it fails to be ratified as the new CBA, as the NO's outweigh the YES's ..Then Linden and the committee are done being in power really if they are opposing Goodenow on this .. The rank and file hard liners have the majority and as such would encourage and support Goodenow to fight on .. but with the numbers in his pocket Goodenow and the NHL OWNERS would know 100% that he has Decertication as a valid tool in his toolbox to be played at the appropriate time ..

However at this stage it would likely just lead to a KA BOOOM of the committee .. They will be asked to step down and new members asked to take their place.. If they are using McKenzie against their own membership, then they are no longer serving the best interest of the NHLPA as a whole at this time and they are risking their positions .. This cause a delay in bargaining and exactly what the Goodenow anti-deal members want ..

We have a Power struggle here in the process if Mackenzie article is true and at some point we wil need to know what the split in membership is really like. .

If there are 750 NHLPA members then Linden's pro-deal group would need 326 members to get a new CBA voted in. Lets hope he has those numbers to get Hockey back on the ice in September.. Based on Bob McKenzie's usually strong reputation and that report it is looking positive that more players oppose Goodenow then support him, now we just have to see what their feelings are on the CBA proposal being offered.
 
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Lanny MacDonald*

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mr gib said:
guess not

Educate us oh wise one. Multiple people have combed the internet looking for this bit of information that will turn the tables on us all, and have failed to come up with one thing, so please tell us what you supposedly know that no one else (including the millions on the web) seem to know!

:help:
 

mr gib

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The Iconoclast said:
Educate us oh wise one. Multiple people have combed the internet looking for this bit of information that will turn the tables on us all, and have failed to come up with one thing, so please tell us what you supposedly know that no one else (including the millions on the web) seem to know!

:help:
thats funny - railing against the pa yet you know nothing about it - stew a while longer -
 

mackdogs*

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mr gib said:
thats funny - railing against the pa yet you know nothing about it - stew a while longer -
I found it. He got one of them mail order degrees from Russia. He majored in tax evasion while minoring in black market trading. Thank you google!
 

SENSible1*

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The Messenger said:
I am not suggesting that it happens immediately .. I see it as a tool to oppose and unfavourable CBA in place ..

If this dispute went to IMPASSE and the NHL inserted its own CBA then that could be a time .. The NFL went that route in 1989 ...

However if the NHLPA committee brings to vote the latest offer on the Table and it fails to be ratified as the new CBA, as the NO's outweigh the YES's ..Then Linden and the committee are done being in power really if they are opposing Goodenow on this .. The rank and file hard liners have the majority and as such would encourage and support Goodenow to fight on .. but with the numbers in his pocket Goodenow and the NHL OWNERS would know 100% that he has Decertication as a valid tool in his toolbox to be played at the appropriate time ..

However at this stage it would likely just lead to a KA BOOOM of the committee .. They will be asked to step down and new members asked to take their place.. If they are using McKenzie against their own membership, then they are no longer serving the best interest of the NHLPA as a whole at this time and they are risking their positions .. This cause a delay in bargaining and exactly what the Goodenow anti-deal members want ..

We have a Power struggle here in the process if Mackenzie article is true and at some point we wil need to know what the split in membership is really like. .

If there are 750 NHLPA members then Linden's pro-deal group would need 326 members to get a new CBA voted in. Lets hope he has those numbers to get Hockey back on the ice in September.. Based on Bob McKenzie's usually strong reputation and that report it is looking positive that more players oppose Goodenow then support him, now we just have to see what their feelings are on the CBA proposal being offered.

If Goodenow had the support of even a third of the PA members the executive would never have changed their stance. It is obvious to everyone that doesn't have their head buried in the sand that the executive changed their stance and choose to ignore Goody's advice on the basis of the majority wanting a deal.

PS Keep up the frantic spinning....I loved the fallback to the decert boogeyman...brilliant... :biglaugh:
 

gerbilanium

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Oct 17, 2003
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I found it:

A dedicated student, Trevor attended Crestwood Elementary, Alexandra Junior High and graduated from Medicine Hat High School in 1988.

or maybe this:

Has your work with the PA given you any thoughts on what you might do when your playing career is over?

A: You know what? I never had an opportunity to have a formal education out of high school, so I've always tried to continue my education through other avenues. Certainly this has been one of them. But I can honestly say I'm in my 16th season, and I have no idea what I'm going to do when I'm done playing hockey. It's one of those things where I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I don't know if I'll stay in the game or if I'll do something that's completely independent of the game, which is appealing. I don't know. I've thought a lot about it, but I don't have any answers.
 

Lanny MacDonald*

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mr gib said:
thats funny - railing against the pa yet you know nothing about it - stew a while longer -

Yeah, I'm really stewing. You are a good little PA lemming and follow their strategy of delay-delay-delay.

:biglaugh:
 

mr gib

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The Iconoclast said:
Yeah, I'm really stewing. You are a good little PA lemming and follow their strategy of delay-delay-delay.

:biglaugh:
let's just say this -

The NHLPA is a labour union whose members are the players of the NHL and whose mandate is to represent their interests. Headquartered in Toronto, the NHLPA has a staff of approximately 50 employees who work in such varied disciplines as labour law, product licensing and community relations.

While the management of daily operations is the responsibility of an Executive Director - currently Robert W. Goodenow - ultimate power over all NHLPA activities resides with the players, who each year elect representatives from their respective NHL teams in order to form an Executive Board. Overseeing the board is an Executive Committee, which currently consists of President Trevor Linden, who replaced Mike Gartner in June 1998, and
Vice-Presidents, Bob Boughner, Vincent Damphousse, Daniel Alfredsson, Bill Guerin, Trent Klatt and Arturs Irbe.

code word - elect
 

Mess

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mr gib said:
thats funny - railing against the pa yet you know nothing about it - stew a while longer -
That's fine let them have their fun ..

In the long run when the CBA is in place, all these posters will be running back to see their favourite players back on the ice that they have been raging so hard against in this whole battle ..

You can tell by their posts that they are not taking the time to follow the details as they unfold ..

Those of us that want to analyze the situation and discuss the merits of various articles can continue to do so, to determine and perhaps guess what the next chess move is for either side ..

I find it very interesting as this CBA battle plays out.. Its almost as if my hockey viewing pleasure has be replaced with a really long on going LAW and ORDER episode ..
 

Hoss

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Feb 21, 2005
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mr gib said:
let's just say this -

The NHLPA is a labour union whose members are the players of the NHL and whose mandate is to represent their interests. Headquartered in Toronto, the NHLPA has a staff of approximately 50 employees who work in such varied disciplines as labour law, product licensing and community relations.

While the management of daily operations is the responsibility of an Executive Director - currently Robert W. Goodenow - ultimate power over all NHLPA activities resides with the players, who each year elect representatives from their respective NHL teams in order to form an Executive Board. Overseeing the board is an Executive Committee, which currently consists of President Trevor Linden, who replaced Mike Gartner in June 1998, and
Vice-Presidents, Bob Boughner, Vincent Damphousse, Daniel Alfredsson, Bill Guerin, Trent Klatt and Arturs Irbe.

code word - elect
Why you people insist on argueing with Icky is puzzling. He is incapable of responding without snotty, insulting drivel that has just enough 25 cent words to impress the throng who follow in quick time jack boot fashion the drum beat offered up his saintly ever goodness Mr Bettman and the even keeled likes of Jeremy Jacobs. Relax because it's only hockey and I predict when this new CBA comes up for renewal Icky will still be pointing to the raw deal the owners got tricked into signing and how the PA made out like bandits. Those greedy, non cancer curing players!
 
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