McKenzie: 2 Groups forming within NHLPA

[Montrealer]

let's just say this -

The NHLPA is a labour union whose members are the players of the NHL and whose mandate is to represent their interests. Headquartered in Toronto, the NHLPA has a staff of approximately 50 employees who work in such varied disciplines as labour law, product licensing and community relations.

While the management of daily operations is the responsibility of an Executive Director - currently Robert W. Goodenow - ultimate power over all NHLPA activities resides with the players, who each year elect representatives from their respective NHL teams in order to form an Executive Board. Overseeing the board is an Executive Committee, which currently consists of President Trevor Linden, who replaced Mike Gartner in June 1998, and
Vice-Presidents, Bob Boughner, Vincent Damphousse, Daniel Alfredsson, Bill Guerin, Trent Klatt and Arturs Irbe.

code word - elect

We knew he was elected, doofus, we were wondering why he was elected.

You truly are a propellerhead.

 

[Mess]

If Goodenow had the support of even a third of the PA members the executive would never have changed their stance. It is obvious to everyone that doesn't have their head buried in the sand that the executive changed their stance and choose to ignore Goody's advice on the basis of the majority wanting a deal.

What do you mean changed their stance ??

Their goal has always been to get a CBA in place to get hockey back.

The process of collective bargaining is designed to allow them to get the best deal they can through that process.

If the latest Brooks article is accurate then there is a bases for a deal here to be made .. We don't know all the details yet and not everything is agreed to even by Linden and the committee at this stage ..

However this current offer on the table is a whole lot easier to sell then the FINAL OFFER .. and those that are following the details and understand that 100-110% guaranteed on Qualifying offers is a heck of a lot better then 75% as offered before that could mean a second 25% paycut to a hockey player by a hard line owner after he gave back 24% rollback to get a CBA in place .. and that is just one issue ..Arbitration rights for the player, UFA at 28, meaningful revenue sharing and a hard cap floor all promote more and better paying jobs for the NHLPA that the 42.5 never gave them ..

This is moving in the right direction, and the only difference really between Goodenow and Linden camps is that one camp feels even a better deal is to be had down the road, then one currently being discussed ..

Think of it like the stock market. When to buy and when to sell .. Sometimes when stock is rising then you gamble to hold on to it in hopes it will continue to go up, but you also risk that it may go down as well .. That analogy is no different then we are seeing now .. The NHLPA is weighing the damage that may occur to the industry of the next few months to accepting BEST OFFER now .. but unlike the Stock Market you will never know if you made the right decision, as a completed deal now does not allow us to ever know WHAT IF..

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

code word - elect

Wow! Linden was elected. I guess we can call off the hunt for missing documents of the knowledge none of us had. Oh wait, we ALL knoew that he was elected, so what was the point of all this cloak and dagger stuff? The brilliance of your argument is mind boggling.

 

[GSC2k2*]

let's just say this -

The NHLPA is a labour union whose members are the players of the NHL and whose mandate is to represent their interests. Headquartered in Toronto, the NHLPA has a staff of approximately 50 employees who work in such varied disciplines as labour law, product licensing and community relations.

While the management of daily operations is the responsibility of an Executive Director - currently Robert W. Goodenow - ultimate power over all NHLPA activities resides with the players, who each year elect representatives from their respective NHL teams in order to form an Executive Board. Overseeing the board is an Executive Committee, which currently consists of President Trevor Linden, who replaced Mike Gartner in June 1998, and
Vice-Presidents, Bob Boughner, Vincent Damphousse, Daniel Alfredsson, Bill Guerin, Trent Klatt and Arturs Irbe.

code word - elect

Well, that was pretty anti-climactic ...

What's more, it was completely unresponsive to the point of the original post, which was why the NHLPA has someone in place who has no special skills, insight or experience in this regard. It is sheer pedantry to say "well, they elected him." No kidding, sherlock. The larger point is that the PA is generally at a disadvantage having high school grads with no experience at the helm who take a long time to even get up to speed before determining their head professional is executing a deeply flawed strategy. If they were led by guys with business experience or at least education, they would have challenged Goodenow a long time ago and we would be just finishing up the playoffs.

So your point all along as "Well, they elected him, duh ...". Perhaps next post you can garner some attention with some perceptiveness.

 

[mr gib]

Well, that was pretty anti-climactic ...

What's more, it was completely unresponsive to the point of the original post, which was why the NHLPA has someone in place who has no special skills, insight or experience in this regard. It is sheer pedantry to say "well, they elected him." No kidding, sherlock. The larger point is that the PA is generally at a disadvantage having high school grads with no experience at the helm who take a long time to even get up to speed before determining their head professional is executing a deeply flawed strategy. If they were led by guys with business experience or at least education, they would have challenged Goodenow a long time ago and we would be just finishing up the playoffs.

So your point all along as "Well, they elected him, duh ...". Perhaps next post you can garner some attention with some perceptiveness.

bash away - you say your hockey fans - why was linden elected? - why do you think? -

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

We knew he was elected, doofus, we were wondering why he was elected.

maybe he was the only guy willing to be nominated ? maybe the guys with he education, cant be bothered with the politics involved ?

its quite conceivable that many of the brothers have no intrest in the effort or distraction that comes with being on the executive, never mind the president.

dr

 

[Crazy_Ike]

That's fine let them have their fun ..

In the long run when the CBA is in place, all these posters will be running back to see their favourite players back on the ice that they have been raging so hard against in this whole battle ..

I'll be watching my favorite TEAM back on the ice. My opinion of the players who's idiocy caused this whole mess will not change.

You can tell by their posts that they are not taking the time to follow the details as they unfold ..

Those of us that want to analyze the situation and discuss the merits of various articles can continue to do so, to determine and perhaps guess what the next chess move is for either side ..

You call taking every press release and negotiating move and twisting it until it somehow says that Goodenow is once again miles ahead of everyone moving towards a court dictated settlement in the players favor "analyzing the situation" or "following the details"? Because that's all you ever seem to get out of any of it...

Your "analyses" leave a lot to be desired, Messenger. Some of your wilder fantasy posts make Strachan look sane...

I find it very interesting as this CBA battle plays out.. Its almost as if my hockey viewing pleasure has be replaced with a really long on going LAW and ORDER episode ..

Battle? Feh. What it has been is a train wreck of a union who didn't want to make a deal at all finding out that even if they originally thought they could last two years without hockey, the situation during the offseason after the lost year would get so bad they wouldn't have the option of waiting any longer unless they never want to see a big paycheque again. This hasn't been a battle, it's been a slaughter. The PA has made mistake after mistake after mistake, and it has cost the owners, the fans, and themselves most of all.

There is no PA endgame, your fantasies aside. This fight is over and done. If this is a chess match, all they have left is their king, and he's aready a dead man walking. They took a lot of people down with them, I guess you can give them that much, and will manage to rescue a couple points in their favor as the league tries to throw a bone or two to smooth things over as much as can be done nowadays, but this entire process has now been the worst disaster in professional sports union history.

When your "analyses" catch up to where most of us already are, you'll see that.

 

[Mess]

maybe he was the only guy willing to be nominated ? maybe the guys with he education, cant be bothered with the politics involved ?

its quite conceivable that many of the brothers have no intrest in the effort or distraction that comes with being on the executive, never mind the president.

dr

Linden is an excellent choice to boot .. Well spoken , well liked and highly respected as both a hockey player and an individual off the ice and in the community ..

I think questioning him has not merit IMO ..

If I was an NHL hockey player I would have no problem relying on Linden to speak on my behalf in this issues ..

Linden isn't a hardliner and balances out Goodenow's approach quite nicely in the GOOD COP ..BAD COP tactic of CBA negotiations ..

 

[GSC2k2*]

What do you mean changed their stance ??

Their goal has always been to get a CBA in place to get hockey back.

The process of collective bargaining is designed to allow them to get the best deal they can through that process.

If the latest Brooks article is accurate then their is a bases for a deal here to be made .. We don't know all the details yet and not everything is agreed to even by Linden and the committee at this stage ..

However this current offer on the table is a whole lot easier to sell then the FINAL OFFER .. and those that are following the details and understand that 100-110% guaranteed on Qualifying offers is a heck of a lot better then 75% as offered before that could mean a second 25% paycut to a hockey player by a hard line owner after he gave back 24% rollback to get a CBA in place .. and that is just one issue ..Arbitration rights for the player, UFA at 28, meaningful revenue sharing and a hard cap floor all promote more and better paying jobs for the NHLPA that the 42.5 never gave them ..

This is moving in the right direction, and the only difference really between Goodenow and Linden camps is that one camp feels even a better deal is to be had down the road, then one currently being discussed ..

Think of it like the stock market. When to buy and when to sell .. Sometimes when stock is rising then you gamble to hold on to it in hopes it will continue to go up, but you also risk that it may go down as well .. That analagy is no differnet then we are seeing know .. The NHLPA is weighing the damage that may occur to the industry of the next few months to accepting BEST OFFER now .. but unlike the Stock Market you will never know if you made the right decision, as a completed deal now does not allow us to ever know WHAT IF..

Your hapless spinning and "black night defence" continues to awe and amaze. I never thought I would do this to one of your posts, Massager, but:



That being said, you continue to make factual statements which you know to be false. You and your cronies are using the "Final Offer" as a baseline to suggest falsely that this offer is better. While that is an unadulterated pantload, that is for another post. Here, I am calling you on the proposition that the NHL has given a bunch of "concessions" since the cancellation. That is NOT the case.

Although you continually use the $42.5 number allegedly with no floor (which is unsubstantiated) from the last offer, you go back to much earlier offers to refer to the 75% QO's, etc. The facts are this: in the $42.5 offer, they were working from the deal points as published by the NHLPA. If you look at said deal points, they are essentially where we are now on those issues.

So I respectfully ask that you refrain from publishing your falsehoods in respect of the offers. I know your grade ten studies are undoubtedly distracting you as finals approach, but c'mon.

 

[Boltsfan2029]

What do you mean changed their stance ??

My guess is it has to do with "We will never, ever, discuss any proposal that contains a cap."

 

[GSC2k2*]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gscarpenter2002


So your point all along as "Well, they elected him, duh ...". Perhaps next post you can garner some attention with some perceptiveness.

bash away - you say your hockey fans - why was linden elected? - why do you think? -

Well, you're 0-for-1 ...

 

[mr gib]

Well, you're 0-for-1 ...

why do think trevor linden was elected president of the pa?

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

why do think trevor linden was elected president of the pa?

why do you think george w. bush was elected president of the united states?

 

[GSC2k2*]

My guess is it has to do with "We will never, ever, discuss any proposal that contains a cap."

You did in 19 words what it took me several paragraphs to say ...

Well done.

 

[mr gib]

why do you think george w. bush was elected president of the united states?

i'm kinda serious here - the earlier post asked the question - i'd like to hear what the anti- player's think the answer is -

 

[Mess]

My guess is it has to do with "We will never, ever, discuss any proposal that contains a cap."

That is all a part of the CBA bargaining process .. That was an earlier position taken and as the battle evolves so does the strategy on both sides .

You have also seen the NHL say we need cost certainty and then offer the players a $42.5 mil FINAL OFFER without linkage. The most important thing the OWNERS have told us they need going into the lockout and then backed off it.

Was Bettman lying to all us fans by that position ??

That is the same as your claim above but from the other side. Those viewing the situation as impartial could easily recognize that as well ..

The NHL said we will open the next season on time and go with replacements to scare the NHLPA and then backed off that position and said the lockout will continue into next season, virtually completely backing off replacement players after the last BOG meeting ..

So leverage changes and as events occur like the ESPN deal then both sides re-evaluate their decisions and plot a new course of action ..

Nothing is written in stone that you must pick a position from day 1 and never change from that.

 

[Montrealer]

i'm kinda serious here - the earlier post asked the question - i'd like to hear what the anti- player's think the answer is -

Being anti-player or anti-owner is anti-logical to me.

 

[GSC2k2*]

why do think trevor linden was elected president of the pa?

The point of the original post was "certainly not for his credentials, since he has none". I would agree. As for why he was, may i suggest that you just google to find it out?

Or perhaps you can check Massager's butt, since there seems to be an endless supply of "facts" that are pulled oout of that on a daily basis.

 

[mr gib]

The point of the original post was "certainly not for his credentials, since he has none". I would agree. As for why he was, may i suggest that you just google to find it out?

Or perhaps you can check Massager's butt, since there seems to be an endless supply of "facts" that are pulled oout of that on a daily basis.

how bout just answering the question?

 

[Boltsfan2029]

You did in 19 words what it took me several paragraphs to say ...

Well done.

Hey, I may be one of those ignorant, small, non-traditional market team fans, but I have my moments!

 

[Boltsfan2029]

Nothing is written in stone that you must pick a position from day 1 and never change from that.

Certainly not, but you're the one who asked what was meant by "changing their stance." I just answered your question -- if you already knew, why did you ask?

 

[Cawz]

why do think trevor linden was elected president of the pa?

Why do YOU think he was elected? (or does anyone here know)? Did he actually run against someone?

I'm the president of my condo association, but I wasnt elected because I'm the smartest or most educated or most well spoken. Its because no-one else wanted to do it. I have a feeling Linden's position is the same.

 

[GSC2k2*]

how bout just answering the question?

Here is my answer:

Since I am not a PA member, and since Mr. Linden has no obvious credentials (which is BEYOND question), I have no idea why. Perhaps he has a winning smile. Perhaps because he baked cupcakes for every PA member as part of his election platform. Perhaps because his jetski broke down one summer and he had some time to kill. Perhaps because he is a megalomaniac who is drunk for power. Perhaps because his parents did not show him enough love and he has taken on an authority position to compensate and finally earn mommy's and daddy's respect.

Perhaps all of the above.

More importantly, who knows? Who cares? The original validly stated point was "should the players not have people from amongst the numbers in charge who know about this stuff"?

Now that i have answered your question, prhaps you can do the following:

1. answer my question set out above;

2. apologize to the people whose time you wasted googling.

 

[ladybugblue]

We knew he was elected, doofus, we were wondering why he was elected.

maybe he was the only guy willing to be nominated ? maybe the guys with he education, cant be bothered with the politics involved ?

its quite conceivable that many of the brothers have no intrest in the effort or distraction that comes with being on the executive, never mind the president.

dr

I think the reason he was elected is that he is well respected by the players and has a level head and could brocure a deal with the NHL. I think he was a good choice if I was a player but I do agree with other posters that the lack of education would make it more difficult for the players to understand all of the details of the CBA and they would have to rely more heavily on Saskin and Goodenow to help with this process. I am sure if Linden knew what he knows now he may not have wanted this job as it is thankless and very complicated. That said the players need to understand this process more thoroughly as it impacts them directly and they are at a disadvantage in terms of education.

I am in favor of a major adjustment and a salary cap and this is what is needed for the best of all NHL teams and their fans. However, I would never bash players for their lack of education but they do need to take a strong interest and learn as much as they could so they would not be embarassed. As an example, the fact that the NHLPA agree to a salary cap after years of denying that it was coming was a major blow especially given they didn't even come to an agreement. I am sure many of the players would get rid of Goodenow for this embarassment alone. Education isn't everything but not get knowledge about what effects them (especially the details) and not depending on others is really important. I actually feel bad for the players especially after the season was cancelled as they then realized how complicated everything was and they weren't as well informed as possible.

 

[mackdogs*]

how bout just answering the question?

Why don't you tell us what you know about it?
Are you a fisherman? If not, why do you keep baiting people here. It's against the rules. Kinda like threadjacking, which you are also doing. How about you articulate your position and hope it leads to meaningful discussion. Or better yet, create a new thread to hold your arguments in. You have no relevance to this thread.