Confirmed with Link: McDonagh + Miller to Tampa Bay for Namestnikov + Howden + Hajek + 2018 1st + conditional 2019 1st

[Hunter Gathers]

Why he was such a sought-after prospect. Very gifable.

If Hajek becomes merely 1/4 as gifable, the trade is a win.

 

[Ori]

If Hajek becomes merely 1/4 as gifable, the trade is a win.

If, if, if, we will see @Hunter Gathers already next season - otherwise the whole rebuild project is delayed with years when we are going to compete next time.

 

[haohmaru]

Miller @ 50 points now.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Miller @ 50 points now.

Just proves that he is the product of his linemates

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Just proves that he is the product of his linemates

He was on that pace here as well.

 

[Blais to Win]

Hasn't he basically always been a 50 point player in NY?

 

[JohnC]

A player that was producing on a bad team continues to produce on the best team in the league. I am only slightly surprised by this revelation.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He was on that pace here as well.

PPG in Tampa. That's because of his linemates

 

[VoluntaryDom]

PPG in Tampa. That's because of his linemates

Nope

When he was with Johnson and Erne that was our best line. When he was with Point and gourde that was our best line. Now that he's with Stamkos and Kucherov that's our best line. Miller is great. I love him.

 

[RGY]

Nope

When he was with Johnson and Erne that was our best line. When he was with Point and gourde that was our best line. Now that he's with Stamkos and Kucherov that's our best line. Miller is great. I love him.

Oh you just wait until he gets into of his moods, disappears, and starts making egregious turnovers with the pucks. Probably has already happened but luckily he plays with a much better group of players that it gets covered up.

Miller is not the messiah and he certainly isnt making every one of your lines the best when he is on it.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Oh you just wait until he gets into of his moods, disappears, and starts making egregious turnovers with the pucks. Probably has already happened but luckily he plays with a much better group of players that it gets covered up.

Miller is not the messiah and he certainly isnt making every one of your lines the best when he is on it.

I think it's just that losing gets to his head. I don't think he will get into these moods when he's on a winning team.

 

[RGY]

I think it's just that losing gets to his head. I don't think he will get into these moods when he's on a winning team.

He was on winning teams his whole career until this one. He never showed up in the playoffs.

 

[Kaapodonna]

He was on winning teams his whole career until this one. He never showed up in the playoffs.

That doesn't mean he can't or wont. Different situation, different team.

 

[Siddi]

Nope

When he was with Johnson and Erne that was our best line. When he was with Point and gourde that was our best line. Now that he's with Stamkos and Kucherov that's our best line. Miller is great. I love him.

As you should. Before the trade, Miller had 42 points playing 3rd line minutes on the Rangers compared to Namestnikovs 45 points.

You guys most definetly got the better player out of that deal.

 

[Hire Sather]

I think it's just that losing gets to his head. I don't think he will get into these moods when he's on a winning team.

What makes you dig through a trade thread on another board?

You start a post with 'nope' you're here to rub in and troll.

 

[NYR Viper]

Miller is going to ask for the moon. He was drafted to be a prototypical 2-way power forward. Perhaps he reaches that ceiling but from what I saw I remain skeptical. His mistakes with the puck were pretty bad.

There's more to this deal than just the players, it's the contracts. Miller may ask for $5.5m on a long term deal. How many here would like to have JT Miller on the team for $5.5m? He doesn't drive an offense or a line.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Miller is going to ask for the moon. He was drafted to be a prototypical 2-way power forward. Perhaps he reaches that ceiling but from what I saw I remain skeptical. His mistakes with the puck were pretty bad.

There's more to this deal than just the players, it's the contracts. Miller may ask for $5.5m on a long term deal. How many here would like to have JT Miller on the team for $5.5m? He doesn't drive an offense or a line.

That's about the going UFA rate for 50+ point players. And at 25 Miller can be that for a while.

The Bolts are going to give Miller $5.5M (maybe only $5M w tax effect) to score 65 points on with their loaded offense and be heralded as having found some bargain. Meanwhile the NYR will pay Namestnikov $3.5-4M based on his TB production to score 35-40ish points.

 

[NYR Viper]

That's about the going UFA rate for 50+ point players. And at 25 Miller can be that for a while.

The Bolts are going to give Miller $5.5M (maybe only $5M w tax effect) to score 65 points on with their loaded offense and be heralded as having found some bargain. Meanwhile the NYR will pay Namestnikov $3.5-4M based on his TB production to score 35-40ish points.

Miller is a good complimentary player. He's not a driver. I'd pass on giving him that contract.

I'd also gladly give Namestnikov a long term deal in the $3.5m range. I think that's a steal. I also think that is about what he gets. His versatility of playing both center and wing and his 2-way ability far exceed that of Miller. Will he score more than Miller does playing in TB? Nope. But as the young kids graduate I have a feeling the team will need more guys like Fast and Namestnkov than they need Miller's.

 

[Edge]

Even if the deal works out for both teams, the outcome is going to be about more than the stat line.

It's going to be about role, deployment, etc.

For example, if Miller puts up 10 more points a season, but Namestnikov is a guy the Rangers can trust in more situations, that has to be taken into consideration.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

For example, if Miller puts up 10 more points a season, but Namestnikov is a guy the Rangers can trust in more situations, that has to be taken into consideration.

I mean, the #1 team in the conference is trusting him to play on their top line, PP, and as of last night even on the PK.

Even if VN is better defensively and at center, what is that worth? You can find 35-40 pt 2-way Cs for minimal cost every year via trade and UFA. At minimum, if you are moving on from Miller you absolutely should be able to come away with more than that.

Personally I don't see how the Miller-Namestnikov swap is remotely defensible. Even if you buy the character assassination spin, you have to read it as a long-developed byproduct of an obvious strained relationship with the coach. A byproduct of being held to a higher standard for some nebulous reason. No one was questioning Miller's character when he was laying his WJC medal in his Grandfather's casket.

 

[LeetchisGod]

I mean, the #1 team in the conference is trusting him to play on their top line, PP, and as of last night even on the PK.

Even if VN is better defensively and at center, what is that worth? You can find 35-40 pt 2-way Cs for minimal cost every year via trade and UFA. At minimum, if you are moving on from Miller you absolutely should be able to come away with more than that.

Personally I don't see how the Miller-Namestnikov swap is remotely defensible. Even if you buy the character assassination spin, you have to read it as a long-developed byproduct of an obvious strained relationship with the coach. A byproduct of being held to a higher standard for some nebulous reason. No one was questioning Miller's character when he was laying his WJC medal in his Grandfather's casket.

This is my problem with the trade. The Wings got a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder for Tatar. I would have preferred that kind of return over Namestnikov.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

This is my problem with the trade. The Wings got a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder for Tatar. I would have preferred that kind of return over Namestnikov.

Tatar has term and Vegas panicked when the Karlsson deal fell through and overpaid

 

[Edge]

I mean, the #1 team in the conference is trusting him to play on their top line, PP, and as of last night even on the PK.

Even if VN is better defensively and at center, what is that worth? You can find 35-40 pt 2-way Cs for minimal cost every year via trade and UFA. At minimum, if you are moving on from Miller you absolutely should be able to come away with more than that.

Personally I don't see how the Miller-Namestnikov swap is remotely defensible. Even if you buy the character assassination spin, you have to read it as a long-developed byproduct of an obvious strained relationship with the coach. A byproduct of being held to a higher standard for some nebulous reason. No one was questioning Miller's character when he was laying his WJC medal in his Grandfather's casket.

Personally, I would not have made the trade.

But I am also willing to give it time to see how it shapes up.

 

[NYR Viper]

I mean, the #1 team in the conference is trusting him to play on their top line, PP, and as of last night even on the PK.

Even if VN is better defensively and at center, what is that worth? You can find 35-40 pt 2-way Cs for minimal cost every year via trade and UFA. At minimum, if you are moving on from Miller you absolutely should be able to come away with more than that.

Personally I don't see how the Miller-Namestnikov swap is remotely defensible. Even if you buy the character assassination spin, you have to read it as a long-developed byproduct of an obvious strained relationship with the coach. A byproduct of being held to a higher standard for some nebulous reason. No one was questioning Miller's character when he was laying his WJC medal in his Grandfather's casket.

Is it easy to find a 40 point 2-way center?

let's look around the league at the guys either recently traded, soon to be UFA's or recently signed in that range:

Derrick Brassard
$5m cap hit for this year and next
43p in 63 games
I wouldn't exactly classify him as a great 2-way player, more of an offensive guy
PIT 1st '18 + PIT 3rd '18 + Gustavsson + Cole
Pens get just over a year of Brassard with some $$ retained

Martin Hanzal
$4.75m cap hit for 3 years
10p in 38gp
Traded for MIN 1st '17 + MIN 2nd '18 for Hanzal and White as pure rentals
He has major injury history and still got a nice 3-year deal from Dallas

Nick Bonino
$4.1m cap hit for 4 years
22p in 61gp
signed as UFA

David Backes
$6m cap hit for 4 more years (signed for 5)
28p in 50gp
signed as UFA

Tyler Bozak
$4.2m cap hit
UFA at years end - Looking at this list, he is going to get ~$5m per season from someone)
38p in 72gp

Michael Backlund
$5.35m cap hit for 6 years, contract starts next year
41p in 74gp


These are guys just off the top of my head. Sure you can find these 3C's but they are VERY expensive it would seem both in terms of trade value or UFA dollars.

 

[haveandare]

I mean, the #1 team in the conference is trusting him to play on their top line, PP, and as of last night even on the PK.

Even if VN is better defensively and at center, what is that worth? You can find 35-40 pt 2-way Cs for minimal cost every year via trade and UFA. At minimum, if you are moving on from Miller you absolutely should be able to come away with more than that.

Personally I don't see how the Miller-Namestnikov swap is remotely defensible. Even if you buy the character assassination spin, you have to read it as a long-developed byproduct of an obvious strained relationship with the coach. A byproduct of being held to a higher standard for some nebulous reason. No one was questioning Miller's character when he was laying his WJC medal in his Grandfather's casket.

Not saying I love that part of the trade, but a few issues with this.

First, one doesn't need to be excellent to be "trusted" to play with Stamkos and Kucherov. TB "trusted" Dotchin to play with Hedman too, it doesn't mean he's a great player, it means they realize you can pair a wide range of players with other elite players because those elite players will be able to work well with almost anyone. PK is an issue of trust though for sure.

Secondly, the "character assassination spin" is overblown imo. There have long been reports that he had character issues, this isn't a new thing. And Brooks specifically said they felt he had issues beyond AV, which would make sense in the context of the trade as it really doesn't sound like AV will even be back next year and Gorton isn't stupid enough to move and otherwise solid player because a coach he doesn't plan on keeping doesn't get along with him. It's just an observable fact that Miller was in a contract year and rather than stepping up and removing any doubt of whether he deserves to be extended, like I'd argue Hayes has done, he took a ton of games off and played mindless hockey half the season.

Again, having said that, yeah it's a bit of a head scratcher. I do think Vlad is a solid player and if we keep him I suspect he'll help the new forwards a lot as they come in, as he's kind of a more talented Fast and does the little things for his linemates, making their lives easier and helping them focus on skill play. I do think we probably could have gotten more for Miller though.