McDavid is 3rd in points while Edmonton is 28th in NHL

[CornKicker]

posting in this thread so I can come back when the oilers are sneaking into the playoffs after MERKING the west.

 

[glovesave_35]

Does it have to be a 5 year span? Is that the standard? From 2008-10, it was a well known and agreed upon thing that Ovechkin was the best player in the world. His suspension in 2010 costs him more hardware, including a third straight Hart. But from 2012 on, Crosby hit his stride big time, but it was cut short due to injuries. All while Ovechkin maintained his top goal scoring form for a few years. Crosby has definitely maintained a higher level and better all around play than Ovechkin during the last few years, but before that, it was Ovechkin.

Building around a player and being the best player in the league can be different. Crosby did win a cup within that time span with a finals appearance before that, but that doesn't mean he was better than a Ovechkin during those 3 years.

It was the time frame I was disputing in the post I quoted.

In any case, I do not agree that there was a general consensus that Ovechkin was "the better player" or anything like that for longer than a couple seasons in a row. I don't really feel like going back again and comparing that stats and awards. I looked yesterday to remind myself and I'm basing my response to a previous claim on my memory of those early years after the big lockout. Even when Ovechkin was racking up the goals like crazy there were tons of people who still preferred Crosby to Ovechkin.

 

[glovesave_35]

That's what I mean by knowing what we know now.

Was there ever a time where you would take OV over Crosby as your team's centerpiece without thinking about it? While OV was putting up big numbers during those 3 years, Crosby was never far behind, showed his versatility as an all around offensive force, and was dominating in the playoffs including two SCFs appearances. Add to that the Golden Goal.

After their 1st five years, I think both had Top 5 to Top 10 best starts to their careers in NHL history.

Nope. And that's a pretty big deal.

 

[GreatGonzo]

It was the time frame I was disputing in the post I quoted.

In any case, I do not agree that there was a general consensus that Ovechkin was "the better player" or anything like that for longer than a couple seasons in a row. I don't really feel like going back again and comparing that stats and awards. I looked yesterday to remind myself and I'm basing my response to a previous claim on my memory of those early years after the big lockout. Even when Ovechkin was racking up the goals like crazy there were tons of people who still preferred Crosby to Ovechkin.

I agree. I feel many preferred Crosby over Ovechkin simply because Crosby won a cup while Ovechkin wasn't making it past the 2nd round.

I mean, Ovechkins one year that hurts him from 2006-2010 was his sophomore "slump" year. It was a terrible year but for a player of his caliber, it was a down season. But he rebounded with 3 incredible seasons. One thing that stands out to me are his three consecutive Pearsons.

 

[Menzinger]

If Chia wastes McDavids prime years he deserves to be shunned by the hockey community

 

[glovesave_35]

I agree. I feel many preferred Crosby over Ovechkin simply because Crosby won a cup while Ovechkin wasn't making it past the 2nd round.

I mean, Ovechkins one year that hurts him from 2006-2010 was his sophomore "slump" year. It was a terrible year but for a player of his caliber, it was a down season. But he rebounded with 3 incredible seasons. One thing that stands out to me are his three consecutive Pearsons.

I don't think it's even quite fair to say people preferred Crosby over Ovechkin because Crosby won a Cup. Before he won the Cup he went to the finals and lost, but he was a dominant force. He also played the more sought after and highly regarded position. I know it's almost become an HF board meme to joke about a player being better because he's a center, but there are and were huge differences in the type of game both of these HOF'ers played. A lot of people thought Crosby was better, would rather build around him, etc. because he became a dominant two-way center in short order. And that those types of players are more likely to deliver team hardware.

It isn't fair to put all of the Caps' failures on Ovechkin by any stretch. And Crosby absolutely has had a better supporting cast than OV has had. I will often play the role of Ovechkin defender when people slam his lack of a Cup as if he's some massive failure. Ovechkin was an animal in his prime years in the playoffs. I do think he did all he could do at that time.

FWIW, whoever it was I originally quoted said that Ovechkin "dominated Crosby in goals, points, pace, and trophies in their first 5 seasons". I ran the numbers and the difference in points/pace is as follows: Crosby 506/371 games and Ovechkin 529/396. Total points are relatively close with the edge to Ovechkin and Crosby had the better pace. Anyways, the edge in personal hardware and accomplishments obviously goes to Ovechkin.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Its entertaining to say the least... i cant get enough of the oilers season.

 

[Lotusflower]

McDavid good. Oilers bad (to average). This should surprise no one. Y'all were ready to crown Klefbom as an elite D last year.

 

[Hint1k]

Because bashing the oilers is allowed

This topic is not for "bashing Oilers". But yeah, people brought it here anyway. Downside of freedom of speech you know.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I will say its goaltending. A .900 sv % rarely makes the playooffs.

If you combine the SV% of their starter and their backup they are actually under .900.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I don't think it's even quite fair to say people preferred Crosby over Ovechkin because Crosby won a Cup. Before he won the Cup he went to the finals and lost, but he was a dominant force. He also played the more sought after and highly regarded position. I know it's almost become an HF board meme to joke about a player being better because he's a center, but there are and were huge differences in the type of game both of these HOF'ers played. A lot of people thought Crosby was better, would rather build around him, etc. because he became a dominant two-way center in short order. And that those types of players are more likely to deliver team hardware.

It isn't fair to put all of the Caps' failures on Ovechkin by any stretch. And Crosby absolutely has had a better supporting cast than OV has had. I will often play the role of Ovechkin defender when people slam his lack of a Cup as if he's some massive failure. Ovechkin was an animal in his prime years in the playoffs. I do think he did all he could do at that time.

FWIW, whoever it was I originally quoted said that Ovechkin "dominated Crosby in goals, points, pace, and trophies in their first 5 seasons". I ran the numbers and the difference in points/pace is as follows: Crosby 506/371 games and Ovechkin 529/396. Total points are relatively close with the edge to Ovechkin and Crosby had the better pace. Anyways, the edge in personal hardware and accomplishments obviously goes to Ovechkin.

I agree, but Crosby hadn't started rounding out his game yet. That has only been the last few years. During Ovis peak, Crosby was better defensively, but wasn't that great. But him being a center did convince a lot of people that he would be the better choice. I just feel his Cup win validated that for a lot of people.

Absolutely. I mean between those 3 years, 40 points in 28 games with 20 goals. What more do you want from your star player.

 

[Bladerunner]

It was the time frame I was disputing in the post I quoted.

In any case, I do not agree that there was a general consensus that Ovechkin was "the better player" or anything like that for longer than a couple seasons in a row. I don't really feel like going back again and comparing that stats and awards. I looked yesterday to remind myself and I'm basing my response to a previous claim on my memory of those early years after the big lockout. Even when Ovechkin was racking up the goals like crazy there were tons of people who still preferred Crosby to Ovechkin.

Dispute "tons more" but yes many preferred Crosby over Ovi when the later was the supreme power forward in the game.
However there are tons more Canadians in the NHL establishment, media, and fandom in NA than Ovi's nationality.

Not easy to measure how much of a role that plays, but don't act like it's not a factor.

 

[Mats13]

One of the best things that's ever happened to Pittsburgh was losing the draft lottery 2004 ..

Play the victim card for Ovechkin if you want but 12 failed seasons with a team loaded with talent for at least the last 9 seasons ... Give the talent surrounding Ovechkin to McDavid and he at least gets his team past the 2nd rd

I feel bad for people like you.

So consumed by the idea of team accomplishments and Cups that you can't see greatness when it's right in front of you.

If you can't appreciate what is arguably the greatest goal scorer of all time because his TEAM couldn't win a Cup, you're beyond saving.

Prime Ovechkin could skate around you or through you. He regularly displayed skills no one else could and here you are saying a team was lucky to not get him

A team with Ovechkin and Crosby would have owned the league for a decade.

 

[justafan22]

Only peter chiarelli could make a team with Mcdavid on it this bad.

 

[mouz135]

posting in this thread so I can come back when the oilers are sneaking into the playoffs after MERKING the west.

Must be nice in that fantasty land of yours

 

[ManofSteel55]

Only peter chiarelli could make a team with Mcdavid on it this bad.

I'd blame coaching and player effort more than Chiarelli. The players are fine for the roles assigned to them aside from top line RW, but our special teams have been awful, and we had a few key players with slow starts (Klefbom, Draisaitl - injury, Talbot). McLellan looks to have adjusted things and the team as a whole is playing hard night in and night out. The team we've iced the last two weeks has looked like a different team. We'll see if it continues or not.

 

[Habs10025]

I feel bad for people like you.

So consumed by the idea of team accomplishments and Cups that you can't see greatness when it's right in front of you.

If you can't appreciate what is arguably the greatest goal scorer of all time because his TEAM couldn't win a Cup, you're beyond saving.

Prime Ovechkin could skate around you or through you. He regularly displayed skills no one else could and here you are saying a team was lucky to not get him

A team with Ovechkin and Crosby would have owned the league for a decade.

Better than what Crosby and Malkin have done together that's doubtful and yes winning the Stanley Cup is the ultimate goal for every player or should be ...

You say Crosby and Ovechkin would have owned the league playing together for a decade odds are they never would have played together.

In 2004 if Pittsburgh had won the lottery and pick Ovechkin 1st and Washington picked Malkin 2nd the 2005 draft lottery wasn't based on the previous season standings because of the lockout but was an open lottery to all teams but weighted on chances to win by where they drafted in 2004.

The odds of Pittsburgh winning the 2005 lottery would not have been as good and another team like Anaheim might have picked 1st drafting Crosby and Pittsburgh drafting Bobby Ryan 2nd overall .

Pittsburgh fans are very lucky the 2004 draft went the way it did getting Malkin and they were just as lucky to win the 2005 draft lottery to draft Crosby .

Crosby, Malkin together have led the Pittsburgh Penguins to multiple Conference Finals , Stanley Cup Finals , Winning both multiple times Crosby ,Malkin are one of the best duos this league has ever seen .

Why would any Penguin fan or anyone associated with the Pittsburgh Penguins want things any different when Crosby ,Malkin have led them to greatness.

 

[dubey]

posting in this thread so I can come back when the oilers are sneaking into the playoffs after MERKING the west.

The thread will be archived/locked/deleted before that ever happens

 

[Fixxer]

Reminds me of Sakic in Québec, the year he had 100 + points and the Nordiques were dead last. Still, there's lots of hockey to be played and the Oilers aren't doing as bad as the Nords were in 89/90...

 

[tempest2i]

I suspect the 0.700 Sv% the Oilers have while killing penalties at home probably has a lot to do with where they are in the standings.

 

[Soundwave]

It does kinda actually to me show he probably is the best player in the world. Every other guy in the top 10 is probably falling over themselves at how great their season is going and every star is aligning for them.

McDavid meanwhile has had little to nothing go right for him this year, team is overall playing poorly, he has been plagued by diaherra and flu that's caused him to lose like 10+ pounds, lol, still on the exact same scoring pace basically as last year and tied for 3 in the league for scoring.

 

[Coffey]

I suspect the 0.700 Sv% the Oilers have while killing penalties at home probably has a lot to do with where they are in the standings.

Yepp... Getting a penalty usually means going down a goal. It's terrible.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

The Oilers will be just fine. I suggest you check out the numerous discussions on the Oilers board for more info.

As a side note, its interesting how Oiler bash threads are allowed to stay but the Leaf ones are instantaneously closed before the 1st page is out.

 

[glovesave_35]

Dispute "tons more" but yes many preferred Crosby over Ovi when the later was the supreme power forward in the game.
However there are tons more Canadians in the NHL establishment, media, and fandom in NA than Ovi's nationality.

Not easy to measure how much of a role that plays, but don't act like it's not a factor.

Eesh. Everybody in the media absolutely loved Ovechkin except for a couple of knobs who thought he was too exuberant. I don't see the Russia v Canada thing in this case being relevant.

 

[Kyndig]

Thought it was a thread to give credit to McDavid but I was somehow tricked...anyways.

It's impressive what McDavid has done with what hes had to work with, hes on pace for another 100 point season playing on a bad team.