Player Discussion Max Pacioretty - Part 4

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

He clearly made the team worse. Best roster since 2013 and our goal scoring withers up.

Because neither of our "30 goal scorers" scored even a single goal. I get why it's fun to spin our #1 defenseman outscoring our two most prolific scoring forwards combined the other way though...

 

[Runner77]

Ottawa Senators praising Karlsson as a captain. Who's our captain again???

Chair Deck Patio or something like that

 

[bleuetbio]

It tooks me only 8 post to be bored about this topic.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Because neither of our "30 goal scorers" scored even a single goal. I get why it's fun to spin our #1 defenseman outscoring our two most prolific scoring forwards combined the other way though...

Yeah and a more productive, more mobile, more offensively skilled #1 d-man would've made more plays and opened up better lanes for these guys to shoot from good angles and squeeze pucks in.

I know this because I know how Subban plays and how Weber plays and I know that Subban is more productive than Weber.

How else do you want to try to spin this yarn?

We lost in the most predictable way: lack of goals. I thought Weber was suppose to help with that?

We lost because we didn't have enough character to come back from ONE goal down. I thought Weber was supposed to help with that?

He did a fine job, exceeded my standards, but he didn't make the players around him better. Subban does.

And the topic of the thread is Pacioretty - someone who could've used the help Subban brings on the regular.

 

[PaulD]

I was saying years ago he should be traded for 2 excellent younger forwards. This guy is a waste of time.

Guy Lafleur said it years ago. Got blasted for it.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Guy Lafleur said it years ago. Got blasted for it.

Guy Lafleur backed up Pacioretty lately. He's a nice guy but not the brightest bulb... I would not use his words to back up any opinion. Chances are he said the opposite 5 minutes later. But he was right then, Pacioretty is awful.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Yeah and a more productive, more mobile, more offensively skilled #1 d-man would've made more plays and opened up better lanes for these guys to shoot from good angles and squeeze pucks in.

Didn't last year. Hasn't this year. But by all means, let your dreams be memes.

 

[PaulD]

Yeah and a more productive, more mobile, more offensively skilled #1 d-man would've made more plays and opened up better lanes for these guys to shoot from good angles and squeeze pucks in.

I know this because I know how Subban plays and how Weber plays and I know that Subban is more productive than Weber.

How else do you want to try to spin this yarn?

We lost in the most predictable way: lack of goals. I thought Weber was suppose to help with that?

We lost because we didn't have enough character to come back from ONE goal down. I thought Weber was supposed to help with that?

He did a fine job, exceeded my standards, but he didn't make the players around him better. Subban does.

And the topic of the thread is Pacioretty - someone who could've used the help Subban brings on the regular.

Habs have been eliminated the same way for years. Subban was there for all but this one.

 

[azcanuck]

Generating goals, as in point production, as in Subban's superior point production to Weber throughout his career, playoff career, and every season since his freshman season.

Playoff game winning goals? Really digging deep for those numbers eh?

Subban is better at offense than Weber, that's what I'm stating. And there really wasn't any way for Price to play any better than 1.88 and 0.933 so I really do think that Subban's better point production would've been the difference maker for a team that is impotent on offense despite having Mr Weber on their blue line.


He clearly made the team worse. Best roster since 2013 and our goal scoring withers up.

I don't get the hate for Weber. He is super solid in his zone and played well offensively . He hit the post three times I believe and teams blanket him on the power play. It should open it up for guys like Max and Galchenyuk.

This team did not win with the hot dog Subban and it didn't win on the first try with Weber. I would still take Weber over Subban.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I don't get the hate for Weber. He is super solid in his zone and played well offensively . He hit the post three times I believe and teams blanket him on the power play. It should open it up for guys like Max and Galchenyuk.

This team did not win with the hot dog Subban and it didn't win on the first try with Weber. I would still take Weber over Subban.

This guy gets it.

 

[PaulD]

Guy Lafleur backed up Pacioretty lately. He's a nice guy but not the brightest bulb... I would not use his words to back up any opinion. Chances are he said the opposite 5 minutes later. But he was right then, Pacioretty is awful.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Didn't last year. Hasn't this year. But by all means, let your dreams be memes.

Last year he had a 60 point pace on a garbage team that tuned out their coach and in front of the worst goalies in the league.

Weber scored 40 points this year. Subban wasn't a Hab this year, so it's not comparable but if I'm not mistaken he had a superior PPG this year as well.

We'll see if he can eclipse Weber's point totals in the playoffs this year - yknow, after shutting down the Blackhawks top players and being part of a 4-man wrecking crew that swept the the incumbent dynasty of the NHL

Habs have been eliminated the same way for years. Subban was there for all but this one.

Not every player is a problem. Price isn't a problem and neither was Subban - it was clear to see and remains so.

I don't get the hate for Weber. He is super solid in his zone and played well offensively . He hit the post three times I believe and teams blanket him on the power play. It should open it up for guys like Max and Galchenyuk.

This team did not win with the hot dog Subban and it didn't win on the first try with Weber. I would still take Weber over Subban.

Yeah he had as good a postseason as can be expected. But he didn't help the forwards score more goals. Subban would have - and it's a fact because Subban had/has/will have a higher playoff (and regular season) PPG than Weber, meaning that Subban generates more goals scored. In a series where we lost by literally one goal, Subban would've made the difference. 100%.

 

[Mike8]

I don't see the point in comparing Subban and Weber. As far as I'm concerned, I'd have liked to have had both, and I don't think it's too far-fetched an idea to think that was a possibility.

With Markov nearing retirement, Weber brings a stabilizing presence -- a much different presence than Markov's, but of similar effect. And Subban was an integral part of the core.

Would've been pretty nice to load up on D + Price.

As far as what Nashville would have wanted? Well, they've always been starved for offence. Pacioretty. Futures. Whatever. I think Nashville wanted out of that Weber contract.

 

[OldCraig71]

Guy Lafleur said it years ago. Got blasted for it.

Posters here will jump on Lafleur for his off ice troubles since his retirement but he knew a thing or two about hockey and great teams, he was on enough of them.

 

[Whitesnake]

This guy gets it.

Of course it does. Especially when he comes up with the great hot-dog analysis.....That clearly was a sign of a big time analysis of a player...

 

[PaulD]

It tooks me only 8 post to be bored about this topic.

took me a few play off games

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

I don't see the point in comparing Subban and Weber. As far as I'm concerned, I'd have liked to have had both, and I don't think it's too far-fetched an idea to think that was a possibility.

With Markov nearing retirement, Weber brings a stabilizing presence -- a much different presence than Markov's, but of similar effect. And Subban was an integral part of the core.

Would've been pretty nice to load up on D + Price.

As far as what Nashville would have wanted? Well, they've always been starved for offence. Pacioretty. Futures. Whatever. I think Nashville wanted out of that Weber contract.

Weber's contract is a looming catastrophe.

This is the Pacioretty thread however so let's not get bogged down - I genuinely think Subban would've helped Pacioretty, and our team, immensely. Too late now.

Of course it does. Especially when he comes up with the great hot-dog analysis.....That clearly was a sign of a big time analysis of a player...

Anyone who agrees with me gets it, anyone who disagrees with me (and proves it, and supports their arguments) doesn't get it and I'll refuse to address their points.

- the HF Habs way.

 

[PaulD]

Posters here will jump on Lafleur for his off ice troubles since his retirement but he knew a thing or two about hockey and great teams, he was on enough of them.

When Guy he retired he was playing better than Max plays in his prime.

 

[PaulD]

Weber's contract is a looming catastrophe.

This is the Pacioretty thread however so let's not get bogged down - I genuinely think Subban would've helped Pacioretty, and our team, immensely. Too late now.

Anyone who agrees with me gets it, anyone who disagrees with me (and proves it, and supports their arguments) doesn't get it and I'll refuse to address their points.

- the HF Habs way.

lame

 

[Whitesnake]

Weber's contract is a looming catastrophe.

This is the Pacioretty thread however so let's not get bogged down - I genuinely think Subban would've helped Pacioretty, and our team, immensely. Too late now.

Anyone who agrees with me gets it, anyone who disagrees with me (and proves it, and supports their arguments) doesn't get it and I'll refuse to address their points.

- the HF Habs way.

I don't think you could make a generality of it but yeah, I know a few posters like that...I mean I'm fine with liking or disliking a player or another....but going with hot-dog as a basis of an analysis...my god, this is just plain dumb.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Of course it does. Especially when he comes up with the great hot-dog analysis.....That clearly was a sign of a big time analysis of a player...

He's exactly right though. NYR cheated to cover the defensemen so much that there were HUGE holes in the middle of the zone for our forwards to exploit while their defensemen guarded the net. If they had figured that out (or simply acted on it) sooner, things would have started to open back up occasionally at the point. It was noticeable in every single game, and I'm really not sure how you missed it. It's a travesty that or forwards couldn't find room to get open and get quality shots on all those powerplays with how focused NYR was at taking away the point. Capitalizing on just one or two of them could have reversed the fortunes of the series.

 

[Phil Parent]

Yeah. Wonder what he'd do with a legit first center that can feed him.

But then again, he had Danault all regular season and he did pretty good there.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

He's exactly right though. NYR cheated to cover the defensemen so much that there were HUGE holes in the middle of the zone for our forwards to exploit while their defensemen guarded the net. If they had figured that out (or simply acted on it) sooner, things would have started to open back up occasionally at the point. It was noticeable in every single game, and I'm really not sure how you missed it. It's a travesty that or forwards couldn't find room to get open and get quality shots on all those powerplays with how focused NYR was at taking away the point. Capitalizing on just one or two of them could have reversed the fortunes of the series.

Opposing teams did the exact same thing on Subban, and Streit, and MAB, and Souray before him. All had big shots, Weber happens to have the biggest shot of all. It didn't make up for the other deficiencies in his game offensively.

He had a good series though, as good as can be expected. But he's no Erik Karlsson out there - not as a leader or as a player.

 

[Mike8]

Weber's contract is a looming catastrophe.

This is the Pacioretty thread however so let's not get bogged down - I genuinely think Subban would've helped Pacioretty, and our team, immensely. Too late now.

I don't. They've played together a lot before and I haven't seen evidence of this.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Opposing teams did the exact same thing on Subban, and Streit, and MAB, and Souray before him. All had big shots, Weber happens to have the biggest shot of all. It didn't make up for the other deficiencies in his game offensively.

He had a good series though, as good as can be expected. But he's no Erik Karlsson out there - not as a leader or as a player.

Fun fact: Weber has a higher goals per game over his first 12 seasons than Karlsson has over his first 8.