Matthews vs Draisaitl: Better player to build around

[Canovin]

When was the last time a player won the Art Ross and finished as a minus?

When was the last time an 110 points Art Ross player with -7 worse than a 80 points player?

 

[MessierII]

Jeez, I wish Barrie was as good for us as you're making him out to be. Guy was terrible. Theres a reason we re-signed Muzzin over him.

Better offensive defenceman theyve ever played with? Klefbom had the same PPG as him this season.

So Klefboms most productive year in his career equaled the output of Barries worst season in how long? Great. Klefbom has never scored 40 points in his career. In fact Drai and Conor have only had one D man crack 40 points one season in their careers and only twice had more than one D man crack 30 points. Reilly had what? 70 points last year?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Does anyone know the difference in PP goals against and empty net goals against between the two players? +/- is largely a bad stat, but sometimes those factors can make a difference in the overall +/-

Matthews has better 5-on-5 goal differential and goal shares even relative to his teammates.

Would love to know where to "dive deeper". Only reliable site I have to back that stuff up is a pretty raw hockey reference. Although just from watching Matthews I know he is elite defensively.

Evolving Hockey or Natural Stat Trick although some of the stuff on Evolving Hockey is behind a paywall.

I disagree from watching Matthews that he’s elite defensively although I would say from watching Draisaitl he is atrocious defensively (which the numbers support) and Matthews was at least solid this year from what I saw.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Matthews has better 5-on-5 goal differential and goal shares even relative to his teammates.



Evolving Hockey or Natural Stat Trick although some of the stuff on Evolving Hockey is behind a paywall.

I disagree from watching Matthews that he’s elite defensively although I would say from watching Draisaitl he is atrocious defensively (which the numbers support) and Matthews was at least solid this year from what I saw.

Gotcha, thanks for the heads up.

 

[CatchyTune]

So Klefboms most productive year in his career equaled the output of Barries worst season in how long? Great. Klefbom has never scored 40 points in his career. In fact Drai and Conor have only had one D man crack 40 points one season in their careers and only twice had more than one D man crack 30 points. Reilly had what? 70 points last year?

Oh yeah, Rielly is another story. But you're talking about Barrie as if he was a stud for us. If you want him just sign him. Boom. Best offensive defenseman you've had in the Mcdavid era.

 

[CupofOil]

Not trying to take away from him. Just couldnt ignore it.

Draisaitl is also very weak defensively. Matthews easily has the upper hand there. Draisaitl managed to lead the league in points while still being a -7. That isnt a great stat but come on now.

He was a -7 because of one horrific month in which the team played awful and the goaltending was worse than awful. Plus most of those minuses came with McDavid so the McDavid factor actually hurt Draisaitl this season if anything. He was like a +15 or something like that in 2020 running his own line.
Not to mention that +/- is a flawed stat because it doesn't count PP goals for but it does count SH goals against and empty net goals against.

Also, his defensive weakness is being overstated because he tends to drift at times and makes some high risk passes that show up on the wrong end of the highlight package sometimes. He showed a lot of ability to defend in previous years, and had to because McDavid isn't good defensively either. There's a reason why he's been trusted on the PK and not McDavid yet nobody talks about McDavid's defensive shortcomings. He has definite defensive inconsistencies but he's not incapable.

 

[MessierII]

Does anyone know the difference in PP goals against and empty net goals against between the two players? +/- is largely a bad stat, but sometimes those factors can make a difference in the overall +/-

Well at even strength Matthews was on for 78 goals for and 52 against Leon was 80 goals for 74 against.

5 on 5 it was Matthews 62 GF 44 against
Drai 70 goals for 60 against.

Not exactly what you were looking for but some context.

 

[MessierII]

Oh yeah, Rielly is another story. But you're talking about Barrie as if he was a stud for us. If you want him just sign him. Boom. Best offensive defenseman you've had in the Mcdavid era.

Even Barrie as bad as he was this year would easily be our best offensive defensemen. No cap to sign him sadly. Hoping Bouchard can be that guy soon.

 

[CatchyTune]

Matthews has better 5-on-5 goal differential and goal shares even relative to his teammates.



Evolving Hockey or Natural Stat Trick although some of the stuff on Evolving Hockey is behind a paywall.

I disagree from watching Matthews that he’s elite defensively although I would say from watching Draisaitl he is atrocious defensively (which the numbers support) and Matthews was at least solid this year from what I saw.

Thanks. Ive tried evolving hockey but of course its paid. And i'm not paying real dollars to support my HFboards arguments lol.

 

[CatchyTune]

He was a -7 because of one horrific month in which the team played awful and the goaltending was worse than awful. Plus most of those minuses came with McDavid so the McDavid factor actually hurt Draisaitl this season if anything. He was like a +15 or something like that in 2020 running his own line.

Also, his defensive weakness is being overstated because he tends to drift at times and makes some high risk passes that show up on the wrong end of the highlight package sometimes. He showed a lot of ability to defend in previous years, and had to because McDavid isn't good defensively either. There's a reason why he's been trusted on the PK and not McDavid yet nobody talks about McDavid's defensive shortcomings. He has definite defensive inconsistencies but he's not incapable.

Ah, I see what you mean with those high risk passes. Draisaitl was 2nd in giveaways this season. Hope he finds his game eventually.

 

[PromisedLand]

Pretty pointless thread. Every Leafs fan will vote Matthews and everybody else will vote Draisaitl.

lol pretty much.

question: Is Leafs Nation greater in count compared to the total of the rest of the league?

 

[CupofOil]

Ah, I see what you mean with those high risk passes. Draisaitl was 2nd in giveaways this season. Hope he finds his game eventually.

lol

 

[PromisedLand]

I think they have pretty similar value moving forward, so I thought it would make for some good discussion.

My pick is Draisaitl, but I definitely had to think about it.

I think Matthews is probably going to remain the better defensive player, and seeing as he’s only 22, I could see him taking his game to another level over the next couple years.

I also think Matthews offensive tools are a little better than Draisaitl. I’d give the edge to him in terms of skating and hands. Both have ridiculous shots that are right near the top of the league.

Where I think Draisaitl separates himself from Matthews right now, is his vision in the offensive zone. Leon’s got a little Crosby in him, in terms of processing the game super-fast, and knowing where the holes are in the O-Zone. Draisaitl is also better at using his big frame to box out and create space for himself.

If we swap Matthews and Draisaitl; who do we think has better season? Matthews or Drai?

If it is still Drai; then Drai is clearly the guy; if it is Matthews then may be that McDavid guy has something to do with it

 

[LEAFSANDBILLSFAN]

Leafs fan saying Draisaitl. Until Matthew's, Marner, and Nylander learn how to play with same urgency as Draisaitl and ditch the shinny hockey escapades, the Leafs will continue to be a bottom playoff team in the East looking up at Boston and Tampa. It is actually quite frustrating to watch and it's even more frustrating seeing Leafs fans come on here and blindly defend them.

 

[CatchyTune]

lol

Good input. Hope you know I meant defensive game. Pretty much implied that.

 

[LTIR]

Leafs fan saying Draisaitl. .

What the hell freezing over is this?

 

[CatchyTune]

Leafs fan saying Draisaitl. Until Matthew's, Marner, and Nylander learn how to play with same urgency as Draisaitl and ditch the shinny hockey escapades, the Leafs will continue to be a bottom playoff team in the East looking up at Boston and Tampa. It is actually quite frustrating to watch and it's even more frustrating seeing Leafs fans come on here and blindly defend them.

You're letting your emotion from past losses cloud your vision. This is about Matthews. Not the leafs being behind Boston and Tampa in the standings.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Do you happen to know where to find graphs like these? I knew I saw this somewhere on twitter but couldnt find it. Shows Matthews is elite defensively, to much dismay of leaf haters.

the link I shared should lead you right to his Twitter account

 

[Varan]

I still said drai. I was just answering ur question. Also regardless of what drai could do his defensive metrics were god awful this year.

His defensive metrics are what they are due to his horrid December

 

[Varan]

Matthews. Doesnt need the best player in the league for a point boost.

are you voluntarily leaving out how his numbers went up after McDavid went down?

 

[PromisedLand]

I like Matthews and wouldn't trade him straight up, but I can't disagree with anyone preferring Draisaitl after showing he can produce away from McDavid.

QoC matters!

McDavid usually draws oppositions' top defensive pair same as Matthews.

Differnce is Drai played substantially better and tool full advantage of this opportunity than Tavares did.

 

[LTIR]

If we swap Matthews and Draisaitl; who do we think has better season? Matthews or Drai?

If it is still Drai; then Drai is clearly the guy; if it is Matthews then may be that McDavid guy has something to do with it

What of both have similar seasons?
If anything Drai would score more if on Toronto. Fighting JT for #1C icetime is easier than fighting McDavid.

Drai had to convert his game and had to become a scorer because of McD and Nuge. He really wouldn't have to be the trigger man in Toronto and play his natural game.

 

[Varan]

Wake me, when he wins a Selke.

considering one of those situations is most likely going to happen in a few weeks whereas the other will never happen, you don't have a leg here

 

[CatchyTune]

are you voluntarily leaving out how his numbers went up after McDavid went down?

That 5 game stretch everyone loves to talk about?

Follow along with the thread. Its more than that.

 

[CupofOil]

Good input. Hope you know I meant defensive game. Pretty much implied that.

Giveaways doesn't imply poor defense. It just shows that he has the puck a lot.
If you look at the leaderboard in giveaways, it's usually the offensive drivers that are leading it.

In any event, he had his defensive lapses especially this season (was better in past years) but he had the puck so darn much that it didn't really matter much. He was a dominant player 90% of this season, the other 10% was horrific though which brought those numbers down and again, when he ran his own line that line were one of the best in the league.