McKenzie: Matt Duchene: "Player Most Likely To Be Traded This Summer"

[StayAtHomeAv]

Where have I named a flat price for Duchene and insisted Avs fans meet it?

Where have I attacked other posters for not agreeing with me on a trade I proposed? Or whined about a trade I proposed?

You're just flat out making a lot of stuff up about me. People can go back and read what I said dude, this whole "actually you're the one refusing to compromise you hypocrite!" is just you projecting what you want me to say. I can't compromise because it's "Barzal++ or get lost", even when the Sergachev++ offer I've been told to beat isn't feasible anymore.

So exactly what am I refusing to compromise on? That Duchene might get a 75 cent return and not a 99 cent one? Maybe he does get a 99 cent return, this offseason or in the future, which I've said. It's just unlikely.

Nice spin.

 

[AMDZen]

From what I have noticed, the ROR return seems to be the hangup.

Most other avs fans consistently point that deal as proof that they can get absolutely every piece they covet.

Failing to see there are a variety of differences.

Actually it's the other fanbases that don't see there are a variety of differences.

Main differences are: RoR was a greedy person, Matt is not. Matt is a loyal guy too so any team who acquires him would have a great chance to sign him as long as he gets treated fairly, and for a decent price. This includes places like Car whose fanbase constantly acts like there is no chance he resigns, when his character shows exactly the opposite. Duchene has more time on his contract than RoR did, two years is quite a significant difference. Duchene is a better player with more upside in almost every respect.

These are all differences in Duchenes favor as it relates to his value. There is absolutely nothing, anywhere to indicate that his value isn't much higher than RoRs value and the return will be greater, period.

 

[Brendonhayden]

Berglund and 20th and 27th pick for duchene and their second round pic

 

[67 others]

Actually it's the other fanbases that don't see there are a variety of differences.

Main differences are: RoR was a greedy person, Matt is not. Matt is a loyal guy too so any team who acquires him would have a great chance to sign him as long as he gets treated fairly, and for a decent price. This includes places like Car whose fanbase constantly acts like there is no chance he resigns, when his character shows exactly the opposite. Duchene has more time on his contract than RoR did, two years is quite a significant difference. Duchene is a better player with more upside in almost every respect.

These are all differences in Duchenes favor as it relates to his value. There is absolutely nothing, anywhere to indicate that his value isn't much higher than RoRs value and the return will be greater, period.

Duchene is a better player with more upside? At this juncture, its a wash and neither will grow into much more than you have seen. They are both 26 years old. Duchene slightly better offensively, O'Reilly better defensively and in the faceoff circle.

Talking about their "upside" at this point is moot. You have seen the best they have to offer from 99% of forwards by age 24.

Duchene being a "Loyal" guy had everything to do with him being a die hard Avalanche fan growing up and probably dreaming of playing there till he retired after they drafted him. I suspect his recent slump has everything to do with his dreams being shattered as his childhood idol Sakic has made it pretty plain he is up for trade, his other childhood idol Roy gave him crap after celebrating scoring 30 goals for the first time and then quit(Which is not exactly normal for Head coaches).

what a cluster#&@*

From a Sharks perspective, they are about the equal of Logan Couture.

 

[returnofthemack29]

Duchene is a better player with more upside? At this juncture, its a wash and neither will grow into much more than you have seen. They are both 26 years old. Duchene slightly better offensively, O'Reilly better defensively and in the faceoff circle.

Talking about their "upside" at this point is moot. You have seen the best they have to offer from 99% of forwards by age 24.

Duchene being a "Loyal" guy had everything to do with him being a die hard Avalanche fan growing up and probably dreaming of playing there till he retired after they drafted him. I suspect his recent slump has everything to do with his dreams being shattered as his childhood idol Sakic has made it pretty plain he is up for trade, his other childhood idol Roy gave him crap after celebrating scoring 30 goals for the first time and then quit(Which is not exactly normal for Head coaches).

what a cluster#&@*

From a Sharks perspective, they are about the equal of Logan Couture.

Haha what? You know that Duchene led the league in faceoff percentage last year, right?

 

[AMDZen]

Duchene is a better player with more upside? At this juncture, its a wash and neither will grow into much more than you have seen. They are both 26 years old. Duchene slightly better offensively, O'Reilly better defensively and in the faceoff circle.

Talking about their "upside" at this point is moot. You have seen the best they have to offer from 99% of forwards by age 24.

Duchene being a "Loyal" guy had everything to do with him being a die hard Avalanche fan growing up and probably dreaming of playing there till he retired after they drafted him. I suspect his recent slump has everything to do with his dreams being shattered as his childhood idol Sakic has made it pretty plain he is up for trade, his other childhood idol Roy gave him crap after celebrating scoring 30 goals for the first time and then quit(Which is not exactly normal for Head coaches).

what a cluster#&@*

From a Sharks perspective, they are about the equal of Logan Couture.

Lol, see, it makes it so much easier when you point out the face off circle in the first paragraph because I just don't have to read the rest of your post after that.

 

[67 others]

Haha what? You know that Duchene led the league in faceoff percentage last year, right?

Sure. Until you factor in deployment and workload over the years.

ROR was second only to Bergeron in FOW and took literally 700+ more faceoffs last year than Duchene. He lead the league in Shorthanded Faceoff wins.

Duchene had a career year for FO%, but that's about all he had a career year in. His FO% is better than bergeron and kesler too, but I would want those two on the dot before him in a pinch.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Wasn't ROR coming off a career high in points before the trade? Duchene is at a career low.

The last season doesn't mean everything. But it does mean something.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Wasn't ROR coming off a career high in points before the trade? Duchene is at a career low.

The last season doesn't mean everything. But it does mean something.

GMs will have taken a close look at Duchene at IIHF. I didn't like what I saw. 1 point in 10 games!

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Wasn't ROR coming off a career high in points before the trade? Duchene is at a career low.

The last season doesn't mean everything. But it does mean something.

His career high came the year before that. He had regressed back to 55 points, and the key de-valuing talking point was that his career high was just an exception and he is nothing more than a 50+ player.

 

[AMDZen]

Wasn't ROR coming off a career high in points before the trade? Duchene is at a career low.

The last season doesn't mean everything. But it does mean something.

Nope, he had 55 pts the year prior to the trade, his career high was the year before with 64 pts

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Go to the Island, play with JT. That would be fun to watch

 

[Ace]

Actually it's the other fanbases that don't see there are a variety of differences.

Main differences are: RoR was a greedy person, Matt is not. Matt is a loyal guy too so any team who acquires him would have a great chance to sign him as long as he gets treated fairly, and for a decent price. This includes places like Car whose fanbase constantly acts like there is no chance he resigns, when his character shows exactly the opposite. Duchene has more time on his contract than RoR did, two years is quite a significant difference. Duchene is a better player with more upside in almost every respect.

These are all differences in Duchenes favor as it relates to his value. There is absolutely nothing, anywhere to indicate that his value isn't much higher than RoRs value and the return will be greater, period.

How about the fact he hasn't been the better player the last two years?

For all this "better player offensively" he's been outproduced by RoR.

Defensively they aren't close.

 

[AMDZen]

How about the fact he hasn't been the better player the last two years?

For all this "better player offensively" he's been outproduced by RoR.

Defensively they aren't close.

Another stat checker that thinks that tells the story. Surprise.

Last year yes, the year before RoR had a whopping 1 pt more than Duchene while Duchene had almost 10 more goals. 30 goal scorers are more valuable than 60 pt players

 

[Super Hans]

Stop using the ROR trade as a measuring stick. Murray payed a lot because he really coveted a young two-way center. Much like Chiarelli coveted a young solid defenseman in Larssen.

 

[Nakawick]

So is Duchene being traded for O'Reilly now?

 

[Gravity]

Honestly, as a neutral party I would take ROR over Duchene 10/10. ROR is imo a better point producer and better 2 way player. He's made for the C position. Duchene is constantly switching back and forth between C and W and isn't a clear cut C.

 

[FourRings]

Don't be silly. How could removing the one piece that could make a Duchene trade tenable for Sakic, from negotiations be misconstrued so badly?

Trading Duchene will suck for the avs but getting back someone who might match duchene one day, a solid NHL dman, and a nice pick could make it workable even without the premiere defensive prospect; but if that centerpiece is off the table all further negotiation is pointless and the discussions implode.

If other teams aren't offering their crown-jewel prospect for Duchene (along with the other pieces mentioned), why should the Islanders? Sergachev was dealt for a younger player who has been improving season after season with the potential to be a superstar. Duchene is a phenomenal player in his own right but shouldn't (and probably won't) fetch a return commensurate to what TB got for Drouin.

 

[ichabod13]

Haha what? You know that Duchene led the league in faceoff percentage last year, right?

duchene had 1098 face offs total.
bergeron had 1089 face off WINS.

so face off percentage means diddly squat.

 

[67 others]

duchene had 1098 face offs total.
bergeron had 1089 face off WINS.

so face off percentage means diddly squat.

And O'Reilly had 1039 Faceoff wins(And maintained 58% on the dot). Clearly one of these guys is trusted with the bulk of the faceoff workload.

Duchene averaged 9 FOW per game, while O'Reilly averaged 14.5 FOW per game


Duchene's value is at an all time low from scoring 3 goals in his final 33 games as it is and was -20 during that stretch. I guess they need to look for a light anywhere they can find it

 

[IslandersFan17]

Actually it's the other fanbases that don't see there are a variety of differences.

Main differences are: RoR was a greedy person, Matt is not. Matt is a loyal guy too so any team who acquires him would have a great chance to sign him as long as he gets treated fairly, and for a decent price. This includes places like Car whose fanbase constantly acts like there is no chance he resigns, when his character shows exactly the opposite. Duchene has more time on his contract than RoR did, two years is quite a significant difference. Duchene is a better player with more upside in almost every respect.

These are all differences in Duchenes favor as it relates to his value. There is absolutely nothing, anywhere to indicate that his value isn't much higher than RoRs value and the return will be greater, period.

So you are using personality and their peroanal preference that you are SPECULATING on as your argument?

Tavares is as loyal as them come. Has consistently stated he wants to remain an Islander.

However, there are variables that will ultimately prevent him from signing an extension right away.

So to act like because Duchene is loyal means he'll automatically resign or increase the value..

Furthermore O'reilly was younger at the time he was moved, vastly better two way player, far less injury history, wasn't dangled on the market as long, and any team trading for him knew the contract parameters.

I mean, he literally resigned with Buffalo. So greedy or not, buffalo knew they were going to be able to resign him.

How in anyway does all this favor Duchene? It doesn't

 

[67 others]

So you are using personality and their peroanal preference that you are SPECULATING on as your argument?

Tavares is as loyal as them come. Has consistently stated he wants to remain an Islander.

However, there are variables that will ultimately prevent him from signing an extension right away.

So to act like because Duchene is loyal means he'll automatically resign or increase the value..

Furthermore O'reilly was younger at the time he was moved, vastly better two way player, far less injury history, wasn't dangled on the market as long, and any team trading for him knew the contract parameters.

I mean, he literally resigned with Buffalo. So greedy or not, buffalo knew they were going to be able to resign him.

How in anyway does all this favor Duchene? It doesn't

Duchene's "Loyalty" may not even transfer to a new team. He may become a business first man since the team he has cheered for since he was a child is trying to move him "business" style.

His loyalty is stepped in the fact that he grew up a die Hard Sakic/Roy Avalanche fan and his production drop is the result of shattered dreams. How many of you have worked at a job that took a turn for the worst with terribad management changes and how was your performance while you were miserable and all your co-workers were miserable?

 

[tucker3434]

So you are using personality and their peroanal preference that you are SPECULATING on as your argument?

Tavares is as loyal as them come. Has consistently stated he wants to remain an Islander.

However, there are variables that will ultimately prevent him from signing an extension right away.

So to act like because Duchene is loyal means he'll automatically resign or increase the value..

Furthermore O'reilly was younger at the time he was moved, vastly better two way player, far less injury history, wasn't dangled on the market as long, and any team trading for him knew the contract parameters.

I mean, he literally resigned with Buffalo. So greedy or not, buffalo knew they were going to be able to resign him.

How in anyway does all this favor Duchene? It doesn't

Whoa there. Some of this is false. Duchene has missed 23 games since 2012, not much of an injury history. And ROR was rumored to be on his way out since his ELC expired and it took an offer sheet to get him signed. In addition, Duchene has proven much more offensively at the time of the (potential) trade.

 

[Riseonfire]

Whoa there. Some of this is false. Duchene has missed 23 games since 2012, not much of an injury history.And ROR was rumored to be on his way out since his ELC expired and it took an offer sheet to get him signed. In addition, Duchene has proven much more offensively at the time of the (potential) trade.

Let's stop reading and talking past each other. He said 'less injury history, not that ROR was injury free or that Duchene is riddled with injuries.

Duchene missed 23 games since 2012 according to you. How many did ROR miss. If it's anything less than 23 you may need to lookup 'false' on the internet...

 

[tucker3434]

Let's stop reading and talking past each other. He said 'less injury history, not that ROR was injury free or that Duchene is riddled with injuries.

Duchene missed 23 games since 2012 according to you. How many did ROR miss. If it's anything less than 23 you may need to lookup 'false' on the internet...

The implication there is pretty clear. Maybe I should have used the term misleading instead of false. But "far less" injury history is pretty close to being objectively false. And if you want to go that route you can argue that ROR had a much worse contract holdout history than Duchene as the reason he wasn't around to even be injured for 19 games was due to a holdout.