Speculation: Matt Duchene Megathread pt2 - All News/Proposals Go Here

[Avs44]

What Cap-Era Rental has ever returned that much?

Just re-read it, sounds like your saying that return for NOW, not after another year.

I will point out that in 2015 a 27 year old Milan Lucic, coming off a 44 point season and with 1 year left on his contract, was traded for the 13th overall pick in the 2015 draft, Martin Jones (traded within days for San Jose's 2016 1st, and San Jose had just drafted 9th overall in 2015, although their pick was expected to be much later in 2016), and a 22 year old Colin Miller, who had upside. So that deal quickly turned into a 27 year old UFA coming off of a disappointing season (and a winger) for two 1st rounders and a young D with some potential - and one of those 1sts was top 15.


So there's actually a really recent example.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Seems like a pretty important job.

I don't think so. There are a lot of them around here, present company included.


The sub-thread started when a poster said a GM would be smart enough to give a player a pass for putting up bad numbers on a good team. I felt like maybe it was more complicated than that.

 

[Monk]

I don't think so. There are a lot of them around here, present company included.


The sub-thread started when a poster said a GM would be smart enough to give a player a pass for putting up bad numbers on a good team. I felt like maybe it was more complicated than that.

Ah, I see now. That explains why there is so little turnover at the GM position in most organizations.

 

[Goulet17]

the difference being that Lucic wasnt a player who was unhappy in boston. whereas Pat Brisson has made it eminently clear his client wants out of denver....Avalanche fans deny it vehemently but anyone who saw the heated argument between Brisson and Sakic can attest to it.

Duchene who once wanted to be an Avalanche for life now desparately wants out and has told associates so. its a fait accompli that he's gone, the only thing to be decided is if its by trade or free agency. Sakic has every right to make him miserable for the life of the contract, as he seems to be prepared to do, but it doesnt go unnoticed by players and I wouldnt be surprised if that is why Zadorov has taken the stance he has.

why would any player trust a GM who disrespects a team leader in such a fashion.... Kroenke as an absentee owner is actually to blame because both Roy and Sakic have been allowed to do whatever they pleased.

i would assume things will get no better until ownership gets involved before it becomes a full scale player revolt

Wow, do you actually have any legitimate sources that you can refer to for your claims, or are you just making it up as you go along?

 

[Goulet17]

i dont need to its common knowledge in NHL circles. like I said Avalanche fans will deny it vehemently, but they have every reason to do so, Anyone at the draft in Chicago saw firsthand how Brisson went after Sakic, and its no coincidence that the three teams rumored to be most in on Duchene all have very good working relationships with Brisson.

The Avalanche had a historically bad year last year because the players themselves feel theres no accountability from ownership and they let Roy and Sakic run roughshod over them. many players are simply going through the motions to collect their Paycheck

you dont have to believe it if you dont want to....honestly I could care less one way or another, but Brisson has a great working relationship with GM'S around the league and he's working hard to get Duchene Away from that situation. and word is Duchene isnt the only one....

So now you are a self-proclaimed NHL insider with knowledge about the inner workings of the NHL?

Why are you posting on these boards? It seems like you should be gunning for the jobs of McKenzie and Friedman.

Oh, on another point, you do realize that Patrick Roy was not with the Avs last season, right? I mean, as an NHL insider, it just seems like something you should know.

 

[EdAVSfan]

the difference being that Lucic wasnt a player who was unhappy in boston. whereas Pat Brisson has made it eminently clear his client wants out of denver....Avalanche fans deny it vehemently but anyone who saw the heated argument between Brisson and Sakic can attest to it.

Duchene who once wanted to be an Avalanche for life now desparately wants out and has told associates so. its a fait accompli that he's gone, the only thing to be decided is if its by trade or free agency. Sakic has every right to make him miserable for the life of the contract, as he seems to be prepared to do, but it doesnt go unnoticed by players and I wouldnt be surprised if that is why Zadorov has taken the stance he has.

why would any player trust a GM who disrespects a team leader in such a fashion.... Kroenke as an absentee owner is actually to blame because both Roy and Sakic have been allowed to do whatever they pleased.

i would assume things will get no better until ownership gets involved before it becomes a full scale player revolt

So now, the level of happiness a player exhibits will determine what he gets in a trade.

Interesting concept.

And zadorov is trying to max out his contract because of how miserable Sakic is making Duchene.

The conclusions, along their reasonings, are...inventive, to say the least.

A Russian player using the KHL as leverage to try to increase his contract...I can't believe no other player has ever thought of this.

I'd be extremely interested in hearing your conspiracy theories in regards to Tavares, why he hasn't signed a contract yet. Maybe he's extremely upset about how Snow treated Berube and Halak during the 3-goalie issue.

Maybe he doesn't like the eberle acquisition because there's a dispropotionate amount of E's in his name.

 

[EscapedGoat]

so what legitimate sources do you have to disprove any of what ive said? you have none because every word i said is true, its the biggest reason that the team had quite possibly the worst season if any non expansion team in NHL history. and the saddest part is if Brisson is right, its going to get worse

the fact remains you have absolutely no evidence to dispute his positions. none not one iota. I just posted so the regular fans know this has nothing to do with Duchene,

YOU made the claim. YOU need to back it up. You can't tell people who ask for proof to give you proof that your claims are not true. Doesn't work like that.

If I accuse someone of murder and they say "you have no proof I killed someone" and I respond with "you have no proof that you didn't kill someone", how would that go?

 

[Starat327]

i told you avalanche fans would deny this? they've not one single piece of evidence to the contrary

they ignore Brissons public argument at the draft.they ignore Zadorov's very public statement

they ignore the teams total collapse last year despite the obvious talent they possess, and yet theirs no problem whatsoever in the clubhouse

who should we believe clueless fans blindly layomh out hope for a franchise in turmoil or a man who is respected in all corners of the NHL....Pat Brisson.

you still havent provised any evidence to dispute ANYTHING ive said

to put it simply Mr Brisson is above reproach

Pat, you should hop off HFboards and start working on a trade for Duchene. You know better.

 

[EdAVSfan]

i told you avalanche fans would deny this? they've not one single piece of evidence to the contrary

they ignore Brissons public argument at the draft.they ignore Zadorov's very public statement

they ignore the teams total collapse last year despite the obvious talent they possess, and yet theirs no problem whatsoever in the clubhouse

who should we believe clueless fans blindly layomh out hope for a franchise in turmoil or a man who is respected in all corners of the NHL....Pat Brisson.

you still havent provised any evidence to dispute ANYTHING ive said

to put it simply Mr Brisson is above reproach

Have you read zadorov's interview?

The one where he says he's agreed to term with the avalanche but is still working on salary. The one where he specifically states he loves the avalanche, and that his contract dispute is not in any way hockey-related, but just business.

So I understand the way it works with you. You make claims, no back up, and then ask others to prove you wrong.

So my Tavares isn't signing because Eberle's name offends him is pretty much just as valid because you can't prove I'm wrong.

I reply, but in the back in mind, I know I shouldn't be feeding the ignorance. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...

I'll know better next time.

 

[EscapedGoat]

no i dont I just presented the individual facts as Mr Brisson has so eloquently listed them you dont need to believe them, youre mind is
already made up

no one denies Duchene Wants out, no one denies that zadorov said what he did, no one denies that Mr Brisson has in a very Public forum expressed his frustration with how this management group comports itself. and no one denies the historic failure this team was last year.

thise are all incontrovertible facts, youre trying to say they arent, yet you present not one shred of evidence to the contrary.

believe what you want. im just saying that Mr Brissons record of honesty and credibility shows what the truth is

Please show me these "individual facts that brisson listed". The only "fact" you have listed is there was a heated exchange involving brisson and sakic and you have taken that and run with your own wild theories and proclaimed them as facts that the other side needs to proof wrong. Again, doesn't work like that.

You used Zads not being signed right now as proof that he's not happy about the duchene sakic rift. Zads had an interview where he claimed he wants to stay in Colorado AND has already agreed to the term. How does that fit into your little narrative? I'm sure you'll try to spin it in some crazy way so you dont have to admit that you're wrong.

I'm not even going to comment on the irony of you telling me that my mind is already made up. Hello pot, I'm kettle.

 

[Pacman33]

Come on guys, we all know salty isles fans know everything about the avs and duchene. They just were trying to help us by gifting us hamonic for duchene. Avs shouldve had to add at least a first

 

[EdAVSfan]

Zadorov also has the agreed to terms in russia or did you fail to read that, what he said about the avs is all part of the negotiation, no more no less..... how will you spin it if sakic doesnt agree to Zadorovs request?

how much will you believe he loves the avs then?

thats the problem with your position. you only know what you want to believe. I know what Mr Brisson has said, and he has way more credibility than you do. I have no idea what John Tavares thinks. I do know what he has said in the past, but that is as I said in the past. I will not speculate for him. Id rather let him speak for himself.

the only reason i have said anything is that Mr Brisson had been misrepresented by some avs fans and since I heard what he said i feel i should set the record straight

I'll bite. I shouldn't, but I will.

Please show me brisson's direct quotes that you are referring to. Should be easy.

And please, no summations by other people. Brisson quotes.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Come on guys, we all know salty isles fans know everything about the avs and duchene. They just were trying to help us by gifting us hamonic for duchene. Avs shouldve had to add at least a first

Please don't generalize like that. It doesn't help these threads. There are plenty of isles fans who keep it respectful in here.

 

[EscapedGoat]

I'll bite. I shouldn't, but I will.

Please show me brisson's direct quotes that you are referring to. Should be easy.

And please, no summations by other people. Brisson quotes.

Yeah I asked for the same thing and there's silence now.

Ps islesguy Zadorovs direct quote is that if a deal isn't reached he'll go to cska. Well no duh. He isn't going to hold out and forfeit money. If sakic effs it up avs fans will be screaming even louder that he needs to go. Youre making it seem like avs fans are defending him when 95% of hfavs wants him gone.

 

[Avs44]

the difference being that Lucic wasnt a player who was unhappy in boston. whereas Pat Brisson has made it eminently clear his client wants out of denver....Avalanche fans deny it vehemently but anyone who saw the heated argument between Brisson and Sakic can attest to it.

And that lowers Duchene's value below Lucic's...how? And can you show a video of this argument? You've made 10+ claims in this thread and I've yet to see a link to anything. I've no doubt Duchene is hacked off and wants out, but that doesn't justify you running around the thread and posting random things. These are an awfully confusing and "interesting" 6 first posts on HFboards.

 

[cgf]

Lucic actually hated Boston and desperately wanted out for years; just like Tavares & the Islanders. It's commonly known in hockey circles.

 

[EscapedGoat]

Lucic actually hated Boston and desperately wanted out for years; just like Tavares & the Islanders. It's commonly known in hockey circles.

Yeah, Pat Brisson told me that. And his word and my claim of what he told me is infallible.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

no i dont I just presented the individual facts as Mr Brisson has so eloquently listed them you dont need to believe them, youre mind is
already made up

no one denies Duchene Wants out, no one denies that zadorov said what he did, no one denies that Mr Brisson has in a very Public forum expressed his frustration with how this management group comports itself. and no one denies the historic failure this team was last year.

thise are all incontrovertible facts, youre trying to say they arent, yet you present not one shred of evidence to the contrary.

believe what you want. im just saying that Mr Brissons record of honesty and credibility shows what the truth is

I searched for anything on an argument between Brisson and Sakic at the draft. All I could find was a tweet by Dreger

"Matt Duchene's agent, Pat Brisson had a quick chat with Joe Sakic at the end of 1st round and is now in discussion with David Poile..."

https://twitter.com/darrendreger/status/878437332986339329?lang=en

and a very brief blurb in Newsday in a story on the Hamonic trade

"Two league sources said Pat Brisson, Duchene’s agent is seriously unhappy with Sakic’s foot-dragging on a deal. That could lead to a reduced price tag later on should Snow still be interested."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hocke...-traded-to-calgary-for-draft-picks-1.13761218

Is there anything beyond those quotes? There just isn't much in what I could find.

 

[Fatass]

I searched for anything on an argument between Brisson and Sakic at the draft. All I could find was a tweet by Dreger

"Matt Duchene's agent, Pat Brisson had a quick chat with Joe Sakic at the end of 1st round and is now in discussion with David Poile..."

https://twitter.com/darrendreger/status/878437332986339329?lang=en

and a very brief blurb in Newsday in a story on the Hamonic trade

"Two league sources said Pat Brisson, Duchene’s agent is seriously unhappy with Sakic’s foot-dragging on a deal. That could lead to a reduced price tag later on should Snow still be interested."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hocke...-traded-to-calgary-for-draft-picks-1.13761218

Is there anything beyond those quotes? There just isn't much in what I could find.

Nice job with the research. Thanks
To me these two quotes show that Duchene wants out for sure, but other teams might not really value him that much.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Nice job with the research. Thanks
To me these two quotes show that Duchene wants out for sure, but other teams might not really value him that much.

I'm not sure how much those indicate. Brisson talked to a couple of GMs at the draft and he's unhappy that Sakic hasn't traded him. As a Columbus fan, I saw this play out with both Carter and Nash. Nash was on the market for a year and a half. It was pretty much business as usual while it was going on.

There just wasn't anything there to indicate an argument at the draft, general dissatisfaction by Avs players and nothing about players themselves feeling there's no accountability from ownership or that they let Roy and Sakic run roughshod over them.

Let's leave it at this. The Avs have had a few bad years. Fans feel they are very talented. The Avs need to change the team's makeup. Sakic would like to get as much as he possibly can for Duchene, hopefully enough to go a long way towards the rebuild. To this point, other GMs are unwilling to pay his price. The rest is TBD.

 

[cgf]

Yeah, Pat Brisson told me that. And his word and my claim of what he told me is infallible.

Everybody knows how much Tavares hates the Islanders; you don't even need Brisson to tell you to know that.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

anyone who saw the heated argument between Brisson and Sakic can attest to it.

Anyone at the draft in Chicago saw firsthand how Brisson went after Sakic

Uhhh. Yeah, I'm going to want to see some evidence of this theory you're throwing out there. Dreger said that Sakic and Brisson had a quick chat but that's it. I have a hard time believing that they had a "heated argument" and that Brisson "went after Sakic" yet nobody in the mainstream media picked up on it.

If Dreger, a guy known for blowing things out of proportion reported that they had a "quick chat" I find it hard to believe it was the boxing match you're making it out to be.

 

[cgf]

Uhhh. Yeah, I'm going to want to see some evidence of this theory you're throwing out there. Dreger said that Sakic and Brisson had a quick chat but that's it. I have a hard time believing that they had a "heated argument" and that Brisson "went after Sakic" yet nobody in the mainstream media picked up on it.

If Dreger, a guy known for blowing things out of proportion reported that they had a "quick chat" I find it hard to believe it was the boxing match you're making it out to be.

That's cause you're not in hockey circles. Anyone who is knows that the only person who hates his team more than Duchene, is Tavares.

 

[Frenchy]

closed ,

I dont see the point of creating a part3 for now , since we didnt get anything new regarding any trade rumours lately.

We will create a new thread when there will be something new to talk about.