Speculation: Matt Duchene Megathread pt2 - All News/Proposals Go Here
- Thread starter g00n
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One day Sakic will trade Matt Duchene...
lol I just spit my pop out at dinner. Still, thank you. This is awesome.
Dumais
It's All In The Reflexes
- Jul 24, 2013
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I like Duchene, would be happy giving up PLD & Carlsson. With a conditional 1st (if CBJ makes it past the 1st round of the playoffs in the next 2 years with him on the team or if he signs a contract extension) in 2019 or 2020. If none of those conditions are met, it becomes a 2nd - 4th round pick.
Sorry that's the highest I would pay for him because of the same reasons you would have concerns about the conditions of the conditional pick.
There's no doubt Wennberg would need to beat out Dutch for the 1c role, and I think he would do it either this year or next. Which is why I'm not particularly interested in making the deal when it cost top end prospects that already are in CBJ's plans going forward. Duchene is not and I'm worried he's going to be another 50 point player like Dubi, Foligno, Hartnell, Atkinson type when we need top line talent that can play at the same level as Panarin.
So don't ask for 3 players that either are or will be next season "nhl level talent with potential...+ a 1st!" Duchene doesn't = tell your GM to bend over we are taking all the cookies ... or ... the cookie jar, he isn't the piece we need (just like kovy) to get past the Pens or Caps.
Sorry that's the highest I would pay for him because of the same reasons you would have concerns about the conditions of the conditional pick.
There's no doubt Wennberg would need to beat out Dutch for the 1c role, and I think he would do it either this year or next. Which is why I'm not particularly interested in making the deal when it cost top end prospects that already are in CBJ's plans going forward. Duchene is not and I'm worried he's going to be another 50 point player like Dubi, Foligno, Hartnell, Atkinson type when we need top line talent that can play at the same level as Panarin.
So don't ask for 3 players that either are or will be next season "nhl level talent with potential...+ a 1st!" Duchene doesn't = tell your GM to bend over we are taking all the cookies ... or ... the cookie jar, he isn't the piece we need (just like kovy) to get past the Pens or Caps.
Pacman33
#teamZ
- Feb 9, 2017
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I would be ok with that as an avs fan but im sure some won't. It depends on risk appetite. Hard to move duchene for a package that includes so little nhl experience. Im ok with a higher risk/higher reward package but also understand its a hard sell for a gm also trying to appease the fans a bit. Casual fans would hate trading a fan favorite for such a future heavy package
Duchene doesn't get 3 ****ing 1sts... Especially 1 of those being the 3rd pick overall just a year ago who has only showed tremendous growth and development with a drive to make the team out of camp in a mid 6 role at 19. As the youngest person in his draft year he nearly made the team last year being the final cut. He's a blue chip center.
I'm not even going to argue with how undervalued Carlson is being treated in this thread. The kid came over from Europe at the end of the season played an AHL game, 2 regular season games I think it was, and then steps up to play tremendous D in a series against our biggest rivals in his 4th ever NA game in such an impressive way younwould have thought he was the steady vet on the team out there. Plays phenomenal defensive style hockey. He has talked in interviews so far this off-season about putting on tons of muscle and trying to fill out plus talking about how he is aiming to improve further on his offense. Very driven to make the team after last year and it seems like Jarmo has big plans for him. At the end of the year GMJK specifically talked about Carlson making the team out of camp this year, Gavrakov making the team (signed in Russia for the Olympics though), and Nuti definitely having top 4 potential so it was very obvious our future D core was set going forward and the obvious long term plan going forward from here is Jones, Werenski, Savard, Carlson, Nuti, and Gavrikov with the purpose of using our established 2/3D who is 24yo and is coming off a season where he was top pair for team NA in the world cup as a Jones/Johnson style trade chip in which is perfect for Duchene even though the fan base is in denial.
The 1st can go in a Duchene trade but it has to be a 19 conditional. Only based on signing. If he stays it's yours unprotected if not it's a 3rd or 4th.
So those 3 pieces are 98% not only not leaving but 100% and I'll repeat that... 100% not being moved together unless there is a deal where we get something like a signed Tavares. 3 1sts is what you pay for top end offersheet guys... that's not Duchene. I don't know why people just don't say we don't want to trade him or he's not good enough to get what we want from you, here's the players we want... who do we add on top Mac to get that. It would save everyone time.
I'm not even going to argue with how undervalued Carlson is being treated in this thread. The kid came over from Europe at the end of the season played an AHL game, 2 regular season games I think it was, and then steps up to play tremendous D in a series against our biggest rivals in his 4th ever NA game in such an impressive way younwould have thought he was the steady vet on the team out there. Plays phenomenal defensive style hockey. He has talked in interviews so far this off-season about putting on tons of muscle and trying to fill out plus talking about how he is aiming to improve further on his offense. Very driven to make the team after last year and it seems like Jarmo has big plans for him. At the end of the year GMJK specifically talked about Carlson making the team out of camp this year, Gavrakov making the team (signed in Russia for the Olympics though), and Nuti definitely having top 4 potential so it was very obvious our future D core was set going forward and the obvious long term plan going forward from here is Jones, Werenski, Savard, Carlson, Nuti, and Gavrikov with the purpose of using our established 2/3D who is 24yo and is coming off a season where he was top pair for team NA in the world cup as a Jones/Johnson style trade chip in which is perfect for Duchene even though the fan base is in denial.
The 1st can go in a Duchene trade but it has to be a 19 conditional. Only based on signing. If he stays it's yours unprotected if not it's a 3rd or 4th.
So those 3 pieces are 98% not only not leaving but 100% and I'll repeat that... 100% not being moved together unless there is a deal where we get something like a signed Tavares. 3 1sts is what you pay for top end offersheet guys... that's not Duchene. I don't know why people just don't say we don't want to trade him or he's not good enough to get what we want from you, here's the players we want... who do we add on top Mac to get that. It would save everyone time.
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Duchene is a really good hockey player you know that right? Gotta give to get. He has the high end skill to be a 1C and his defensive game has come a long way. He's tremendous in the dot.
I get the apprehension of trading for 1 year of him...but the value is there.
Correct he is a really good hockey player... how many guys that are "Really good" get you 3 1st round picks for 2yrs?
If he was a 1C he would be playing 1C right now. You guys have Mac and he is really good too but it's not like Mac is a 75pt every year player that is keeping Duchene at 2C. Ive heard he has a tendency to try and make moves to get himself open and makes some bad turnovers that way. Thats a good way to get put in Torts dog house.
I'm more then willing to give up top teir young talent to get talent. Ive been one of the people more then Ok giving you guys a huge price for Duchene basically giving you guys your own Johanson trade by trading you a 24yo current 2/3 top teir defensive defenseman who is in the Seth Jones depth hell position. We could also throw in a conditional 1st on the terms he signs and if not it's a 3rd or 4th. A 24yo 2/3D and a 1st is a haul for a guy who doesn't want to be on a team any longer after being dragged through rumors for a year and not many teams have the pieces and cap to take him. Most teams that had that need also have already made their moves and no longer need him such as Nashville. Carolina has already removed themselves because of the price being asked is to much without guarantee resigning. It's literally CBJ or walk likely unless a huge massive injury to a top level team at the TDL and that's not very likely.
Dumais
It's All In The Reflexes
- Jul 24, 2013
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I agree on the defense part, just not the offense part. Maybe he reaches that playing with Panarin but I doubt it.
I can let potential go for a player like Duchene, not to keen on letting Werenski or Jones go ... or a package that would strip the cupboards bare for a true 1st line center. Right now, waiting for Carlsson to become the next Werenski or PLD to become the next Johansen so we can trade for a Mackinnon, McDavid, Seguin, etc...seems like a bigger risk than trading those guys for someone that could help now in the playoffs.
Maybe MGT can see how he gels with his new teammates and get a 1st back if it turns to ****. Maybe Duchene works great with Jenner and he fits into the long term plans. All I do know is going into the playoffs again with Wennberg and Dubi (unless Wennberg takes a huge step forward and becomes a top line center scoring like Panarin) doesn't bold well. Plus maybe they can move Dubi in another deal for Idk something that helps in a playoff run. I get PLD & Carlsson are two value able pieces and taking a chance on Duchene isn't worth them in a vacuum.
My reasoning is, is having them (PLD & Carlsson on the team next year) gIve us a better or worse chance next year entering the first round? or is having Duchene there better? I think Duchene and Dubi matching up against Crosby and Malkin, leaving Wennberg and Panarin to face other lines, Having Duchene and Dubi killing penalties would be better giving Wennberg the powerplay.
Look I don't think it will get us past them, but it would help more having him than them...
Not that it matters much and I assume you're responding from a phone and cant see avatars but I'm not a Lumbus fan at all so no need for the "you guys"...just an outsider chiming in with my opinion that Duchene can help put your team over the top. I also don't exactly agree with your valuation of "3 first rounders"...one hasn't happened yet in the OP and Carlson in a commodity to you but in relative terms isn't some sure fire guy to most others. The terms need to defined. It's not like giving up 3 top 10 picks...
I'm a Sabres fan and we gave up essentially 3 firsts for ROR...varying in degree and we havent looked back...ROR didnt have a long term contract...we gave him one and it worked out. The model is not dissimilar other than Duchene has more offensive touch and is good if not better at the dot that ROR....
- Oct 24, 2008
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Yeah I only visit the site via phone. I agree he could help us big time and put us over the top. But it has to be reasonable. Someone posted something over on the CBJ board a article or part of 1 saying since Murray slid down because talent and not because his lack of talent that the and that since its the cbjs 5th guy right now regardless of talent it doesn't hurt the jackets. So it looks like right now it's not about getting anything fair... Sakic is pissed about Duchene and wants to take it out on someone.
The Jets offer:
Copp
Dano
Petan
Chiarot
2018 2nd
2019 2nd
Logan Stanley
Chase De Leo
Eric Comrie
Future Considerations
Brent Kichton
Michael Hutchinson
2018 4th
Matthias
For:
Duchene
Bigras
2018 3rd
and enough garbage to even out the contracts
Copp
Dano
Petan
Chiarot
2018 2nd
2019 2nd
Logan Stanley
Chase De Leo
Eric Comrie
Future Considerations
Brent Kichton
Michael Hutchinson
2018 4th
Matthias
For:
Duchene
Bigras
2018 3rd
and enough garbage to even out the contracts
- Oct 24, 2008
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No deal. Future considerations just not working for me. Add like 6 more players instead.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Given that his points have been focused a bit on goals and his WOWYs suggest he's not so great with other shoot-first types, I really doubt it. If we picked him up, I'd be pairing him with Foligno.
trentmccleary
Registered User
Nobody really wants Duchene as their 1st line center. He's in that pack of centers between 21st to 40th.
He's clearly a 1st line calibre player at RW, passably at center. But he's not an elite offensive player who leads an offense. He's a complimentary piece that you pair with an elite player. Is that worth 3-4 high end young pieces? ... Not really.
Definitely not cherry picking saying Hayes has similar production lol. Same players offered different thread. Graves is probably worth a 3rd
- Oct 24, 2008
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Asking price is higher than that.
Young top 4 LHD
Very good F or D prospect
1st round pick
Please show me the "absolute trash" proposals?
Unless something changes Sakic has shown nothing to make anyone think he's competent as a GM. So I wouldn't have any faith at him at all in making the right decision.
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