Prospect Info: Marner at the top of OHL scoring race.

[ACC1224]

Remember babcock said he likes to start young guys on the wing so we might have to wait a while before we see him at centre in the nhl.

I suspect that will be the case for Marner.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

I wonder how the results would look like if Dvorak was centering Piccinich and Max Jones? Probably wouldn't have so many tap ins like these:



Weird train of thought if you ask me.

You do realize that was a good play by Dvorak too, right?

 

[SprDaVE]

You do realize that was a good play by Dvorak too, right?

Did I ever say it wasn't?

The point I was making wasn't to diminish the impact of Dvorak.

 

[Mess]

I wonder how the results would look like if Dvorak was centering Piccinich and Max Jones? Probably wouldn't have so many tap ins like these:



Weird train of thought if you ask me.

PS. That's SH and Marner and Dvorak always play together killing penalties for the Knights that wouldn't change even if they were both centering their own lines.

Without question Tkachuk and Dvorak stats would also decline without having Marner riding shotgun with them at ES. All 3 players stats declined when Dale Hunter began the season with Dvorak centering one line and Marner centering his own.

Just like yesterday Dvorak had 2-3-5 points and was 1st Star of the game and Tkachuk had a hattrick and 4 points and the 3rd star and Marner's 4 points had a big influence on that outcome for his linemates. They wouldn't have accomplished that without him.

 

[SprDaVE]

PS. That's SH and Marner and Dvorak always play together killing penalties for the Knights that wouldn't change even if they were both centering their own lines.

Without question Tkachuk and Dvorak stats would also decline without having Marner riding shotgun with them at ES. All 3 players stats declined when Dale Hunter began the season with Dvorak centering one line and Marner centering his own.

Just like yesterday Dvorak had 2-3-5 points and was 1st Star of the game and Tkachuk had a hattrick and 4 points and the 3rd star and Marner's 4 points had a big influence on that outcome for his linemates. They wouldn't have accomplished that without him.

All right so what was the point of bringing an hypothetical situation about line changes and how much it would potentially change Marner's impact, and/or vice versa?

I don't get it?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Would be interesting to know what Marner's stats would be if instead of Tkachuk -- Dvorak -- Marner & top scoring line in the OHL, that Marner played centre on another line himself?

Leafs were hoping Marner would play centre this year, which was actually the original plan Mark Hunter had envision when stating he thought Marner would be an NHL centre, (by developing Mitch into one this year in London), unfortunately that didn't work out and he was moved back to the wing and only played a dozen or so games in the middle.

So if it was Tkachuk -- Dvorak -- Berisha as one line and JJ Piccinich -- Marner -- Max Jones another like the Knights started the year as what would the results look like?.

Marner would still get all his PP points by manning the point on the PP like he does now, but his ES point total would reflect linemates other than Tkachuk and Dvorak.

There's literally no way to quantify that without extrapolating from sample sizes that are too small to responsibly produce intelligent hypotheses.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Did I ever say it wasn't?

The point I was making wasn't to diminish the impact of Dvorak.

That's the impression that I got from it.

Dvorak benefits from Marner and Marner benefits from Dvorak. They have great chemistry.

 

[SprDaVE]

That's the impression that I got from it.

Dvorak benefits from Marner and Marner benefits from Dvorak. They have great chemistry.

You might want to read what I was replying to. Perhaps that could help explain my post.

 

[pspot]

do you draft Tkachuk because of his chemistry with Marner or Nylander because of his chemistry with his brother?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

do you draft Tkachuk because of his chemistry with Marner or Nylander because of his chemistry with his brother?

Neither?

 

[SprDaVE]

do you draft Tkachuk because of his chemistry with Marner or Nylander because of his chemistry with his brother?

You draft Tkachuk or Nylander because of their skillset not because of their chemistry with another player.

You can't control chemistry in the future because you're not sure what will happen then. Maybe someone like Dubois has even more chemistry with Marner? Maybe W or A Nylander has a career ending injury in the near future, etc etc.

You always always ALWAYS draft the best possible player based on their abilities, not because of other factors that can be altered, formed or changed.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

do you draft Tkachuk because of his chemistry with Marner or Nylander because of his chemistry with his brother?

Neither are worthy of 4th overall.

 

[CaymanIslands]

Laine is the perfect pick for the Leafs

 

[Finnish your Czech]

You might want to read what I was replying to. Perhaps that could help explain my post.

I read the post

Just saying that there was two sides to that particular play. It wasn't some spectacular individual effort from Marner.

 

[Mess]

There's literally no way to quantify that without extrapolating from sample sizes that are too small to responsibly produce intelligent hypotheses.

Agreed, Marner only played parts of a dozen or so games in the middle this year and sometimes Hunter didn't even make it full games as when behind on the scoresheet, it wasn't uncommon for him to reunite his big line as he shortened the bench in games to generate more offense.

The reason the sample sizes are small is because the plan of Dvorak centering 1 line and Marner another didn't pan out as expected. Why did it fail? Having balanced scoring as opposed to all ones eggs in the same basket should have benefited the Knights attack not hindered it, resulting in the plan to be scrapped. The trio of Tkachuk -- Dvorak -- Marner is so deadly offensively that even a 1 line attack must have outweighed the advantage of spreading out the scoring.

However (IF) Marner should be returned to junior next year and with Dvorak graduating to pro there really would be no reason why we wouldn't likely see a Tkachuk -- Marner -- Jones top line.

The one silver lining of a Marner returned to junior would be development as a centre, which would be a different situation to challenge Marner to now carry the Knights (without support from co captain Dvorak). If Marner is too good as a RW in junior with nothing left to learn or prove, them playing centre and new position for him would increase responsibilities in the FO dot and defensive zone coverage etc etc.

If management don't keep Marner with the Leafs next year then this might be one thing on the table that they're considering as a benefit of a return to junior for another year to get stronger as well as mastering another position and doing it without a linemate (Dvorak) which has been a dynamic offensive duo in junior the past 2 seasons.

 

[saltming]

Agreed, Marner only played parts of a dozen or so games in the middle this year and sometimes Hunter didn't even make it full games as when behind on the scoresheet, it wasn't uncommon for him to reunite his big line as he shortened the bench in games to generate more offense.

The reason the sample sizes are small is because the plan of Dvorak centering 1 line and Marner another didn't pan out as expected. Why did it fail? Having balanced scoring as opposed to all ones eggs in the same basket should have benefited the Knights attack not hindered it, resulting in the plan to be scrapped. The trio of Tkachuk -- Dvorak -- Marner is so deadly offensively that even a 1 line attack must have outweighed the advantage of spreading out the scoring.

However (IF) Marner should be returned to junior next year and with Dvorak graduating to pro there really would be no reason why we wouldn't likely see a Tkachuk -- Marner -- Jones top line.

The one silver lining of a Marner returned to junior would be development as a centre, which would be a different situation to challenge Marner to now carry the Knights (without support from co captain Dvorak). If Marner is too good as a RW in junior with nothing left to learn or prove, them playing centre and new position for him would increase responsibilities in the FO dot and defensive zone coverage etc etc.

If management don't keep Marner with the Leafs next year then this might be one thing on the table that they're considering as a benefit of a return to junior for another year to get stronger as well as mastering another position and doing it without a linemate (Dvorak) which has been a dynamic offensive duo in junior the past 2 seasons.

If hunter was patient, something that doesn't hapen in the ohl, imo marer would have adapted and shined.
He is showing that he takes time to adapt to new line mates rosles leagues etcetera.
As for going back to learn to play at centre, is would rather he learn that in the nhl under babcock.

 

[Durrr]

do you draft Tkachuk because of his chemistry with Marner or Nylander because of his chemistry with his brother?

If we somehow got another pick that was 5-8 I'd take Tkachuk.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Maybe we can convince the Knights to get rid off all their good players and have Marner play with a bunch useless hacks so he can learn to hog the puck and try to everything himself in a league he's too good for, so we can pat ourselves on the back for being so patient and promoting development.

 

[SprDaVE]

This wasn't posted in this thread but you can watch every point of Marner from his 2015- 2016 season. What a season.

 

[I Believe]

Laine is the perfect pick for the Leafs

Agreed.

It would suck dropping to 3rd or 4th, knowing that in any other year we'd be guaranteed one of Matthews or Laine.

 

[canadon]

This wasn't posted in this thread but you can watch every point of Marner from his 2015- 2016 season. What a season.

Awesome highlights! 20 minutes of joyful entertainment! Thanks!

 

[Mess]

If hunter was patient, something that doesn't hapen in the ohl, imo marer would have adapted and shined.
He is showing that he takes time to adapt to new line mates rosles leagues etcetera.
As for going back to learn to play at centre, is would rather he learn that in the nhl under babcock.

Marner has now played 3 full seasons in junior nearly entirely as a winger (All-Star RW X 2) to be exact.

Babcock would be the first to tell people that the NHL is not a development league and traits need to be learned and developed in junior/AHL. He has said something similar in regards to all Leafs prospects not pertaining specifically to Marner alone as his belief system of being NHL ready. He is on record as stating young centre's coming into the NHL would be preferred to be broken in as wingers in pro because the transition is easier without all the defensive responsibilities and face-off duties other factors when adjusting to NHL speed and game which is a big one.

Marner playing 3 years of junior and then another 2 or so on the wing in the NHL would mean transition to a new position that he hasn't played since bantam/minor midget when he was 15 years old.

So I'm saying IF the Leafs truly believe they would like to develop Marner as a future centre then returning him to junior next year would be the #1 reason for his return and benefit of doing so. They had in fact hoped Marner would have already have a year development under his belt now when they returned him last season believing that to be plan but Dale Hunter scrapped brother Mark's plan.

Whereas keeping him with the Leafs is essentially saying junior centre training is not a benefit nor requirement, if they now envision him as a permanent NHL RW going forward. The fact the plan failed last season might already have made this decision for Leafs management easier.

 

[Stephen]

Marner doesn't necessarily have to be a center, depending on how the draft works out.

 

[LV*]

Neither are worthy of 4th overall.

This. For the Leafs I want: Matthews, Laine, Chychrun or Dubois with our first.

 

[LV*]

Marner doesn't necessarily have to be a center, depending on how the draft works out.

Or he can be Stammer's new set up man on the wing like MSL