Markus Nutivaara

[JKinCLE]

Have you actually watched Kukan in the AHL or are you just basing it off last year's callup? The dude is a turnover machine. Carlsson and Gavrikov are unproven unknowns, this isnt fantasty call up land where one just calls people that they think are ready. These players need to outplay the guys in the AHL. They are our direct line of reinforcements, no team is going to sign a rookie from Sweden or Russia to come in and play third pairing defense on the first place team in the league. Perhaps next June if they beat out Nutivaara in camp but as of right now, no freaking chance. As for your evaluation of Nutivaara, you seem to be the outlier.

This. Right now Kukan is not an NHL dman. He looked just OK in his callup last year, and looks just OK with the Monsters this year.

I'm very pleasantly surprised with "Nutsack", playing in the NHL in his first year in North America, and +1 draft year as a 7th rounder.

 

[brianhatesu]

Only one thing is certain. Markus Nutivaara will be a future Stanley Cup champion. Ryan Murray won't be.

When is he going to win this cup? the odds are greater that he's not even in the league in three years than him winning a cup?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

When is he going to win this cup? the odds are greater that he's not even in the league in three years than him winning a cup?

It's a can't-lose prediction/statement. It's so under-the-radar that no one expects it. And if by some chance it does happen, you look prescient. It's like predicting Sonny Milano will win more Richard trophies than Werenski wins Norris trophies.

 

[hardkorejackets]

Ah. Markus Nutivaara. Where pretty much everybody on this board agrees that he is a good #6 D-man and has made improvements through the year..

If Kukan was ready to be an NHL'er he had his shot this offseason, but was beaten out. If he is ready to be an NHL'er let him force his way on this team. I personally think we might have overrated Kukan a bit last year after his brief cup of coffee in the NHL last year.

Mikeyrp- And for pete's sakes.. Why are you so worried about who our #6 D-man is next year. 1. That's 9 months away. 2. We are 1st place in the NHL right now on January 10th with 60 points in 39 games. 3. We are in a playoff race right now- We have funner things to worry about and discuss for once!! Enjoy the present moment!

 

[mikeyp24]

Have you actually watched Kukan in the AHL or are you just basing it off last year's callup? The dude is a turnover machine. Carlsson and Gavrikov are unproven unknowns, this isnt fantasty call up land where one just calls people that they think are ready. These players need to outplay the guys in the AHL. They are our direct line of reinforcements, no team is going to sign a rookie from Sweden or Russia to come in and play third pairing defense on the first place team in the league. Perhaps next June if they beat out Nutivaara in camp but as of right now, no freaking chance. As for your evaluation of Nutivaara, you seem to be the outlier.

I said I would be hesitant to bring up Kukan and mess with chemistry so I don't know why you think I want him up or think he's better right now. Last year's call up he was great but this year stats aren't looking great and what I saw preseason wasn't great. I trust the front office to make the right choice there. I just have not been impressed with some of his play when exiting the zone... he has made some really sloppy turnovers that guys like Prout and Goloblouf and even JMFJ were blown up for in previous years.

And I mentioned 2 guys I think will be better long term not plug in today. Again I don't know where you got me saying switch it out right now. And those 2 guys from over seas you say have to outplay guys in the AHL to get a spot... how long did Nutivaara play in the AHL and outplay those guys before getting a chance? He's on the team because right now he fits the best and that's great I'm just saying for the future of the team out of all our current guys and prospects he imo is not in the best 6. But if JJ leaves in expansion or doesn't resign that changes the conversation because right now I see him being a career bottom pairing guy. I see Carlsson as a potential #4 but he could also be a solid shut down style bottom pairing D who could end up playing great with Nutivaara. Gavrikov I see as a floor #4 pure shutdown. Peeke is the unknown right now he could be Ryan Collins bust or Werenski boom or anywhere in between.

I just don't see Nutivaara ever cracking our top 4 where I can see 2 or 3 others doing so. But I have been wrong before and I will be again. I'll be happy if I am wrong because that's good for the team though and anything that helps the team I want.

 

[mikeyp24]

Mikeyrp- And for pete's sakes.. Why are you so worried about who our #6 D-man is next year. 1. That's 9 months away. 2. We are 1st place in the NHL right now on January 10th with 60 points in 39 games. 3. We are in a playoff race right now- We have funner things to worry about and discuss for once!! Enjoy the present moment!

It's just fun speculation. Some of the funnest parts of talking about a team in a good or bad season is the future. If they are bad better luck next year we have ______ ready to go then and we can turn it around. If we are good it's wait until next year when we have this team PLUS _________ and we will dominate. It's like people talking about PLD and will he be here next year.

Right now there are only 3 iffy parts of the team. #1 Back up goalie. That was already a issue to start the year
And most wanted one of the kids up here. #2 A bottom pair defensemen that is the quality of our other 5. We have 5 guys right now who are capable of playing top pair minutes... 4 of which have done so in their career with no problem. Savard is the only one to my knowledge without significant time on the top pair and this year I have no doubt he could play #2 just fine. So with 5 guys that good it would be great to have that 1 other rock on D to give us 3 pairs that can be played at any time on any line based on whom torts feels is playing what line best that night. No one here except one very very passionate Finn who may or may not be in love with Nutivaara would say he's capable of top pair minutes this year. And finally #3 Jenner needing to fit this new system. He currently seems like he is the only forward struggling with the new system for whatever reason. It seems us fans are split on what we want to do with him but we all agree we want something to change.

So yes while we are winning there is much to celebrate but you can't really debate happiness and what are you happier with cams 20 goals and being one of the leading PP scorers in the league or Saad scoring 15 goals and being one of the top even strength goal scorers in the league. There's no fun there you have to discuss the stuff to fix no matter how small because no matter what you can always be better =)

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

There's no fun there you have to discuss the stuff to fix no matter how small because no matter what you can always be better =)

You can be also a lot worse in the future if you base every decision on period of three months. What did they say about coaching the outcome?

 

[major major]

We have 5 guys right now who are capable of playing top pair minutes... 4 of which have done so in their career with no problem. Savard is the only one to my knowledge without significant time on the top pair and this year I have no doubt he could play #2 just fine.

Savard has top pair D experience going all the way back to our last playoff run. Over the last three years, he has played more total minutes than any of our other D.

 

[Columbus Jack]

I said I would be hesitant to bring up Kukan and mess with chemistry so I don't know why you think I want him up or think he's better right now. Last year's call up he was great but this year stats aren't looking great and what I saw preseason wasn't great. I trust the front office to make the right choice there. I just have not been impressed with some of his play when exiting the zone... he has made some really sloppy turnovers that guys like Prout and Goloblouf and even JMFJ were blown up for in previous years.

And I mentioned 2 guys I think will be better long term not plug in today. Again I don't know where you got me saying switch it out right now. And those 2 guys from over seas you say have to outplay guys in the AHL to get a spot... how long did Nutivaara play in the AHL and outplay those guys before getting a chance? He's on the team because right now he fits the best and that's great I'm just saying for the future of the team out of all our current guys and prospects he imo is not in the best 6. But if JJ leaves in expansion or doesn't resign that changes the conversation because right now I see him being a career bottom pairing guy. I see Carlsson as a potential #4 but he could also be a solid shut down style bottom pairing D who could end up playing great with Nutivaara. Gavrikov I see as a floor #4 pure shutdown. Peeke is the unknown right now he could be Ryan Collins bust or Werenski boom or anywhere in between.

I just don't see Nutivaara ever cracking our top 4 where I can see 2 or 3 others doing so. But I have been wrong before and I will be again. I'll be happy if I am wrong because that's good for the team though and anything that helps the team I want.

Maybe I misread you wrong here and for that I apologize but previously there have multiple posts, whether it be on the mains or other places, where you more or less call Nutivaara not worthy of the 6 spot and call for Gavrikov to replace him. In terms of no Nutivaara playing in the AHL, my initial post was addressing the fact that if those guys (gav and carlsson) wanted to replace him now, they would have to compete with the AHL guys first. Since we already have made a decision from training camp, we can pretty surmise this is the dman that Torts chose. If they decide to go in a different direction next season, fair enough I dont care but for now, Nutivaara isnt really a glaring hole and imo by far our best ever 6 dman.

 

[JackieMoon]

I've been fortunate enough to watch a good bit of the games this year. I don't recall Nutivaara being prone to turnovers in any games I've seen as another poster suggested. I really like Nutivaara. Tortorella has been encouraging him to shoot more. I like his shot, and as of late he's been jumping up on the play and doing it well and without getting burned. I've seen him fire off wrist shots from south of the faceoff circles on more than one occasion. While Murray has looked good this year as well. I've also seen Nutivaara keep the puck in the offensive zone a few times after someone poke checks it away from Murray or when Murray misses on receiving a pass. To reiterate, I'm not trying to paint Murray in a negative light. I just want to recognize Nutivaara's excellent play. There's a reason the Jackets are near the top defensively, they have great depth on D 1-6.

 

[major major]

He and Zach are both prone to turnovers, as one might expect. I'm hoping to see more of Harrington down the stretch.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Inexperience is the lazy man's explanation. Far more meaningful would be to approach the change from meidän peli to whatever Tortorella represents.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

He and Zach are both prone to turnovers, as one might expect. I'm hoping to see more of Harrington down the stretch.

Harrington? I'd rather see Prout...or even a trade for a 5/6 UFA to be defenseman (Franson?). Harrington showed very little to be trusted with more playing time

 

[cbjpointman]

Nutivaara was brutal last night. Rookie looked like a rookie. Turnover led to a goal, and then was outmuscled on the game winner. Nuuti has been a very pleasant surprise this year, but last night we got burned by the young D (and goaltending) and it cost us a game.

Just as a brutal game literally cost Mac his job (and Forsberg his shot), I'd expect Nutivaara to sit for a game or two and see what Prout/Harrington has. Prout has established that he can be an NHL defensemen in the 5/6 slot. We don't know what Harrington has, but clearly the FO has been afraid for 3+ months to expose him to waivers, so we have to figure they know something. Nutivaara will be back, but my guess is he sits for a few games.

 

[hardkorejackets]

The Harrington situation is a bit weird to me.. I know we lost 2 defense-man to waivers last year. Personally, I think we could sneak him through waivers, but I haven't seen his play/practice/or in the "know"

I wonder if they are partially afraid to see their #8D-man get claimed off waivers and just receiving a 5th round pick for Kerby Rychel? Maybe they see potential in Harrington and don't want to risk losing him?

Anyways, I'd give Prout a start on Tuesday for Nutivaara.

 

[KCbus]

Nutivaara was brutal last night. Rookie looked like a rookie. Turnover led to a goal, and then was outmuscled on the game winner. Nuuti has been a very pleasant surprise this year, but last night we got burned by the young D (and goaltending) and it cost us a game.

Just as a brutal game literally cost Mac his job (and Forsberg his shot), I'd expect Nutivaara to sit for a game or two and see what Prout/Harrington has. Prout has established that he can be an NHL defensemen in the 5/6 slot. We don't know what Harrington has, but clearly the FO has been afraid for 3+ months to expose him to waivers, so we have to figure they know something. Nutivaara will be back, but my guess is he sits for a few games.

Pretty much.

Nutivaara will be fine eventually (I think), but he is a rookie, and as Torts would say, "this is part of the process for him."

Plus, it's one thing to have a rookie in the lineup and let him develop when you're not expected to go anywhere. Which is what this team was at the start of the season. But now, we're fighting for home ice advantage in the playoffs. If your rookie is taking lumps, you're taking them with him. We can't afford that. If he's struggling, we need to get someone in there who will play better.

 

[major major]

Harrington? I'd rather see Prout...or even a trade for a 5/6 UFA to be defenseman (Franson?). Harrington showed very little to be trusted with more playing time

Maybe you saw something I missed. I saw Harrington look shaky but still make the right play (contrast that with our rookies nonchalantly letting the other team have the puck).

I haven't seen Franson in ages, but I remember him having a similar tradeoff to what we have now in Nuti. Not a safe guy, for sure.

 

[CBJfan4evr]

He and Zach are both prone to turnovers, as one might expect. I'm hoping to see more of Harrington down the stretch.

. Harrington is a pylon. Good luck with that.

 

[CBJfan4evr]

Everybody needs to chill. It's one game and he's a rookie. He's serviceable bottom pair. Prout>harrington. But only if you want heavy game. My guess is all 3 would get beat on game winner.

 

[major major]

Everybody needs to chill. It's one game and he's a rookie. He's serviceable bottom pair. Prout>harrington. But only if you want heavy game. My guess is all 3 would get beat on game winner.

The game winner, where the puck is on and between the tape of Nuti's and tape of Jagr's sticks, and Jagr just outpushes Nuti (not a skill play) - you think all would get beat there equally? That play to me is exhibit A why Prout should be in.

Also, "relax he's a rookie" seems a but misplaced here. I know. Rookies are supposed to make mistakes. That and the strength issue is why I want to see a veteran down the stretch. Is there something wrong with that?

 

[Old Guy]

When C-Mac was waived and the two young goalies were given opportunities during the 2nd week of January, it looked like Jarmo and Company wanted to see how close those guys were before the trade deadline. It only stands to reason to see where Prout and Harrington are for several games - either to showcase them to potential trade partners, or just to let them shake off the dust.

Very pleased with Nutivaara's contribution so far. Big surprise to me. But a couple games in the press box won't end the world.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Also, "relax he's a rookie" seems a but misplaced here. I know. Rookies are supposed to make mistakes. That and the strength issue is why I want to see a veteran down the stretch. Is there something wrong with that?

Somehow the last few defeats have brought up multiple scapegoats into a team which needed very little reinforcement just before in the minds of more than a few. I think the phenomenom is easy to pinpoint. When understanding does not reach the required level in times of hardship you turn to easy explanations, demanding sacrifices to be made inside the team. Despite it continuing to be now very allowing injury situation overall, when about everyone is live and healthy.

To truly change anything around this team you have to change first.
The current way of talk does not take the ice hockey in Columbus or the Americas forward as it is completely removed of the play. You are only fueled by the star cult and hidden numbers. That is why you fail.

 

[major major]

Somehow the last few defeats have brought up multiple scapegoats into a team which needed very little reinforcement just before in the minds of more than a few. I think the phenomenom is easy to pinpoint. When understanding does not reach the required level in times of hardship you turn to easy explanations, demanding sacrifices to be made inside the team. Despite it continuing to be now very allowing injury situation overall, when about everyone is live and healthy.

To truly change anything around this team you have to change first.
The current way of talk does not take the ice hockey in Columbus or the Americas forward as it is completely removed of the play. You are only fueled by the star cult and hidden numbers. That is why you fail.

Tulip, he cost us 2 goals, there's no great mystery to uncover here. It wouldn't hurt him to sit a bit, no one's saying he shouldnt start again. Even if one is a big nut for Nuti, we should be able to agree that the team needs more time to exercise and assess Harrington and Prout before the playoffs.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

How many goals has Nutivaara allowed to be scored? Whether you want to play is a question of far more greater significance than personnel choices. Errors rise from bad structure of play. In a time like this when the wicked are eager to torn some more I think it is important to remember that easy answers do not suffice during a 0-8 start, for example. Maybe the posters have gotten sloppy. Maybe Tortsirella has lost the plot. I doubt the rookies or the goaltenders are the question nor the answer. Drill time for the team. Unity. Throw everything they have against, not away.

I believe Harrington and Prout get their chances as back-up since I doubt the six will go all the way even in being able to play. Not to mention the two have been training with the gang similar to Goloubef previously so it ain't like they are far removed from the inner circle of this team. In order to guard the concept of this team you cannot have every Joe bananas introduced. Leicester City went ahead without injuries. Christian Fuchs was too offensive-minded for the liking of some in Gelsenkirchen.

 

[Old Guy]

You are only fueled by the star cult and hidden numbers. That is why you fail.

I don't understand this. I know you are trying to talk about hockey, but it sounds more like American politics.