Player Discussion: Mark Scheifele Discussion Part III

[Robinson2187]

I think Scheifele and Laine, should hold on to the puck in the ozone a little more, than just getting it and scoring right away pass it around a little more, left and right

I forgot which line it was who had one of the best possession stats but scoring wise they are bottom of the pack when it comes to the scoring leaders as a unit.

Scheifele's line leads the scoring but had the worst Corsi

So the line is a net negative? If you have a point, you might want to emphasise it now.

 

[RRenegade]

So the line is a net negative? If you have a point, you might want to emphasise it now.

I think he means that the line's high shooting percentage has a detrimental effect on their possession stats. Anyone know what their actual goals for/against is?

 

[Trilliann]

Ehlers Goals for 37 - Goals against 36
Scheifele 36 - 34
Laine 32 - 27

(puckalytics.com)

 

[irunthepeg]

#markscheifelite

 

[csk]

I think Scheifele and Laine, should hold on to the puck in the ozone a little more, than just getting it and scoring right away pass it around a little more, left and right

I forgot which line it was who had one of the best possession stats but scoring wise they are bottom of the pack when it comes to the scoring leaders as a unit.

Scheifele's line leads the scoring but had the worst Corsi

I think he means that the line's high shooting percentage has a detrimental effect on their possession stats. Anyone know what their actual goals for/against is?

While this is possible, I don't think Scheifele's line is the type of line where this has much of an effect.

This is because they shoot from pretty far out relative to most lines (via Laine), sometimes causing a puck battle or loss of the o-zone in the event of a miss. Crash and bang lines on the other hand would loose a lot of shot attempts from a high % because many of their shots are generated of rebounds.

 

[Gurilla]

#markscheifelite

Genius.

 

[JetsFan815]

His CorsiRelTM for the season is almost as bad as Chris Thorburn's. But you forgot to mention that Thorburn's are better than Laine's. And guess whose SF% RelTM is worse than Scheifele's, Laine's as well. Guess which 2 players are also riding incredibly high shot%. That's right Scheifele and Laine. 4th and 11th in the league controlled for 40 games played. Maybe we can start looking for other explanations rather than wanting to shut down the guy who is 8th in league scoring.

He's been carrying around an 18 year old rookie who unsurprisingly has not been a very good possesuon player or a possesion black hole in Drew Stafford. His possesion numbers without either of the two are solid this year. I think it's simply that he's had to carry the load for his line all year with some poor shot metrics players. Teams are also game planning for him. I'm not at all concerned.

This! ^^^^^^^^

O a more minor note would also speculate that he has a nagging injury that may be slowing him down but nothing to be concerned about.

I don't know boys, I think it is more injury than linemates. I am not denying that the linemates haven't contributed to the problem (I was actually fully subscribed to this theory until like mid-December), however, in previous years Scheifele has shown himself to be a good enough play driver to float above water even when playing with negative shot differential players. He did not lose that skill overnight. His shot numbers have actually gotten worse since Laine got injured. Ehlers' numbers overall look just fine despite playing in the same situations as Scheifele for the most part.

Even ignoring the stats and just watching his play, it seems clear to me that something is bothering him. His health should take priority over these games. Jets gave Little all the time off he needed to recover and he came back as good if not better than ever. The Jets should not be short-sighted here and should try to nip the problem in the bud. To me this is more concerning that the Jets season overall

 

[csk]

I don't know boys, I think it is more injury than linemates. I am not denying that the linemates haven't contributed to the problem (I was actually fully subscribed to this theory until like mid-December), however, in previous years Scheifele has shown himself to be a good enough play driver to float above water even when playing with negative shot differential players. He did not lose that skill overnight. His shot numbers have actually gotten worse since Laine got injured. Ehlers' numbers overall look just fine despite playing in the same situations as Scheifele for the most part.

Even ignoring the stats and just watching his play, it seems clear to me that something is bothering him. His health should take priority over these games. Jets gave Little all the time off he needed to recover and he came back as good if not better than ever. The Jets should not be short-sighted here and should try to nip the problem in the bud. To me this is more concerning that the Jets season overall

He didn't play with negative players much though. His most common line mates in previous years have been Perreault, Wheeler, Frolik, Kane, Ehlers and Stafford. All of these player except Stafford are corsi heroes... and his line with Stafford was garbage.

 

[surixon]

I don't know boys, I think it is more injury than linemates. I am not denying that the linemates haven't contributed to the problem (I was actually fully subscribed to this theory until like mid-December), however, in previous years Scheifele has shown himself to be a good enough play driver to float above water even when playing with negative shot differential players. He did not lose that skill overnight. His shot numbers have actually gotten worse since Laine got injured. Ehlers' numbers overall look just fine despite playing in the same situations as Scheifele for the most part.

Even ignoring the stats and just watching his play, it seems clear to me that something is bothering him. His health should take priority over these games. Jets gave Little all the time off he needed to recover and he came back as good if not better than ever. The Jets should not be short-sighted here and should try to nip the problem in the bud. To me this is more concerning that the Jets season overall

His overall CF% is above 50 so he is staying afloat. I don't think anyone will deny that he's not 100% and looks a step slower but he's still helping the team out there. Put him with Perrault and Wheeler and his advanced stats jump way up. Even now with Stafford injured they are saddling him with another poor possesion player who's put of his element in the top 6 in Copp.

Quite frankly I'd rather he take some lumps learning how to be the one to carry the load with bad all around players. Knowing Mark he'll learn a lot from it.

 

[KingBogo]

I don't know boys, I think it is more injury than linemates. I am not denying that the linemates haven't contributed to the problem (I was actually fully subscribed to this theory until like mid-December), however, in previous years Scheifele has shown himself to be a good enough play driver to float above water even when playing with negative shot differential players. He did not lose that skill overnight. His shot numbers have actually gotten worse since Laine got injured. Ehlers' numbers overall look just fine despite playing in the same situations as Scheifele for the most part.

Even ignoring the stats and just watching his play, it seems clear to me that something is bothering him. His health should take priority over these games. Jets gave Little all the time off he needed to recover and he came back as good if not better than ever. The Jets should not be short-sighted here and should try to nip the problem in the bud. To me this is more concerning that the Jets season overall

The Jets aren't going to shut down their #1 center and top point getter in the middle of a playoff race. They need to win games. If Scheif had an injury he couldn't play through or something that could lead to permanent damage he would be IR. Since he isn't we will all hope it gradually improves with a better schedule in the 2nd half. Players play and fans pay to watch players play.

 

[Thai jet*]

His overall CF% is above 50 so he is staying afloat. I don't think anyone will deny that he's not 100% and looks a step slower but he's still helping the team out there. Put him with Perrault and Wheeler and his advanced stats jump way up. Even now with Stafford injured they are saddling him with another poor possesion player who's put of his element in the top 6 in Copp.

Quite frankly I'd rather he take some lumps learning how to be the one to carry the load with bad all around players. Knowing Mark he'll learn a lot from it.

Won't he have Petan today?

 

[winnipegger]

He'll get a week off coming up. He doesn't look as explosive to me this year, that's for sure.

I think you're overreacting a bit, a nagging injury =! you need to shut down for a season. The fact he's still scoring and doing so well while not looking as good as he could is actually hopeful.

 

[JetsFan815]

His overall CF% is above 50 so he is staying afloat. I don't think anyone will deny that he's not 100% and looks a step slower but he's still helping the team out there. Put him with Perrault and Wheeler and his advanced stats jump way up. Even now with Stafford injured they are saddling him with another poor possesion player who's put of his element in the top 6 in Copp.

Quite frankly I'd rather he take some lumps learning how to be the one to carry the load with bad all around players. Knowing Mark he'll learn a lot from it.

Where are you getting that from? Are you looking at all situations including PP by any chance? As of yesterday evening both on corsica and puckalytics his 5v5 corsi's was hovering around 48.5%, -1.3 RelCorsi and -3.0 CorsiRelTM.

I don't have any problem with him learning to play in harder situations. The only problem I have is with playing him injured

 

[irunthepeg]

Hoping the week off will let him get back to close to 100%.

 

[surixon]

Where are you getting that from? Are you looking at all situations including PP by any chance? As of yesterday evening both on corsica and puckalytics his 5v5 corsi's was hovering around 48.5%, -1.3 RelCorsi and -3.0 CorsiRelTM.

I don't have any problem with him learning to play in harder situations. The only problem I have is with playing him injured

Hockey reference now has him at a 50.6 CF% or a rel CF% of 1.3. Granted that's for EV situations so it will incorporate 4 on 4.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/WPG/2017.html

 

[KingBogo]

Where are you getting that from? Are you looking at all situations including PP by any chance? As of yesterday evening both on corsica and puckalytics his 5v5 corsi's was hovering around 48.5%, -1.3 RelCorsi and -3.0 CorsiRelTM.

I don't have any problem with him learning to play in harder situations. The only problem I have is with playing him injured

Why? If it was something that could be further damaged he'd be on IR. Last game he looked to have a little more explosiveness and is likely on a gradual improvement curve. The ASG break will help a little more.

 

[Gurilla]

7th in league scoring, once again.. ELITE!!

 

[YWGinYYZ]

7th in league scoring, once again.. ELITE!!

6th amongst forwards, 4th amongst centres.

 

[JetsFan815]

He still doesn't look 100% but he has been better these last 3 games since I got on his case

 

[YWGinYYZ]

He still doesn't look 100% but he has been better these last 3 games since I got on his case

Your sip-fu is strong.

 

[Thai jet*]

Why? If it was something that could be further damaged he'd be on IR. Last game he looked to have a little more explosiveness and is likely on a gradual improvement curve. The ASG break will help a little more.

Are we any higher in the standings for playing 55 while he is still injured?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Are we any higher in the standings for playing 55 while he is still injured?

This is ridiculous already. The guy is 4th in scoring amongst centres - if he were injured as badly as some seem to think, the Jets wouldn't be playing him. If he's not injured, then there's no way he's staying out of the line-up.

What would you say to Scheifele to keep him out of the line-up? What do you do when his agent baulks, and goes to the NHLPA to complain? Keeping him out of the line-up with no medically valid reason (which, BTW, you can't prove, as you're not privy to this information), simply suppresses his ability to further his earning ability later in his career by limiting his ice time.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Your sip-fu is strong.

Ya know, we should all chip in to buy sip tickets by the Jets' locker room exit for all the games. So he can motivate them with his "inspiring" words as they enter and exit the ice. Guaranteed we'd be a good 10-20 points higher in the standings.

"Hey Scheif! I'd fist bump you, but you suck!"

 

[KingBogo]

This is ridiculous already. The guy is 4th in scoring amongst centres - if he were injured as badly as some seem to think, the Jets wouldn't be playing him. If he's not injured, then there's no way he's staying out of the line-up.

What would you say to Scheifele to keep him out of the line-up? What do you do when his agent baulks, and goes to the NHLPA to complain? Keeping him out of the line-up with no medically valid reason (which, BTW, you can't prove, as you're not privy to this information), simply suppresses his ability to further his earning ability later in his career by limiting his ice time.

Agreed. This whole shutting down Scheifele debate is ridiculous. The guys a top 10 point getter playing big minutes on a team chasing a playoff spot. At this point in the season most players are dealing with some sort of injury. I think what is benefiting Scheif right now is switching lines with Little. Playing with Wheeler he is freed up from so much attention on defensive support in his own end. Playing in the offensive zone more is helping play to his strengths.

 

[surixon]

Agreed. This whole shutting down Scheifele debate is ridiculous. The guys a top 10 point getter playing big minutes on a team chasing a playoff spot. At this point in the season most players are dealing with some sort of injury. I think what is benefiting Scheif right now is switching lines with Little. Playing with Wheeler he is freed up from so much attention on defensive support in his own end. Playing in the offensive zone more is helping play to his strengths.

His underlying numbers have jumped since the move and Little's have plummeted (Small sample). So I think there is might be some validity to the linemates argument. It will be interesting to see if that trend continues.

I also think there is some fatigue at work as well. He's played a lot of minutes this year. Arguably substantially overplayed so that is likely having an impact on him playing a less intense game.