Mark Messier

[KreiderHouseRules*]

I'm closing in on 50 now and have memories of Rangers games from when I was about 6 on. I saw a lot of great Rangers teams and lot of great Rangers players in all those years. And they all ultimately led to heartache.

All of them. Every single one of those great teams and great players broke my ****ing heart.

And then that glorious 93-94 season, the sense of invincibility, the brilliance of Leetch, Graves, Richter and others and the sheer forcefulness of Messier.

I only doubted in the second intermission of game 6 against the Devils. I was with my brother and told him I was done, that this was one more ****ing choke job to add to our decades long list. He told me nothing is over yet... And of course Messier delivered.

After that game, I didn't give a **** about anything anymore because I knew our time had come.

For me it's not even close, Messier is my favorite player and the greatest Ranger to ever wear the jersey. And my oldest son is named after him for that reason.

Thanks for the chilling memories!

 

[NYR Quest for Cup]

I'm closing in on 50 now and have memories of Rangers games from when I was about 6 on. I saw a lot of great Rangers teams and lot of great Rangers players in all those years. And they all ultimately led to heartache.

All of them. Every single one of those great teams and great players broke my ****ing heart.

And then that glorious 93-94 season, the sense of invincibility, the brilliance of Leetch, Graves, Richter and others and the sheer forcefulness of Messier.

I only doubted in the second intermission of game 6 against the Devils. I was with my brother and told him I was done, that this was one more ****ing choke job to add to our decades long list. He told me nothing is over yet... And of course Messier delivered.

After that game, I didn't give a **** about anything anymore because I knew our time had come.

For me it's not even close, Messier is my favorite player and the greatest Ranger to ever wear the jersey. And my oldest son is named after him for that reason.

I turned 50 last year. And just like you, I remember superstar after superstar that we brought to NY to help end the curse, all wilt and disappear. No one seemed like they could handle the pressure of NY. Until Messier.

I had to work late Game 6, got to my car from the train and turned on the radio and they were down 2-0. I was certain against the Devils D and Brodeur that it was over. I got home, decided I was going to "be a man", grabbed 2 beers and turned on the TV with the intent of watching another season go down the drain.

I saw Kovi's goal assisted by Mess and a flicker of hope emerged. And then I watched The Captain deliver in the 3rd.

He was the best leader I have ever seen. In any sport. And i will forever be grateful for finally being the Captain that ended those merciless 1940 chants.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Mess is my favourite player ever.
We went on a family holiday to the US in Dec 93 -Jan 94 and i talked my dad into taking me to a hockey game on night in LA. The only thing i knew about hockey was that there was thus guy named Gretzky and he was basically a god and the best player ever...
The game just happened to be LA vs the Rangers, and as Gretzky was a King i figured they were the better team and so cheered for the Rangers as the underdog. I had no idea what was happening most of the time but #11 for the Rangers was just this beast of player, hitting everyone and scoring a goal. The Rangers won in OT and my love of the Rangers and Mess was born.

What a great game you chose! Very envious you got to see it live!

Classic game. Rangers get a penalty shot in the last seconds as Tony Granato jumped off the bench to stop Tony Amonte from getting a breakaway. Amonte is stopped. Ensuing face off, Messier scores.

That game was so surreal. We coughed up the lead in the 3rd & it looked like it was certain to finish in a tie. Granato actually grabbed Amonte from the bench. He wasn't even on the ice! As much as I liked Amonte, he didn't score big goals as a Ranger. When he missed on the penalty shot, I was ready to turn the TV off.

When we won the faceoff & Messier scored with less than 10 seconds to go, I literally jumped out of my bed & yelled so loud I woke my mother up. She was furious, but I was so fired up & couldn't stop laughing. Remember it was late on the east coast when the game ended. Almost 2AM. I was a senior in college & had to be up EARLY! It was so worth it to see the ending of that game.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Before Messier came to NY, the Rangers had a losing mentality, especially with the Isles DOMINATING us in the late 70s through the 80s. People who weren't around NYC at the time have no idea how much Messier changed the culture of the organization.

It started with his first game after the trade. We hadn't won in the Montreal Forum in almost 10 years. We tied the game 1-1 in the 3rd & scored in OT to win it. From that moment on, there was a sense that things were going to be different. Even though we flamed out early again in the '92 playoffs, you knew the needle was pointing up.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Game 6 against NJD was absolutely torture to watch. My friends invited me to go watch at our local watering hole, but I couldn't bear to be in public when they inevitably choked again. We didn't subscribe to Sportschannel, but I convinced my mom to call & add it to our cable plan for the extra $5 a month on the night of the game. I literally locked myself in my room & didn't want to talk to anyone. Thank god cell phones weren't mainstream yet or I would've turned mine off & not looked at it til the next morning.

When we were down 2-0 late in the 2nd, I was a complete wreck. Even Messier stated that Mike Richter was the hero of that game. The score could've been 6-0 had Richter not stopped 2 on 1 after 2 on 1. It was a miracle we were still in it at all. Once Kovi scored, breath actually returned to my lungs.

Fast forward to the 3rd, when Messier tied the game on that shifty backhand, I truly believe the entire borough of Queens heard me yelling. I only got louder when we took the lead. It was only when Mess scored the empty netter did I unlock my door & take a victory lap around my house. I couldn't believe what we all witnessed actually took place. Still feels like that was a dream.

Game 7 was worse, pressure wise. Those games are great to look back at now, but OMG were they total hell when they were happening live.

 

[NYR94]

The man is a legend. The best Ranger I've ever seen play in my life and one of the best NHLers ever. Like others have said, he changed the culture here. Think about that--we often hear of players being traded to a different team and hoping that a change of scenery/culture will change them. This was one guy changing an entire organization. It's just amazing to think of all the areas he influenced, on the ice, in the dressing room, talking to the media, being a mentor to a guy like Leetch, etc. The guy came to New York facing a seemingly impossible task and delivered.

 

[Cassano]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2116549

Oilers board response, just to put it in context.

Just need one on the Canucks board and we're set.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Game 6 against NJD was absolutely torture to watch. My friends invited me to go watch at our local watering hole, but I couldn't bear to be in public when they inevitably choked again. We didn't subscribe to Sportschannel, but I convinced my mom to call & add it to our cable plan for the extra $5 a month on the night of the game. I literally locked myself in my room & didn't want to talk to anyone. Thank god cell phones weren't mainstream yet or I would've turned mine off & not looked at it til the next morning.

When we were down 2-0 late in the 2nd, I was a complete wreck. Even Messier stated that Mike Richter was the hero of that game. The score could've been 6-0 had Richter not stopped 2 on 1 after 2 on 1. It was a miracle we were still in it at all. Once Kovi scored, breath actually returned to my lungs.

Fast forward to the 3rd, when Messier tied the game on that shifty backhand, I truly believe the entire borough of Queens heard me yelling. I only got louder when we took the lead. It was only when Mess scored the empty netter did I unlock my door & take a victory lap around my house. I couldn't believe what we all witnessed actually took place. Still feels like that was a dream.

Game 7 was worse, pressure wise. Those games are great to look back at now, but OMG were they total hell when they were happening live.

I was 12 years old during the '94 run. I didn't have Sportschannel either, and wound up watching Game 6 at the Port Jefferson bowling alley on Long Island. My father, who is a long-time die hard fan and perhaps the most cynical Ranger fan you'll ever meet had to work late and came in during the 1st intermission with the Rangers down 2-0 and getting dominated. He sat down beside me and said "Dont worry, they've got this." Ill never forget that for as long as I live. It was the Messier show after that.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I was at Game 6 with my Dad. Still one of the best moments of my life with him.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Like his style or not...

Like that he's home grown or not...

Like that he was awesome also with a former team or not...

Like that he was here during the dark years or not...

In regard to overall impact, Mark Messier is the greatest player to put on the sweater even if his greatness was a shorter window.

In regard to hockey, he's one of the top 10 to put on skates ever.

/thread

 

[Leetch66]

Like his style or not...

Like that he's home grown or not...

Like that he was awesome also with a former team or not...

Like that he was here during the dark years or not...

In regard to overall impact, Mark Messier is the greatest player to put on the sweater even if his greatness was a shorter window.

In regard to hockey, he's one of the top 10 to put on skates ever.

/thread

I still think he in the top 5 of all time when you take into consideration his International play with Team Canada .Gretzky/Orr/Howe/Mario and Mark Messier .

 

[Baby Punisher]

What I love about Messier is he wanted to come to NY, he wanted to win in NY. He accepted all the responsibility and he let the other guys do their thing. And not only that, he performed at a world class lever.

Brian Leetch is the greatest home grown Ranger I ever saw, but who knows what he would have been if 11 didn't come here. A good player, sure. But a champion? Hall of Famer?

I've met and read a lot of Ranger fans who are like, "F Messier." I never understand that. Because of what happened the 2nd time around? Hell I remember games towards the end of his career where he'd be out there playing with one arm.

Messier is in the top 5 of all time players in the history of the NHL, maybe top 3. How many Rangers have we seen win a Hart Trophy, as a Ranger.

He's the best Ranger, ever.

I share similar sentiments. Even towards the end he was carrying them. What a mess those teams were. I remember being at games where little kids were booing him. Young kids that were way to young to appreciate 1994. Very disrespectful to an icon.

 

[Baby Punisher]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2116549

Oilers board response, just to put it in context.

Just need one on the Canucks board and we're set.

I wouldn't advise going over to the Canucks board and starting a thread. They are still very bitter about the Messier thing. They truly hate him over there and will not give him any credit for helping to lay down a pretty good foundation that was to last for years to come after he departed.

 

[Zamboner]

42/43 year old Messier, who people **** on today, as some embarrassment on the ice at the time, was putting up half a point per game, in a dead puck era, and was still better than a lot of the players that get drooled over today. He was a beast.

 

[JanErixon20]

I share similar sentiments. Even towards the end he was carrying them. What a mess those teams were. I remember being at games where little kids were booing him. Young kids that were way to young to appreciate 1994. Very disrespectful to an icon.

42/43 year old Messier, who people **** on today, as some embarrassment on the ice at the time, was putting up half a point per game, in a dead puck era, and was still better than a lot of the players that get drooled over today. He was a beast.

I remember being at a game and some fan, an older guy, not some young kid, yelled out, "Messier you suck." My buddy was flabbergasted. How can anyone yell, "Messier you suck?" People who don't truly understand what's going on, I guess.

And I recall a game where he was basically playing with one arm, where late in the third of a tie game, he won a face off and either scored the GWG or was the primary assist.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

42/43 year old Messier, who people **** on today, as some embarrassment on the ice at the time, was putting up half a point per game, in a dead puck era, and was still better than a lot of the players that get drooled over today. He was a beast.

Eh, Yeah, you're right.

That said, he was nowhere near the best he was in his first stint here and still acted like he was. That was the problem a lot of fans had with him.

 

[JanErixon20]

Eh, Yeah, you're right.

That said, he was nowhere near the best he was in his first stint here and still acted like he was. That was the problem a lot of fans had with him.

Nowhere near his best and was still producing while playing hurt. What was the issue again?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Nowhere near his best and was still producing while playing hurt. What was the issue again?

The issue is he still carried a mentality around like he was the man when his best days were behind him. It was a symptom of entitlement that was all too prevalent during those dark ages teams

 

[Edge]

Eh, Yeah, you're right.

That said, he was nowhere near the best he was in his first stint here and still acted like he was. That was the problem a lot of fans had with him.

That was the problem certain fans on the Internet had with him, the vast majority of Ranger fans had little problem with him. Personally, I find that those two groups are not necessarily one and the same.

With that said, I didn't and still don't think Messier was the problem during those years. The problem was that those teams just weren't very good.

The holes on defense were pretty noteworthy, the forwards who were supposed to be assuming the leadership roles on the team were in their last days as impact NHL performers (and their impact was all over the map), the goaltending became a game of roulette and there wasn't a lot of help on the horizon. Not sure a prime Messier was going to magically turn that around.

I never got that Messier still desired to be the offensive centerpiece on those teams. In 2001, he was the second line center behind Petr Nedved. In 2002, he was slotted behind Lindrtos and Nedved (who fell off considerably). In 2003, he was was still slotted behind those guys, neither of whom had great seasons and then the Rangers tried throwing Bobby Holik into the mix. By 2004, everything was even more of a mess --- Nedved was essentially done as a top six forward, Lindros was a shell of his former self and Holik was terribly miscast on the team.

Messier supposedly had all this power and yet his closest friends were shipped out including Graves and Leetch. He supposedly "hated" Nedved and was going to run him out of town, and yet the two played together for four years.

Frankly, the organization was DOA during those years, from top to bottom. That was due to poor management, not because of some weird Illuminati like influence that Messier had.

 

[Crease]

Must have been late July 2000, I was at Shea watching the Mets. Despite watching the team get pounded, the fans were in good spirits chanting:

Let's Go Rangers!
(Messier is back-in-town)

 

[Steve Kournianos]

The Rangers were already on the cusp before the Messier trade. But there was a leadership void and a lack of real accountability. Gartner was the senior guy and he was a poor leader. Patrick too. Leetch was quiet. Messier tightened it up.

 

[Boris Zubov]

The Rangers were already on the cusp before the Messier trade. But there was a leadership void and a lack of real accountability. Gartner was the senior guy and he was a poor leader. Patrick too. Leetch was quiet. Messier tightened it up.

On the cusp of what? We'd won one playoff round since going to the semis in '86. We were thoroughly embarrassed in the '91 playoffs & Neil Smith had accused some of the team of quitting during that series vs the Caps. Big changes were imminent that off season.

Before the 91-92 season started, not many would've imagined the Rangers winning the Presidents Trophy. Even after the Messier trade, it was still inconceivable they were Cup contenders until that team really started to gel around December.

 

[JanErixon20]

The issue is he still carried a mentality around like he was the man when his best days were behind him. It was a symptom of entitlement that was all too prevalent during those dark ages teams

Would you rather have him walking around saying, "I'm not that good?" So he carried around that mentality, he was still good on the ice. He played hard every night. What do you care about the way he acted? "Look at that Messier, playing hurt, thinking it's 1990. What an entitled a-hole."

I don't care what type of person a player is. If they are good players, that's all that concerns me. They're not my friends, I'm not trusting them with my kids. Perform on the ice/field. That's all that matters to me. It's like with Lawrence Taylor. "HE DID COKE!" Yeah, so, that's his problem. He was great on the field, which is all that mattered to me. If he wants to be a d--k in his own life, that's his problem.

 

[Edge]

On the cusp of what? We'd won one playoff round since going to the semis in '86. We were thoroughly embarrassed in the '91 playoffs & Neil Smith had accused some of the team of quitting during that series vs the Caps. Big changes were imminent that off season.

Before the 91-92 season started, not many would've imagined the Rangers winning the Presidents Trophy. Even after the Messier trade, it was still inconceivable they were Cup contenders until that team really started to gel around December.

Agreed. The Rangers didn't really have an identity at that point. I mean prior to Messier's arrival, Kelly Kisio was the captain. How many people under the age of 25 are going to have to look that name up on HockeyDB or HockeyReference?

The Rangers of that time had a mix of skilled young players, mid-level prospects and aging vets on the downside of their career. You had Brian Leetch, James Patrick and then a cliff on defense. Amonte and Weight were valued, but still somewhat unknown commodities and the team lacked a truly elite, centerpiece forward. The team had some players who were skilled but relatively meek, and other guys who were fearless but lacked a lot of skill. There wasn't much in the way of bridging those gaps heading into the 91-92 season.

Certainly there were pieces in place for Messier to work with, but it's not as if Messier slid into a situation that was going to be wildly successful beyond a shadow of a doubt. Afterall, the team hadn't won more than 37 games or finished with more than 5 more wins than losses in about 7 years. It was a team stuck in the middle of the pack and struggling to break out.

As I said early, the image we have of Leetch, Graves, Richter and others was not there prior to 1991. Heck even Leetch, beloved by Rangers fans, was seen by more than a few as an excellent player whose off-ice commitment was the one thing seperating him from the truly elite. I don't think he quite gets there without Messier, if for no other reason than the profound impact Messier had on his fitness level.

Again, to understand Messier's full impact, or that of any true impact player, is to look beyond their on-ice contributions. Do they make their teammates better? Can they dictate a team's pulse? Do they help create an environment that brings out the best in their teammates?

At the end of the day, you usually get one of two types of players:

1. A guy who wins a lot of hardware, dominates a lot of games, but doesn't necessarily LEAD his team.

2. A guy who leads his team to glory, but doesn't necessarily win a lot of hardware or dominate games.

It's very rare to get a player who does both and Messier was that type of player.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I had a thread about Gretzky earlier, and now i have to ask about Messier.

Just like Gretzky, Messier was a stud for the Oilers.

But what type of impact did Messier had with you guys?

Is Messier considered to be one of the best Rangers ever?

Would Messier be a force in todays NHL (if in prime)?

Mess was one of the best players ever. We did not get Mess in his prime. He was already around 31. In his prime in this era he would be after Crosby/Ovie. Probably in the Jagr/Malkin area because of his physicality, leadership, points, and all around play.