Mark Messier

[Inferno]

i'll be 100% honest, ive never read any of the books about that team, nor do I plan on it, just because my library at home is full of books I gotta catch up with (im a book-a-holic and im about 45 books in the hole right now....my home looks like an Amazon fulfillment center)...

so ill take your word for it guys...but youre never really going to convince me to like Messier...its not gonna happen..its an opinion, it wont change, so we can agree to disagree.

just dont care for someone jumping down my throat for my stated opinion. i made it clear that its just my opinion, and i dont speak for anyone other than myself.

 

[Elliman]

It's a great read.

I always wondered why Keenan jumped ship so fast and didn't wanna defend his cup. He was an absolute disaster, amazing how Rangers won with him. It was Mess who ended up pulling the strings behind the scenes. Messier was a dirty player and a bully but I don't care. Every team had one, we just had the best one.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

i'll be 100% honest, ive never read any of the books about that team, nor do I plan on it, just because my library at home is full of books I gotta catch up with (im a book-a-holic and im about 45 books in the hole right now....my home looks like an Amazon fulfillment center)...

so ill take your word for it guys...but youre never really going to convince me to like Messier...its not gonna happen..its an opinion, it wont change, so we can agree to disagree.

just dont care for someone jumping down my throat for my stated opinion. i made it clear that its just my opinion, and i dont speak for anyone other than myself.

You're completely entitled to your opinion. And I'm not trying to change it.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

It's a great read.

I always wondered why Keenan jumped ship so fast and didn't wanna defend his cup. He was an absolute disaster, amazing how Rangers won with him. It was Mess who ended up pulling the strings behind the scenes. Messier was a dirty player and a bully but I don't care. Every team had one, we just had the best one.

Absolutely. Messier kept that team from falling apart at the seams.

 

[Inferno]

It's a great read.

I always wondered why Keenan jumped ship so fast and didn't wanna defend his cup. He was an absolute disaster, amazing how Rangers won with him. It was Mess who ended up pulling the strings behind the scenes. Messier was a dirty player and a bully but I don't care. Every team had one, we just had the best one.

yeah, i was also kinda new to hockey back then, i didnt really start watching it till 1992...keep in mind that my parents are immigrants, im not white, and when i was growing up it was 100% about the Yankees & Mets. My dad used to watch Islander games when I was young, but just because he was fascinated with hockey, not really knowing the game the way basically everyone here does.

so growing up i didnt watch the game the way i do now (obviously.) I was a billion times more into baseball than hockey..but something started to change in 1992...i can remember it clear as day...i was in my uncles house with my cousin, who at the time was maybe 8 years old? and he was playing with some trucks or something with my younger brother and i was watching the tv...and a Rangers game was on TV...i wish I could remember who they were playing, but I remember watching it, for the first time, with clear focus on whats going on, rather than what my dad was watching while i was playing with my voltrons like when i was younger, and being amazed at the skill of the game.

Brian Leetch just made my jaw drop...i just remember thinking to myself, i dont know how he sees what he sees.

 

[JanErixon20]

It's a great read.

I always wondered why Keenan jumped ship so fast and didn't wanna defend his cup. He was an absolute disaster, amazing how Rangers won with him. It was Mess who ended up pulling the strings behind the scenes. Messier was a dirty player and a bully but I don't care. Every team had one, we just had the best one.

I think they wrote there was a timeout called, maybe in the NJ series, where Keenan just stood there and Messier was running the bench.

And to understand how the players felt about him, look at video of his third goal in game six. He skated to the bench and the players were crawling over each other to celebrate with him.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

i'll be 100% honest, ive never read any of the books about that team, nor do I plan on it, just because my library at home is full of books I gotta catch up with (im a book-a-holic and im about 45 books in the hole right now....my home looks like an Amazon fulfillment center)...

so ill take your word for it guys...but youre never really going to convince me to like Messier...its not gonna happen..its an opinion, it wont change, so we can agree to disagree.

just dont care for someone jumping down my throat for my stated opinion. i made it clear that its just my opinion, and i dont speak for anyone other than myself.

Fair enough, but you can't blame people for thinking you're way off base when you admittedly didn't even watch the prime of his career and his first few years with NYR you were barely watching / just started watching hockey.

That's like me saying "I don't like Led Zeppelin and you'll never change my mind!" but I've only heard a couple songs.

IMO you have no reason to have such a strong opinion about something you're not really knowledgable about.

 

[Off Sides]

Opinions will vary depending on how much importance you place on his post-1997 years. A tale of two Messiers, really.

I agree with this, Part one was fun, part two was not much fun.

 

[Inferno]

Fair enough, but you can't blame people for thinking you're way off base when you admittedly didn't even watch the prime of his career and his first few years with NYR you were barely watching / just started watching hockey.

That's like me saying "I don't like Led Zeppelin and you'll never change my mind!" but I've only heard a couple songs.

IMO you have no reason to have such a strong opinion about something you're not really knowledgable about.

first of all..i'll just say this...dont tell me or anyone what they can and cant have an opinion on..you come off sounding like a jerk..

second, im very knowledgeable about messier on the ice with the rangers..just because i didnt see him on the Oilers doesnt mean I dont know him at all. i swear to god you have no idea how pissed off you made me with this entire post and your post before it. extremely arrogant.

blech, forget it. im done here.

 

[Captain Lindy]

I never liked him until the 1984 playoffs when he and the Oilers stopped the Isles "drive for five". He became my hero ever since then and I knew when, many years later, the rumors were flying of him wanting to come to NY that if our team was ever to win a cup again it would be Mess who could finally do the job. He is and will always be my number one sports hero of all time. That is all.

Edited to add: Mess has the heart of a champion; THE one man who could overcome "the curse".

 

[mike14]

Mess is my favourite player ever.
We went on a family holiday to the US in Dec 93 -Jan 94 and i talked my dad into taking me to a hockey game on night in LA. The only thing i knew about hockey was that there was thus guy named Gretzky and he was basically a god and the best player ever...
The game just happened to be LA vs the Rangers, and as Gretzky was a King i figured they were the better team and so cheered for the Rangers as the underdog. I had no idea what was happening most of the time but #11 for the Rangers was just this beast of player, hitting everyone and scoring a goal. The Rangers won in OT and my love of the Rangers and Mess was born.
As soon as they announced his jersey retirement i moved heaven and earth to make sure that i could get a ticketand flew over to the Sates again just for that game.
Yeah he was dirty, yeah he played for too long, but IMO he is an excellent example of the kind tough, ruthless sports person that you wantto mould your game and character on. It something that seems to be overloomed on a lot of HF, but his skill was immense as well

20 odd years later and I have a huge frame with messier pics and pucks in it hanging on my hallway wall. The mum of one of my son's friends comes around to our house for the first time and as she walks past squeals out "oh, i love hockey" (you never hear this in Aust) and turns for a better look, "oh" shes says again soundinb disappointed instead of excited, "I'm a canucks fan..."

 

[Dagoon44]

Great players adapt. People always say how players like Messier, Stevens, etc would struggle in today's game because they played too dirty. Please. They had buckets of talent and would have adapted. Look at OV. He plays a great physical game, and aside from a few incidents, keeps it clean.

Your so wrong on this point and let tell you why..
Messier was the perfect blue print for intimidation.. He fought he took runs at players and he used his stick as a weapon.. He used his mean streak to open the ice. He used his fists to intimate and in todays game he would be a good skater and leader but his mean streak would have him suspended more then on the ice.. Please don't say he would change because changing Messier would mean ruining Messier.. He would scare the crap out of his own teammates and try to take players heads off in practice. I know Mark and spent many nights working for him and his family I love mark.. He would be a good player at any time but never in 2016 would he be great..

 

[Leetch66]

Some people are born leaders....Messier was that type of player . Many have tried and failed...but he and his teammates prevailed. 94 was only because of Messier....amazed at how some have forgotten that already .Speaking from the perspective of a 43 year fan....I have not forgot . When he stepped on the ice....everybody played harder .

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

Your so wrong on this point and let tell you why..
Messier was the perfect blue print for intimidation.. He fought he took runs at players and he used his stick as a weapon.. He used his mean streak to open the ice. He used his fists to intimate and in todays game he would be a good skater and leader but his mean streak would have him suspended more then on the ice.. Please don't say he would change because changing Messier would mean ruining Messier.. He would scare the crap out of his own teammates and try to take players heads off in practice. I know Mark and spent many nights working for him and his family I love mark.. He would be a good player at any time but never in 2016 would he be great..

or... the second greatest POINT scorer of all-time... WOULD be great in any era.

This is such a silly thing to say. It's not like this was WWE and Earl Hebner was reffing the games while Messier steel-chaired goalies and slid the puck into the empty net.

We'll never know the exact answer, but I think it's foolish to proclaim so exuberantly that a guy who scored more points than every single other player to ever play in the NHL not named Wayne Gretzky wouldn't be great in today's game.

You're also focusing on the negatives (he couldn't be as physical / dirty and would've been suspended for some of the things he did) yet not giving the benefit that all players in today's game get that he never had: sport science, the equipment, the sticks, the fitness, the diet, the training, the two-line pass, etc.

Don't forget there were just as many guys slashing, hacking, hooking and holding Messier then too- The only difference is those guys didn't score 1700+ points. If Messier didn't have to deal with being hooked, slashed, and held his entire career, who knows how many more points he could've produced.

Do you see how the argument goes both ways?

Close this thread, please. This is getting ridiculous and pointless.

 

[Vinny]

Speaking from the perspective of a 43 year fan

Because most here have a opinion while they where ten years old back then. I watched every saturday the Oilers in their prime. Messier was absolutely awesome. Dirty player, bully what is that for talk? He was a superstar above that. And him coming to the Rangers made me a Rangers fan.

He is my all time favorite, nobody comes close.

 

[RangerBoy]

Messier was my favorite non-Ranger player as a little boy. My friends loved Gretzky,Mario,Stevie Yzerman,etc. I loved the way he played. Speed,skill and tough. Dirty at times. It's OK to wear the black hat at times. He played in every situation. He did everything.

 

[JanErixon20]

Mess is my favourite player ever.
We went on a family holiday to the US in Dec 93 -Jan 94 and i talked my dad into taking me to a hockey game on night in LA. The only thing i knew about hockey was that there was thus guy named Gretzky and he was basically a god and the best player ever...
The game just happened to be LA vs the Rangers, and as Gretzky was a King i figured they were the better team and so cheered for the Rangers as the underdog. I had no idea what was happening most of the time but #11 for the Rangers was just this beast of player, hitting everyone and scoring a goal. The Rangers won in OT and my love of the Rangers and Mess was born.
As soon as they announced his jersey retirement i moved heaven and earth to make sure that i could get a ticketand flew over to the Sates again just for that game.
Yeah he was dirty, yeah he played for too long, but IMO he is an excellent example of the kind tough, ruthless sports person that you wantto mould your game and character on. It something that seems to be overloomed on a lot of HF, but his skill was immense as well

20 odd years later and I have a huge frame with messier pics and pucks in it hanging on my hallway wall. The mum of one of my son's friends comes around to our house for the first time and as she walks past squeals out "oh, i love hockey" (you never hear this in Aust) and turns for a better look, "oh" shes says again soundinb disappointed instead of excited, "I'm a canucks fan..."

Classic game. Rangers get a penalty shot in the last seconds as Tony Granato jumped off the bench to stop Tony Amonte from getting a breakaway. Amonte is stopped. Ensuing face off, Messier scores.

 

[Edge]

IMO Messier, at the very least, was the most important Ranger of the modern era.

From a playing standpoint he was the type of guy who could take over a game by himself, and he did it in a number of ways - timely goals, playmaking, physical play, etc.

One cannot underestimate the impact that Messier had on this entire organization. He changed the culture, brought swagger and demanded excellence.

Without Messier, we don't talk about Graves, Leetch and Richter the way we do. He not only elevated those guys, he instilled a mindset in them that transformed their approach to the game.

He took on the baggage, he took on the "curse" and he never backed down. It's hard to even put that into context by today's standards --- that weight that was on this franchise.

I think he'd be a star today, though certain elements of his game would change. But while people talk about the leadership, the intimidation, the stare, etc., they almost forget that Messier was a damn good hockey player too. He was an excellent skater, saw the ice very well and adapted to situations as needed.

 

[007]

I was never the biggest fan of Messier, in the sense that he wasn't my favourite player on those '92-'97 teams (there were always one or two guys I liked more), but I would never doubt his influence on the team, or that 1994 would not have happened without him. In fact, in recent years, I've come to understand his outsize role on that team even more. What really made me turn the corner and appreciate his importance, was not the interviews with Brian Leetch and Adam Graves, who never miss an opportunity to try to explain how influential he was, but one I read with Mike Richter. The interview was as much about Richter's current career as it was about hockey, but he spoke a few words about Messier that really hammered home how incredibly valuable he was.

Some will always say that Messier was a better player on the ice with the Oilers, he may well have been, but it was with the Rangers that he made his legend. He'd always have been at least slightly in Gretzky's shadow, if he hadn't led a different team to the Cup.

I think he'd be a star today, though certain elements of his game would change.

Would that be the sticks to the face or the elbows to the nose?

Every time I see a forward skate down the off wing and zip a wristshot towards the top corner, whether it goes in or not, I automatically think "Mess did that better than anyone."

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

I remember Paul Kariya saying when he didn't have a lot of time/space, he'd often just shoot for the center of the net because he was most likely going to miss / be off a little bit and maybe find a hole or a corner.

I feel like streaking down that right wing, Messier's "just hit the net" default shot was off the far post and in.

He was more talented than some are giving him credit for. And I tend to give the 2nd leading scorer of all time the benefit of the doubt that if he played today, he'd be able to adjust certain aspects of his game. I don't think he'd be trying to elbow people and only playing 20 games every season because he was suspended all the time. He'd be an incredible impact player in any era. There's really no basis for any argument otherwise to stand on, IMO.

 

[Captain Lindy]

Some people are born leaders....Messier was that type of player . Many have tried and failed...but he and his teammates prevailed. 94 was only because of Messier....amazed at how some have forgotten that already .Speaking from the perspective of a 43 year fan....I have not forgot . When he stepped on the ice....everybody played harder .

I agree. Plus, I believe what you so very well described is why I believe he would make a great coach.

 

[OldBlueshirt]

No Messier, then we're talking 76 years and counting

IMO Messier, at the very least, was the most important Ranger of the modern era.

From a playing standpoint he was the type of guy who could take over a game by himself, and he did it in a number of ways - timely goals, playmaking, physical play, etc.

One cannot underestimate the impact that Messier had on this entire organization. He changed the culture, brought swagger and demanded excellence.

Without Messier, we don't talk about Graves, Leetch and Richter the way we do. He not only elevated those guys, he instilled a mindset in them that transformed their approach to the game.

He took on the baggage, he took on the "curse" and he never backed down. It's hard to even put that into context by today's standards --- that weight that was on this franchise.

I think he'd be a star today, though certain elements of his game would change. But while people talk about the leadership, the intimidation, the stare, etc., they almost forget that Messier was a damn good hockey player too. He was an excellent skater, saw the ice very well and adapted to situations as needed.

I couldn't have said it better. As someone who's seen so-called "messiahs" come and go at MSG since the late 70s, before and after #11's time, I can say he's the real deal. He's your prototypical player who struck fear in the opposition. Look at our current offense. Would ANY of them scare you if you're a present-day D-man in terms of attitude, scoring, physicality? Regarding game 6 in the ECF against the Devs, people tend to forget Messier assisted on Kovi's goal just before the 2nd intermission, otherwise we'd be down 2-0 going into the final period. Can you imagine the uplift they had to get from finally scoring on Marty at that point? It gave them the belief they could complete the comeback in the 3rd. Messier's surreal hat trick overshadows Kovi's critical goal, but once again, it's all because of
#11.

 

[Black Tank]

I'm closing in on 50 now and have memories of Rangers games from when I was about 6 on. I saw a lot of great Rangers teams and lot of great Rangers players in all those years. And they all ultimately led to heartache.

All of them. Every single one of those great teams and great players broke my ****ing heart.

And then that glorious 93-94 season, the sense of invincibility, the brilliance of Leetch, Graves, Richter and others and the sheer forcefulness of Messier.

I only doubted in the second intermission of game 6 against the Devils. I was with my brother and told him I was done, that this was one more ****ing choke job to add to our decades long list. He told me nothing is over yet... And of course Messier delivered.

After that game, I didn't give a **** about anything anymore because I knew our time had come.

For me it's not even close, Messier is my favorite player and the greatest Ranger to ever wear the jersey. And my oldest son is named after him for that reason.

 

[JanErixon20]

I'm closing in on 50 now and have memories of Rangers games from when I was about 6 on. I saw a lot of great Rangers teams and lot of great Rangers players in all those years. And they all ultimately led to heartache.

All of them. Every single one of those great teams and great players broke my ****ing heart.

And then that glorious 93-94 season, the sense of invincibility, the brilliance of Leetch, Graves, Richter and others and the sheer forcefulness of Messier.

I only doubted in the second intermission of game 6 against the Devils. I was with my brother and told him I was done, that this was one more ****ing choke job to add to our decades long list. He told me nothing is over yet... And of course Messier delivered.

After that game, I didn't give a **** about anything anymore because I knew our time had come.

For me it's not even close, Messier is my favorite player and the greatest Ranger to ever wear the jersey. And my oldest son is named after him for that reason.

I didn't watch game 6 at all. I couldn't take watching them lose AGAIN. I went to my then girlfriend's house, who didn't have SportsChannel. Her little brother was listening on his Walkman. I followed the game through his reactions. After they went up 3-2, we put the game on her stereo and listened to the ending.

Along the same lines, when they went down 2-0 to TB, I shut the game off with 7 minutes to go. I knew they weren't scoring. I wasn't watching them fail again.

 

[yrrebbor]

Mark Messier came to NYC and promised us a stanley cup and he delivered. No other Ranger in my lifetime achieved that.

This.

He was a warhorse. And a HUGE bully. Probably the most famous superstar bully in the history of hockey.

He was OUR bully.

Mark would have never been Given the chance to develop in today's NHL the fact that the physicality of the games been completely taken away and he was a borderline dirty player and his first years he never would've been as successful in today's game

Such a shame that every NHL player is a wimp nowadays.