Marc Bergevin - Kickstart My Heart Edition

[417]

He was an actual train wreck on skates......I've seen quite a few Sabre highlights and it looks like he picked up there right where he left off here. What makes this so tragic is that he was a mid round 1st rounder that could skate and would bring offence.....he brought the skating.....(tumbleweed through the nuclear village in the Nevada desert).....cue the Good, the Bad and the Ugly sound effect

Wahahahahahahaha.....wa...wa.....waaaaaa lol

I certainly didn't mind his trading for a 3rd round pick...I'm surprised he got anyone to give him anything for him.

Only wish he had cut bait sooner, might of been able to get more.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Well, here's another funny way of "building through the draft". here are the folks who have started for us this year:

Weber - Trade via a player we drafted AND developed.
Alzner - Free agent.
Petry - Trade for picks.
Benn - Trade for pick and Pateryn, who we drafted though I guess we can argue did not fully develop.
Davidson - Trade by giving Edmonton our #1C
Morrow - Free agent.
Schlemko - Trade for pick.
Mete - Drafted by us and now on the roster (we'll see if he is here end of the week).

So, if "building through the draft" means getting rid of picks for players or trading the ones we did, then I guess MB did as he said he would.

Just to specify on Pateryn, Habs didn't draft him, Leafs did. He was part of the trade that sent Grabovski to Leafs.

 

[jaffy27]

I certainly didn't mind his trading for a 3rd round pick...I'm surprised he got anyone to give him anything for him.

Only wish he had cut bait sooner, might of been able to get more.

If bergevin soiled the bed with Beaulieu, is that he didn't trade him soon enough, like Plekanec, so true

 

[417]

If bergevin soiled the bed with Beaulieu, is that he didn't trade him soon enough, like Plekanec, so true

Don't wind me up Jaffy lol

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't think so but that's just my opinion, I just was fed up with him.

That's fine, but he had skills. He's another guy we didn't develop well. At the very least he's a decent 3rd pairing guy who can log minutes on the 2nd.

 

[417]

That's fine, but he had skills. He's another guy we didn't develop well. At the very least he's a decent 3rd pairing guy who can log minutes on the 2nd.

Seems you're contradicting yourself...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Seems you're contradicting yourself...

Nope.

 

[417]

Nope.

Well let's see...

On one hand..

You're saying we didn't develop him well

On the other.

You're saying he's a decent 3rd pairing Dman who can log 2nd pairing minutes.

For a mid 1st round pick...that's not a terrible thing. He doesn't have 1st pairing talent, he never did, not even when he was drafted were the highest expectations for him to be a #1-2 dman...

He is what he is...3rd pairing dman who teases you into believing he can play 2nd pairing, but doesn't have enough consistency to maintain it.

He's developed into the best Dman he can be...he is what he is. There's nothing more there...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well let's see...

On one hand..

You're saying we didn't develop him well

On the other.

You're saying he's a decent 3rd pairing Dman who can log 2nd pairing minutes.

For a mid 1st round pick...that's not a terrible thing. He doesn't have 1st pairing talent, he never did, not even when he was drafted were the highest expectations for him to be a #1-2 dman...

He is what he is...3rd pairing dman who teases you into believing he can play 2nd pairing, but doesn't have enough consistency to maintain it.

He's developed into the best Dman he can be...he is what he is. There's nothing more there...

Alex Galchenyuk can be a decent 2nd line center. That doesn't mean we developed him well either.

 

[417]

Alex Galchenyuk can be a decent 2nd line center. That doesn't mean we developed him well either.

I'm not talking about Galchenyuk...I'm talking about Nathan Beaulieu.

Do you recall what his draft projection was?

I do, I certainly don't recall anyone suggesting he was going to be a #1Dman.

If he was projected as #1Dman, he wouldn't of lasted to #17...he dropped because despite having some talent, there were questions marks about his hockey sense and maturity.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm not talking about Galchenyuk...I'm talking about Nathan Beaulieu.

My point stands.

 

[Belial]

Bob Gainey's draft history 2003 - 2009

Ryan O'Byrne (2003) in NHL 2007 = 4 years
Mark Streit (2004) in NHL 2005 = 1 year
Alexei Emelin (2004) in NHL 2011 = 7 years
Yannick Weber (2007) in NHL 2010 = 3 years
PK Subban (2007) in NHL 2010 = 3 years
Ryan McDonagh (2007) in NHL 2010 = 3 years

Average: 3.5 years to NHL

Perhaps the draft/development under Bergevin is just not that good.

Your average is useless because Streit was drafted when he was 26 years old...

O'Byrne became regular after 6 seasons not 4.

And again, I told you the only D they drafted in 2012 and 2013 is Thrower and his career was scraped by injuries.

The next D that was drafted by this regime is Lernout and he's progressing decently.

And then you have Juulsen who was drafted in 2015, even with your biased average he's supposed to make the team in 19/20.

 

[DAChampion]

Beaulieu's median ice time in Buffalo is 19:25 minutes, though he's playing less recently.

 

[417]

My point stands.

Oh...this routine again.

Got it.

 

[417]

Beaulieu's median ice time in Buffalo is 19:25 minutes, though he's playing less recently.

Yes - the Buffalo Sabres are getting to know ol' Nate dog like we eventually did.

At the very least, he's an OK 3rd pairing guy...and you can do much worse than that.

 

[Frank Drebin]

If Nathan Beaulieu is on your 3rd pairing, you've got a very good D.

I'm sure he was on our third pair from the tdl on last season?

 

[Habs Halifax]

From 2012 - 2017 our 1st/2nd round pick draft/development under Bergevin is mediocre at best compared to rest of the NHL. They even had two top 10 picks. All they have to show for it is Galchenyuk and Lehkonen. Under Gainey from 2003 - 2009, there was FAR more success with same amount of top 10 picks (Kostitsyn/Price).

Mediocre based on what? If you study where the Habs have drafted year after year, we are not mediocre and you have provided no evidence. I guess we are mediocre compared to the Leafs and Oilers, you got me there Your standards are comparing us to top 10 teams in prospect rankings. It's foolish to compare us to those teams that have drafted in the top 10 more than us and have won draft lotteries.

Based on where we have drafted, we have done fine. I never said we were elite. I said we have improved our prospect pool from where it was at in 2012 and I provided some pretty hard core evidence to prove it.

 

[Leafsmann]

There is no plan. Hasn't been one for 5 years. If there was one, what is it?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes - the Buffalo Sabres are getting to know ol' Nate dog like we eventually did.

At the very least, he's an OK 3rd pairing guy...and you can do much worse than that.

Beaulieu is better than Benn. Considering our bottom 4D depth is very bad, Beaulieu would be a good to have on our 3rd pairing.

 

[417]

Beaulieu is better than Benn. Considering our bottom 4D depth is very bad, Beaulieu would be a good to have on our 3rd pairing.

Meh...I guess, I don't know if he's 2.5M for the next 2yrs vs 840K better than Benn.

But sure.

Either way, splitting hairs over who is less bad is not something I personally care for.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not going to disagree with most of your assessment, but here's a way to look at this. We can debate if he inherited a great core or not. The point is the core he inherited, he re-signed and kept (or let go... dress this however you want). It's been his FA signings since, trades and drafts. We can argue the team on the ice today is HIS vision, his team.

A cup contender in 6 years may have not been reasonable (though I think it was obtainable), but i don't think it is unreasonable to expect a competitive team? I mean, even if he inherited absolute crap, in 6-years, we should be trending upwards by now.

Sure, we can still turn this around, but man, it is gonna be rough trying to win ~46 of our remaining games.

There is not much any GM can do if we have a bad prospect pool and when a guy like Carter or RyJo becomes available, we are trying to acquire them with what? Guys drafted in the 20+ spot in the 1st round? We drafted Galchenyuk and that was a solid pick at 3rd overall. However, he didn't turn into the center we need. Who was the best center from that draft year? I'm curious?

Our problem was we didn't draft in the top 10 enough. Yeah, you can find top 2 centers outside of the top 10 but they are rare. We had interesting pieces but none at center. This is why we were able to accomplish a top 10 regular season spot but then once the going got rough in the playoffs, we failed due to terrible soft centers who can't drive the play.

 

[Belial]

Beaulieu is better than Benn. Considering our bottom 4D depth is very bad, Beaulieu would be a good to have on our 3rd pairing.

Did you miss the end of last season? Benn outplayed Beaulieu and it was not even close. He doesn't look good right now but he was better than Beaulieu last season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Meh...I guess, I don't know if he's 2.5M for the next 2yrs vs 840K better than Benn.

But sure.

Either way, splitting hairs over who is less bad is not something I personally care for.

Beaulieu is better than Benn. We should of protected Beaulieu and took our chances with Emelin and Benn. At least we would of retained 2 of the 3. However, I agree it's doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things but I think Bergevin was in error not protecting Beaulieu. He is incontinent but look at Gardner with the Leafs? It took him a while but he has become a good defenseman for the Leafs at age 27. Beaulieu is still only 24 and has room to grow yet.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Beaulieu is better than Benn. We should of protected Beaulieu and took our chances with Emelin and Benn. At least we would of retained 2 of the 3. However, I agree it's doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things but I think Bergevin was in error not protecting Beaulieu. He is incontinent but look at Gardner with the Leafs? It took him a while but he has become a good defenseman for the Leafs at age 27. Beaulieu is still only 24 and has room to grow yet.

The fact that we protected Benn is a joke. The fact that we gave Beau away is even worse. We have a horrific D right now. Letting go of Markov was a disastrous move and I'm not sure wtf our GM was thinking.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Did you miss the end of last season? Benn outplayed Beaulieu and it was not even close. He doesn't look good right now but he was better than Beaulieu last season.

No, I didn't miss it. Protecting Benn over Beaulieu was a bad move. Come on man!