Management dysfunction - The mess Katz made

[bone]

Why would there be a need to have a coup (which I doubt really is happening) if Chia did a good job?

We're in this position because he blew it with two horrendous trades primarily that have altered the future of the franchise. And that's hard to admit, it's much easier just to say "well ... uh ... blame ... Gretzky".

I'm not blaming Gretzky, I'm just saying that if you hire a GM and POHO, you let them do that job and not usurp them on the basis of drunk former players telling you to do something else.

I can't believe I'm coming across supportive of Chia, because I absolute despise basically all of his moves since the Maroon acquisition. But I don't want a committee of drunk ex-players calling the shots.

Perhaps the article is all bunk, and if so, fine let's go back to criticizing Chia. I'm cool with that, but if there is any truth to this group forcing ex-players into the staff that is even worse than living with poor calls from our current GM.

 

[McDNicks17]

I feel like we're jumping the gun here.

I don't think speculation from two guys who are worse at their job than anyone in the Oilers organization in any way confirms this conspiracy theory.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm not blaming Gretzky, I'm just saying that if you hire a GM and POHO, you let them do that job and not usurp them on the basis of drunk former players telling you to do something else.

I can't believe I'm coming across supportive of Chia, because I absolute despise basically all of his moves since the Maroon acquisition. But I don't want a committee of drunk ex-players calling the shots.

Perhaps the article is all bunk, and if so, fine let's go back to criticizing Chia. I'm cool with that, but if there is any truth to this group forcing ex-players into the staff that is even worse than living with poor calls from our current GM.

The team is bad because Chia did everything Bruins fans warned us he would do. Trade away talented players for pennies on the dollar, load up on low talent grinder tier players, and overpay on virtually every contract leaving the team with no cap room.

We were all told this in April 2015 ... we didn't want to believe it and wanted to give him a chance. We're gonna lie now and act like we weren't told all this? We knew what we were getting into.

Well he's done exactly what we were warned about. Now we're gonna say "well ... he was forced to uh ... forced to uh ... hire Coffey! YEAH! THAT'S THE PROBLEM!".

Gimme a break guys. Paul Coffey is not the issue. That's the least of the issues on the Oilers.

 

[guymez]

I'm not blaming Gretzky, I'm just saying that if you hire a GM and POHO, you let them do that job and not usurp them on the basis of drunk former players telling you to do something else.

I can't believe I'm coming across supportive of Chia, because I absolute despise basically all of his moves since the Maroon acquisition. But I don't want a committee of drunk ex-players calling the shots.

Perhaps the article is all bunk, and if so, fine let's go back to criticizing Chia. I'm cool with that, but if there is any truth to this group forcing ex-players into the staff that is even worse than living with poor calls from our current GM.

I think that there is too much fire around the reported OBC Wine Summit discussions to dismiss it.

As I said in another thread these reports pretty much validate what myself and others have thought since he bought the team.
I have kept quiet about my opinions on Katz for the last 3 years in an effort to try and enjoy watching hockey more and especially in terms of McDavid and what he brings.
That being said this recent information is just too much to ignore IMO.

 

[guymez]

I feel like we're jumping the gun here.

I don't think speculation from two guys who are worse at their job than anyone in the Oilers organization in any way confirms this conspiracy theory.

Do you not agree that it opens the door for discussion?

Lord knows there have been topics with a lot less supporting information that have exploded on here.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't even think Gretzky or Coffey even want full time positions. You guys act like Edmonton is some glamour market and they're dying to be here 8 months of the year including the winter.

I don't think so. They don't need that shit or the criticism that comes with it, they have comfortable lives.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Heres the logic I'm seeing in the thread.

Past theories; Oilers are awful, blame past management, blame OBC. Get new blood in at the higher rungs of the org, completely new coaching, blow it up, start over.

Last season: Oilers perform well, cited as proof that all the org changes were successful, that the org was resurrected, everything is great, everything positive. No reason to question anything.

During this season; Everything is fine, nothing is burning, everything fine. (repeat thousand times)

Exit this season; Oilers were awful, blame past management, blame OBC despite all new leadership and complete new coaching in place. Blame Katz, blame OBC, blame something other than those in current charge of the org.



Yeah, theres some inconsistency in the expressed narratives.

This thread is cognitive dissonance and denial defined.

Could be that the current incumbents in charge of this team just aren't all that good. A theme that has been consistently expressed by myself and others.

 

[McDNicks17]

Do you not agree that it opens the door for discussion?

Lord knows there have been topics with a lot less supporting information that have exploded on here.

Sure, it's open for discussion, but it's just going to be speculation based on other speculation.

I think discussions would be a little more worthwhile if someone like Spector or Rishaug actually presented some facts to support the theory.

At this point, they're obviously just exploiting a pretty common worry among the fan base to get some attention and clicks.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Do you not agree that it opens the door for discussion?

Lord knows there have been topics with a lot less supporting information that have exploded on here.

What supporting information? That Katz is trying to make the team fail? I mean what is your actual theory and premise. Its not even discernible.

 

[guymez]

Sure, it's open for discussion, but it's just going to be speculation based on other speculation.

I think discussions would be a little more worthwhile if someone like Spector or Rishaug actually presented some facts to support the theory.

Perhaps more will come out...its early.

In any event your criteria would eliminate most of the threads on this board.

Why are you applying that criteria here?

 

[Soundwave]

Heres the logic I'm seeing in the thread.

Past theories; Oilers are awful, blame past management, blame OBC. Get new blood in at the higher rungs of the org, completely new coaching, blow it up, start over.

Last season: Oilers perform well, cited as proof that all the org changes were successful, that the org was resurrected, everything is great, everything positive. No reason to question anything.

During this season; Everything is fine, nothing is burning, everything fine. (repeat thousand times)

Exit this season; Oilers were awful, blame past management, blame OBC despite all new leadership and complete new coaching in place. Blame Katz, blame OBC, blame something other than those in current charge of the org.



Yeah, theres some inconsistency in the expressed narratives.

This thread is cognitive dissonance and denial defined.

Could be that the current incumbents in charge of this team just aren't all that good. A theme that has been consistently expressed by myself and others.

The logic really is that "Well Peter must be a good GM because last year was good and we decided 100% that things like the Hall trade were a win for us". Lots of us argued hard for this team on the main boards and are invested hardcore into the company line.

And I get that. I wanted Peter to do a good job too, I wanted to believe a lot of that stuff too.

Moving off this logic is a painful truth for some people to accept so it's easier to be in denial about it.

It's easier now to say "yeah, this is Gretzky or Coffey's fault". lol. These guys don't even do anything nor do I think even really want any kind of full time position here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't even think Gretzky or Coffey even want full time positions. You guys act like Edmonton is some glamour market and they're dying to be here 8 months of the year including the winter.

I don't think so. They don't need that **** or the criticism that comes with it, they have comfortable lives.

Its nostalgia. Most people at a certain age are attracted to the scene and memory of the best time in their lives. For the OBC that was obviously here, and in the 80's. I had hoped it would have died down a bit in the transition to Rogers place but it seems as if the swanky new arena is more attractive for the OBC to play in. But mostly I think the OBC are just here having some fun, hijinx, reliving the past. Its really what most of them have done since but even moreso as they age.

I don't think theres too much going on here from the OBC other than getting freebies and maybe some new cheques out of this for doing very little. Really I doubt any of them even want much responsibility respective to the current club. I view their presence more as just something to do.

 

[Soundwave]

The power structure in the organization was pretty clearly stated by Nicholson yesterday. Peter runs all the hockey ops. He can take opinions from his vice chairs, but the final call is his. Peter is running the evaluation of the coaches. Peter makes the final call. Peter is the one with a plan.

 

[PBandJ]

Definitely sounds like things are an absolute mess behind the scenes. I'd be stunned if Chiarelli has ever actually had full autonomy with Gretzky, Lowe, MacT and Coffey breathing down his neck.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The Red Wine Summits. LMAO.

Some of the most surreal **** I've ever read.

Is this actually real life?

It's a small place. When Roger's clears out the underlings (reporters/etc.) hang around the edges and as the indentured servants of old, they hear/see things and gossip. Only a matter of time till some such designation was attached.

 

[McDNicks17]

Perhaps more will come out...its early.

In any event your criteria would eliminate most of the threads on this board.

Why are you applying that criteria here?

I'm not shutting down the discussion. Just cautioning people to really think about what they're reading.

There's already enough things wrong with the organization. We don't really need to mobilize an army to go after Katz/Gretzky/etc. just based on an inkling and speculation from "journalists".

 

[Soundwave]

Its nostalgia. Most people at a certain age are attracted to the scene and memory of the best time in their lives. For the OBC that was obviously here, and in the 80's. I had hoped it would have died down a bit in the transition to Rogers place but it seems as if the swanky new arena is more attractive for the OBC to play in. But mostly I think the OBC are just here having some fun, hijinx, reliving the past. Its really what most of them have done since but even moreso as they age.

I don't think theres too much going on here from the OBC other than getting freebies and maybe some new cheques out of this for doing very little. Really I doubt any of them even want much responsibility respective to the current club. I view their presence more as just something to do.

I think you're kidding yourself though if you think these guys are dying to come back here full time and live here again. Look Edmonton is a nice city, but once you've gotten used to living in LA or New York or some where else it's not really a place anyone with money would probably put high on their list to come back to (or really anywhere in the Canadian prairies, lets be honest).

That's just the reality. These guys are legends, they don't need this. Come in 4-5 times a year and sit in a swanky luxury box? Sure. Be here as a permanent fixture on the team? No way. They don't need that. If Coffey was dying for a job here and scheming to get it he would've been around the team every day, instead he was here like for 3 practices?

 

[guymez]

I'm not shutting down the discussion. Just cautioning people to really think about what they're reading.

There's already enough things wrong with the organization. We don't really need to mobilize an army to go after Katz/Gretzky/etc. just based on an inkling and speculation from "journalists".

So again...why the cautions here when I havent seen you apply that in any other thread.

This is purely discussion. No mention of mobilizing anything.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think you're kidding yourself though if you think these guys are dying to come back here full time and live here again. Look Edmonton is a nice city, but once you've gotten used to living in LA or New York or some where else it's not really a place anyone with money would probably put high on their list to come back to (or really anywhere in the Canadian prairies, lets be honest).

That's just the reality. These guys are legends, they don't need this. Come in 4-5 times a year and sit in a swanky luxury box? Sure. Be here as a permanent fixture on the team? No way. They don't need that. If Coffey was dying for a job here and scheming to get it he would've been around the team every day, instead he was here like for 3 practices?

It might just be that the new arena is a bit of fun, that some of the players are feeling some empty nest at home, and its a chance to visit and connect with their old brethren while watching the latest version of the country club and with free food and drinks and some signed cheques for doing much of nothing.

Lets not forget almost all these guys were not great at managing their finances. Its been a longtime since some of these guys were getting any hockey cheques.

No, I don't think any of them will want to live here.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

So we have the predictable duplicitous posters posting in a thread (and liking posts in the thread) and then questioning the purpose of the thread by cluttering it with odd posts....lol

Sounds like a potential applicant for Oilers Management.

Welcome to the light. Was the dark side fun?

 

[belair]

The logic really is that "Well Peter must be a good GM because last year was good and we decided 100% that things like the Hall trade were a win for us". Lots of us argued hard for this team on the main boards and are invested hardcore into the company line.

Moving off this logic is a painful truth for some people to accept so it's easier to be in denial about it.

It's easier now to say "yeah, this is Gretzky or Coffey's fault". lol. These guys don't even do anything nor do I think even really want any kind of full time position here.

You're missing the point of Spec's article. This isn't 'the Oilers are bad because' narrative. This is pointing out something blatantly obvious to many here. The OBC-era Oilers were kept on after their vomit-worthy final season to essentially protect their images within the fan-base. All of these guys want a hand in this team when things head upward. It's why I take every opportunity to tell you how much of a cluster-f*** this team was after they were done with it in every aspect and how its direct result is a current lack of depth organizationally today. Kevin Lowe and MacT have succeeded shattering their pariah images in short order because someone else took the liberty of trying to fix their decade old mess and address needs they never took the initiative to address. It was like clockwork. Those guys were never going to admit to failure. They were going to fade into the background and only emerge when things went rosy for the franchise. Where was the country club atmosphere before McDavid got here?

 

[guymez]

Definitely sounds like things are an absolute mess behind the scenes. I'd be stunned if Chiarelli has ever actually had full autonomy with Gretzky, Lowe, MacT and Coffey breathing down his neck.

Thanks for posting this. I dont think anybody (possibly except McDnicks) is surprised by this tweet.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The power structure in the organization was pretty clearly stated by Nicholson yesterday. Peter runs all the hockey ops. He can take opinions from his vice chairs, but the final call is his. Peter is running the evaluation of the coaches. Peter makes the final call. Peter is the one with a plan.

Yeah, yesterday Nicholson basically stated Chia has carte blanche. That's the real news

yet today some other tidbits by Rishaug or Spector and we're not in Kansas anymore..

I mean people here don't even think Rishaug or Spector have credibility any other time..

Except if its to engage in confirmation bias deflecting any criticism of the people here ACTUALLY in charge.

 

[rboomercat90]

I’m amazed people are surprised this is going on. I called this the day it was revealed Lowe and company were sticking around after Chiarelli was hired. How else was this going to turn out?

 

[guymez]

Welcome to the light. Was the dark side fun?

Actually I really did enjoy last season.
The success made it easy to overlook Katz and his OBC. I was perfectly willing to overlook it this season as well but there is far too much smoke around this now.