Management dysfunction - The mess Katz made

[guymez]

The Red Wine Summits. LMAO.

Some of the most surreal **** I've ever read.

Is this actually real life?

Red Wine Summit...perfect.

This situation is just so sad.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Pick your poison - cheap, ******* of an owner who has multiple reports come out that he is a nightmare to work for and constantly meddles with hockey ops OR
Deep pockets owner who has an infatuation with the 80s Oilers to the point that he just continually adds them to the management team and adds more and more dysfunctional to this mess of a organization. I think Katz is still slightly better because there aren't any reports of him openly insulting his staff yet, and we haven't lost players due to cost...but man. What a mess.

True but whose calling the shots here, Katz and Gretz or Nicholson and Chiarelli? In Ottawa, and now Carolina, the owners are calling the shots. At least the rest of the org knows what to expect.

To me we have the owner and his OBC enablers trying to influence control over Nicholson and Chiarelli. A bad year and Katz is right back to the OBC heroin.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Red Wine Summit...perfect.

This situation is just so sad.

More like Crack Cocaine.

 

[guymez]

True but whose calling the shots here, Katz and Gretz or Nicholson and Chiarelli? In Ottawa, and now Carolina, the owners are calling the shots. At least the rest of the org knows what to expect.

To me we have the owner and his OBC enablers trying to influence control over Nicholson and Chiarelli. A bad year and Katz is right back to the OBC heroin.

Its funny because the sentimental part of me liked seeing Gretzky being a part of things. I foolishly thought he was just a figurehead (and part of ownership) and not involved in hockey ops.

Katz has created this muddy obscure hierarchy which makes it difficult if not impossible for outsiders (fans and media) to tell who is doing what.

 

[guymez]

Stauffer doing his best at damage control. Down playing the Spector article and his reference to the Red Wine Summit.
Stauffer is basically saying that Coffey wont be hired as an assistant coach.
My guess is that the optics would be too much to overcome. So Stauffer has to now do his best to try and reclaim as much credibility as he can for Katz.

 

[bone]

Its funny because the sentimental part of me liked seeing Gretzky being a part of things. I foolishly thought he was just a figurehead (and part of ownership) and not involved in hockey ops.

Katz has created this muddy obscure hierarchy which makes it difficult if not impossible for outsiders (fans and media) to tell who is doing what.

I was absolutely fine with Gretz as an team ambassador and mentor for Connor, but if he's part of the decision making process we're doomed as he's failed at almost everything else he has done except being one of the best players of all time.

 

[guymez]

I was absolutely fine with Gretz as an team ambassador and mentor for Connor, but if he's part of the decision making process we're doomed as he's failed at almost everything else he has done except being one of the best players of all time.

I agree.
Man...I was sure naive in thinking that Katz had (as Night Witch correctly puts it) kicked his OBC addiction.

 

[Soundwave]

Gretzky hasn't made any of the decisions that have doomed this team. Trying to blame him is rich. I'm fine with having him around the team.

The problem here is the GM. Has always been since 2008 when Katz bought the team. Until they fix that, they are going nowhere.

People trying to now pin this on Gretzky or Coffey ... that's hilarious and so Oilers.

Team sucks because the Reinhart trade and the Hall trade were franchise altering loser bets this team made and it will take some time to recover when you make moves that bad.

Just because you made the playoffs once doesn't mean they weren't bad moves. Calgary traded Brett Hull once upon a time and still won a Cup, that doesn't mean that move didn't have a huge long term impact on that franchise.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Stauffer doing his best at damage control. Down playing the Spector article and his reference to the Red Wine Summit.
Stauffer is basically saying that Coffey wont be hired as an assistant coach.
My guess is that the optics would be too much to overcome. So Stauffer has to now do his best to try and reclaim as much credibility as he can for Katz.

Spec is on in the last half hour, I will be listening to that intently. With Rishaug essentially verifying what Spec wrote this morning, and Stauffer, the Defender of the Realm, it should make for interesting radio. I wonder if it will get as contentious as it did when Spec wrote the article disparaging McDavids defensive game.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Gretzky hasn't made any of the decisions that have doomed this team. Trying to blame him is rich. I'm fine with having him around the team.

The problem here is the GM. Has always been since 2008 when Katz bought the team. Until they fix that, they are going nowhere.

People trying to now pin this on Gretzky or Coffey ... that's hilarious and so Oilers.

Team sucks because the Reinhart trade and the Hall trade were franchise altering loser bets this team made and it will take some time to recover when you make moves that bad.

Just because you made the playoffs once doesn't mean they weren't bad moves. Calgary traded Brett Hull once upon a time and still won a Cup, that doesn't mean that move didn't have a huge long term impact on that franchise.

You are completely missing the point.

 

[guymez]

Spec is on in the last half hour, I will be listening to that intently. With Rishaug essentially verifying what Spec wrote this morning, and Stauffer, the Defender of the Realm, it should make for interesting radio. I wonder if it will get as contentious as it did when Spec wrote the article disparaging McDavids defensive game.

I'll be listening too.
Like him or not at least Spec has the balls to sometimes say things that need to be said.

 

[guymez]

You are completely missing the point.

Thats because it doesn't fit with his broken record narrative.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Gretzky hasn't made any of the decisions that have doomed this team. Trying to blame him is rich. I'm fine with having him around the team.

The problem here is the GM. Has always been since 2008 when Katz bought the team. Until they fix that, they are going nowhere.

People trying to now pin this on Gretzky or Coffey ... that's hilarious and so Oilers.

Team sucks because the Reinhart trade and the Hall trade were franchise altering loser bets this team made and it will take some time to recover when you make moves that bad. Just because you made the playoffs once doesn't mean they weren't bad moves. Calgary traded Brett Hull once upon a time and still won a Cup, that doesn't mean that move didn't have a huge long term impact.

Last I checked Katz was not the one who forced out Sather in a power struggle and then promoted the rookie head coach to rookie GM without looking outside the organization. All to save a few bucks.

One can blame Katz for keeping Lowe, the original OBC member, in power, and yet it's not correct to state that he started the parade.

 

[Drivesaitl]

What is the point of the thread? We have an OP who as recently as a month ago that would defend nearly any act of the org and say that this whole season was just an aberration who now saw fit to write a complete management dysfunction thread. I mean the leap of thought involved is pretty extreme.

So this is what the OP thinks today which almost completely counters thousands of posts by the same poster that run pretty counter to the assessment suddenly arrived at today..

I'm a bit confused by it all.

 

[bone]

Gretzky hasn't made any of the decisions that have doomed this team. Trying to blame him is rich. I'm fine with having him around the team.

The problem here is the GM. Has always been since 2008 when Katz bought the team. Until they fix that, they are going nowhere.

People trying to now pin this on Gretzky or Coffey ... that's hilarious and so Oilers.

Team sucks because the Reinhart trade and the Hall trade were franchise altering loser bets this team made and it will take some time to recover when you make moves that bad.

Just because you made the playoffs once doesn't mean they weren't bad moves. Calgary traded Brett Hull once upon a time and still won a Cup, that doesn't mean that move didn't have a huge long term impact on that franchise.

I actually don't think he has been making the decisions and didn't mean to come across that way. My comments are moreso coming from what appears to have been the coup that started building around January where reading between the lines suggest Gretzky may have been the chair of these summits.

I don't want him anywhere near where decisions are made. Getting his opinion, sure fine, but if he starts to try and push for anything around organizational/player personnel changes, I'd say GTFO.

 

[Soundwave]

The team is bad because of bad trades in summer 2015 and 2016 primarily.

If they had handled that Reinhart deal or Hall situation better they would be comfortably in a good position today playing in the playoffs like the Leafs are.

Chia lost those trades and we are paying for it now because there isn't organizational depth to lose trades of that magnitude.

Either that OR the no.4 pick in 2016 had to be a star player for us, and it's not Jesse's fault but right now he's no where close.

Those three "misses" for us have killed us.

 

[Soundwave]

I actually don't think he has been making the decisions and didn't mean to come across that way. My comments are moreso coming from what appears to have been the coup that started building around January where reading between the lines suggest Gretzky may have been the chair of these summits.

I don't want him anywhere near where decisions are made. Getting his opinion, sure fine, but if he starts to try and push for anything around organizational/player personnel changes, I'd say GTFO.

Why would there be a need to have a coup (which I doubt really is happening) if Chia did a good job?

We're in this position because he blew it with two horrendous trades primarily that have altered the future of the franchise. And that's hard to admit, it's much easier just to say "well ... uh ... blame ... Gretzky".

 

[guymez]

Last I checked Katz was not the one who forced out Sather in a power struggle and then promoted the rookie head coach to rookie GM without looking outside the organization. All to save a few bucks.

One can blame Katz for keeping Lowe, the original OBC member, in power, and yet it's not correct to state that he started the parade.

Does it really matter who started it though?
IMO all that matters now is what Katz has done (and continues to do) since he bought the team.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Gretzky hasn't made any of the decisions that have doomed this team. Trying to blame him is rich. I'm fine with having him around the team.

The problem here is the GM. Has always been since 2008 when Katz bought the team. Until they fix that, they are going nowhere.

People trying to now pin this on Gretzky or Coffey ... that's hilarious and so Oilers.

Team sucks because the Reinhart trade and the Hall trade were franchise altering loser bets this team made and it will take some time to recover when you make moves that bad.

Just because you made the playoffs once doesn't mean they weren't bad moves. Calgary traded Brett Hull once upon a time and still won a Cup, that doesn't mean that move didn't have a huge long term impact on that franchise.

I don't know what could be more clear than Nicholson and Chia being problems.

The premise I'm reading today is also illogical.

We have a CEO and manager stated to be excellent and effective by their defendants and yet we're to believe that these same people are whipped into a corner by OBC imperative. Which would suggest weakness or vulnerability on the part of current management. Which is it?

 

[Soundwave]

I don't even think Nicholson does anything. His presser yesterday was pretty telling in how the Oilers actually operate. Nicholson is basically only there to relay Peter's decisions to Katz.

Peter basically runs the show otherwise. He can listen to other people but everything is his call on the hockey ops side. The press conference yesterday made that abundantly clear.

 

[guymez]

So we have the predictable duplicitous posters posting in a thread (and liking posts in the thread) and then questioning the purpose of the thread by cluttering it with odd posts....lol

Sounds like a potential applicant for Oilers Management.

 

[Drivesaitl]

What proof is there that Katz is doing much of anything? I think the most accurate picture is one of an absentee owner that is more concerned about business and real estate development than the win/loss operations of the team that probably bores him.

Curiously absent is seeing an owner interacting with the current version of the team. This might be deemed as nothing odd if this was 94 and the players we had here were hockey dorks but in the presence of players like McD, Drai, about the only time you ever see them even interacting or in the same room is the draft..I'd wonder how many times other than an every other year retreat with Katz in Cali that the current players even meet the owner.

The Katz Wayne Manor Batman jokes weren't made for decades for no reason. This owner is invisible inherently and has next to no contact with anybody but of his choosing. With that probably being more with OBC.

 

[BudBundy]

This is all very simple and Ive seen this all go down in business. An idiot owner has a likeable jackass working for him who fails in his job. Owner hires another guy but rather than firing the failure, shuffles the jackass off somewhere. Jackass sits and stews on it. New guy is given a chance but also fails. Old jackass sees his chance at redemption and starts to undermine new guy. Hilarity ensues.

The trifecta of failure is strong with the Oilers. Olds guys MacT and Lowe were failures. New guys Chiarelli and, to a lesser extent TMac, are also failures. You are left with a horribly run, dysfunctional, squabbling mess. Gee thanks Mr. Katz.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So we have the predictable duplicitous posters posting in a thread (and liking posts in the thread) and then questioning the purpose of the thread by cluttering it with odd posts....lol

Sounds like a potential applicant for Oilers Management.

Well that's kind of funny given I've been a consistent critic of the org. You've diametrically changed your view. To the point of your take not being even recognizable. Which is fine, but a little more preamble on how that change took place or acknowledgement that it did might help readers view your leaped transition. I did like the one post in which you referenced how wrong you were.

 

[Soundwave]

Katz is a bad owner because he's hired three bad GMs in a row. It doesn't matter if he's a good person, bad person, whatever. You need to rely on your GM to build the team and he's chosen three poor choices in a row.

There's no "conspiracy" or "coup" or elaborate theory you need past that, lol. That is just getting stupid and silly.

Tambellini, Mac T, and Chiarelli are all bad GMs. Team is bad because of that. It's that simple.