Pre-Game Talk: Look ahead to our next los- errrr game

[Gallagbi]

Leafs aren't losing games by being outplayed, outshot and not scoring regularly, because of depth players playing < 10 minutes a night.

Mark Fraser and Jared Smithson or Colton Orr are not losing the Leafs games and the reason for the team struggles and getting dominated regularly by opponents, despite being the weakest links on the team.

When a team is struggling offensively and breaking down defensively its not a depth player issue in play here but rather your star players not carrying the load that they're required to.

Kessel had 2 ES points and only 1 assist in 13 games in November with Leafs losing 9 of them. Not sure how that is the weakest links on the team fault? Leafs have the lowest scoring Defense core in the NHL, so again it doesn't appear Mark Fraser is the reason whey Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly and Franson are not contributing offensively.

The bottom end has been a huge issue. Frasers been eaten up since his return and Ranger played a big role in the Buffalo loss. The PK has struggled since Smithson was signed/recalled as well.

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs aren't losing games by being outplayed, outshot and not scoring regularly, because of depth players playing < 10 minutes a night.

Mark Fraser and Jared Smithson or Colton Orr are not losing the Leafs games and the reason for the team struggles and getting dominated regularly by opponents, despite being the weakest links on the team.

When a team is struggling offensively and breaking down defensively its not a depth player issue in play here but rather your star players not carrying the load that they're required to.

Kessel had 2 ES points and only 1 assist in 13 games in November with Leafs losing 9 of them. Not sure how that is the weakest links on the team fault? Leafs have the lowest scoring Defense core in the NHL, so again it doesn't appear Mark Fraser is the reason whey Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly and Franson are not contributing offensively.

But it is though. Leafs best players have been their best players.

 

[Rude Dog]

Gotta admit, I am still steaming about Saturday night. I just can't understand how Patches was able to get 10 feet behind 2 Leafs D while short handed ! Was it a bad line change or were they both simply clueless? To allow Patches 4 shots before either of them could catch up was mind numbing. Bernier should have cross checked them both in the teeth.

Patches second goal wasn't much better. All Gunnarson had to do was guide him behind the net. Such a nothing play results in the 4th goal. I almost wanted to throw up.

Considering the Leafs get very little offence from their defence. Why do they constantly pinch and give up 2 - 1's ? They must lead the league in 2 - 1's allowed. It's not like they are creating enough offence to justify the risk.

Last comment...do not trade Gardiner. His mistakes I can live with. Franson, Ranger, Fraser, Gunnarson...not so much.

 

[GifKing*]

Gotta admit, I am still steaming about Saturday night. I just can't understand how Patches was able to get 10 feet behind 2 Leafs D while short handed ! Was it a bad line change or were they both simply clueless? To allow Patches 4 shots before either of them could catch up was mind numbing. Bernier should have cross checked them both in the teeth.

Patches second goal wasn't much better. All Gunnarson had to do was guide him behind the net. Such a nothing play results in the 4th goal. I almost wanted to throw up.

Considering the Leafs get very little offence from their defence. Why do they constantly pinch and give up 2 - 1's ? They must lead the league in 2 - 1's allowed. It's not like they are creating enough offence in the opposing end to justify the risk.

Just poor play really. Nobody but ourselves to blame. That onus is on us.

What i can't get over is JVRs disallowed goal. I immediately thought about Malkins goal and how his was allowed. I'm glad Grapes spoke up on that during intermission. Poor officiating is not on us. That's why it bugs me.

Shouldn't a business so big and wealthy be doing something to correct this ?
Maybe a bi-weekly/monthly meeting where all refs phone in or skype to discuss such issues?

Beyond me....

 

[ACC1224]

When is Lupul due back?

 

[Gallagbi]

Gotta admit, I am still steaming about Saturday night. I just can't understand how Patches was able to get 10 feet behind 2 Leafs D while short handed ! Was it a bad line change or were they both simply clueless? To allow Patches 4 shots before either of them could catch up was mind numbing.

Looks like Phaneuf lets Fraser know that Pacioretty is cutting and Fraser doesn't adapt.

 

[ACC1224]

Looks like Phaneuf let's Fraser know that Pacioretty is cutting and Fraser doesn't adapt.

Nevermind. Brain cramp, you're right.

 

[LyGuy]

All I want is, give Liles a chance

 

[Eb]

Nevermind. Brain cramp, you're right.

PK..

 

[Mess]

The bottom end has been a huge issue. Frasers been eaten up since his return and Ranger played a big role in the Buffalo loss. The PK has struggled since Smithson was signed/recalled as well.

How is Smithson FO % compare to his teammates?

60.7% and better than all the Leafs other centers.

Winning a face-off = puck possession and losing a face-off = opponents puck possession. Leafs lack time of possession so is Smithson really the weakest link?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....=faceOffWinPctg&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll

Short handed FO%
McClement W= 44 L= 51
Bozak W=24 L=45
Smithson W=21 L=15

Only 1 PK C wins more draws than he loses while SH.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Of course we won't lose EVERY game but this is the 10th time in TWENTY YEARS and the first time in a year and a half that a Leafs team has lost 4 games in one week. These last few times that we lost 4 games in one week was in the so-called decade of doom (I just made that term up). With a high-flying aggressive Sharks team against a beaten up, given up Leafs team, the odds don't look too great for us.

It's been a tough month and an especially tough week but its not the end of the world. There's still December, January , February , March and part of April still to play yet it doesn't stop people for wanting to tank, fire the coach, trade players etc . What happened in previous games hardly means anything to what will happen in the future games. That's like saying the Leafs would win 10 games every month because of how well they did in October, we just simply don't know. Its easier to be pessimistic than optimistic though as shown by the boards for a while now. Just relax, its still early . We should worry if things don't improve by January , that in my opinion is when we should start thinking of big changes

Lets just see how the next couple games go first before we start talking about tanking

 

[Gallagbi]

How is Smithson FO % compare to his teammates?

60.7% and better than all the Leafs other centers.

Winning a face-off = puck possession and losing a face-off = opponents puck possession. Leafs lack time of possession so is Smithson really the weakest link?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....=faceOffWinPctg&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll

Where did I mention faceoff %?

It's a really nice sidebar for you to fall back on, but the PK has sunk since he arrived.

Compare his PK numbers to our other forwards who regularly kill penalties and you can see that he's an issue.
SH TOI SH TOI/G PPGA
Jay McClement C 109:52 4:13 15
James van Riemsdyk L 51:51 2:04 3
Nikolai Kulemin L 47:28 3:09 5
Mason Raymond L 41:30 1:32 5
Jerred Smithson C 29:21 2:26 6
Dave Bolland C 27:17 1:49 4
Tyler Bozak C 26:41 1:46 3

His PK numbers are far worse than any of our other regular forwards. Doesn't look like those face-offs are helping much at all.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Where did I mention faceoff %?

It's a really nice sidebar for you to fall back on, but the PK has sunk since he arrived.

Compare his PK numbers to our other forwards who regularly kill penalties and you can see that he's an issue.
SH TOI SH TOI/G PPGA
Jay McClement C 109:52 4:13 15
James van Riemsdyk L 51:51 2:04 3
Nikolai Kulemin L 47:28 3:09 5
Mason Raymond L 41:30 1:32 5
Jerred Smithson C 29:21 2:26 6
Dave Bolland C 27:17 1:49 4
Tyler Bozak C 26:41 1:46 3

His PK numbers are far worse than any of our other regular forwards. Doesn't look like those face-offs are helping much at all.

Well if you look at how we actually play on the PK the entire units put out is completely out of sync, aggressive when they should be passive and the other way around. Smithson has made a career out of being a good PKer and face-off man, he is not so bad now suddenly as to bring down the entire PK.

Those numbers are more a result of him coming in when our PK was already having problems, and not having the first part of the season to make his stats look good as the others have.

 

[Gallagbi]

Well if you look at how we actually play on the PK the entire units put out is completely out of sync, aggressive when they should be passive and the other way around. Smithson has made a career out of being a good PKer and face-off man, he is not so bad now suddenly as to bring down the entire PK.

Those numbers are more a result of him coming in when our PK was already having problems, and not having the first part of the season to make his stats look good as the others have.

He's not the only problem, but he definitely is one.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

At least call up Leivo and Broll, shake up the lines a bit.

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Leivo-Kadri-Kulemin <-- I've seen more chemistry with Kadri-Kulemin than Kadri-Clarkson
Raymond-Holland-Clarkson <-- #FreeHolland and Clarkson should play 3rd line
Broll-McClement-Orr <-- Broll>>Ashton/McLaren for 4th line role

Also PLEASE, do not overuse McClement. Let him be used for PK.

#1 PP UNIT:
JVR-Kadri-Kessel

#2 PP UNIT:
Raymond-Holland-Clarkson

Hopefully, Holland is used this time. I think we really need three legitimate lines that can score. The Holland - Clarkson pair can work, but with Leivo on the left wing. I think Kulemin and Raymond work quite well on the same line. Kadri doesn't have much chemistry with Clarkson so let's try Kulemin instead.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

It's been a tough month and an especially tough week but its not the end of the world. There's still December, January , February , March and part of April still to play yet it doesn't stop people for wanting to tank, fire the coach, trade players etc . What happened in previous games hardly means anything to what will happen in the future games. That's like saying the Leafs would win 10 games every month because of how well they did in October, we just simply don't know. Its easier to be pessimistic than optimistic though as shown by the boards for a while now. Just relax, its still early . We should worry if things don't improve by January , that in my opinion is when we should start thinking of big changes

Lets just see how the next couple games go first before we start talking about tanking

Well said, it's a 82 game season. I think we have the ability to be one of the best teams in the East. Our problem right now is weak play outside of the defensive zone. We're actually pretty decent in our zone as we regularly clear the net, close off lanes, and contain top guys. However, extending our D zone adventures has been killing us.

 

[Nithoniniel]

He's not the only problem, but he definitely is one.

Nah, I don't think any individual is the problem when the same symptoms show up for every player on the ice during a PK.

 

[mikebel111*]

Leafs practising 5-on-3; Phaneuf-Bozak on points while Kadri joins Kessel, JVR

maybe because franson wasn't there but could have used a D man on point

 

[Mess]

Nah, I don't think any individual is the problem when the same symptoms show up for every player on the ice during a PK.

Also Smithson isn't a regular player, he is a AHL call-up injury replacement player.

If someone wants to criticize him for Leaf struggles then that has to be taken into consideration. He isn't Plan A but Plan B.

Is there a better option than Smithson available in the organization who as you say has made a career taking\winning FOs and filling penalties. If he is really the solution to fix Leafs problems than put him in the pressbox and problem solved.

Leafs have been struggling all season being outplayed and outshot and Smithson is just a recent addition and certainly not the reason for Leafs puck possession and lack of offense issues.

 

[Al14]

When is Lupul due back?

A couple of games prior to his next boo-boo!

 

[LeafsMonster]

Dows anyone notice that we look a lot slower in these past few games. We stop skating and never use our speed. I get that we're supposed to e a cycle team as opposed to a rush team, however the majority of the reasons why we cannot break out of our zone is because we're skating slow, hangin on to the puck too much, and by allowing the d the catch up and set up, we make passes that often get blocked and intercepted, sending the puck the other way.

We need to find our speed again and learn how to use our teammates again for the love of god. And our passing right now, dear lord our passing

 

[Purity*]

Dows anyone notice that we look a lot slower in these past few games. We stop skating and never use our speed. I get that we're supposed to e a cycle team as opposed to a rush team, however the majority of the reasons why we cannot break out of our zone is because we're skating slow, hangin on to the puck too much, and by allowing the d the catch up and set up, we make passes that often get blocked and intercepted, sending the puck the other way.

We need to find our speed again and learn how to use our teammates again for the love of god. And our passing right now, dear lord our passing

And maybe actually SCORE SOME ****ING GOALS, god has our offense ever dried up since the beginning of November, and pretty much for the reasons you listed: No speed, terrible passing, and our effort level has completely went down the toilet. Kessel, JVR and Kadri are all due for a hotstreak, any ****ing time soon would be nice.

I don't understand, there are a handful of teams around the league with a worse defense, and a generally worse lineup than the Leafs, yet even these bad teams are superior to the Leafs in puck-possession, shot totals, and general puck movement. This honestly leads me to believe it's a coaching problem, because Carlyle's Ducks' in his last year in Anaheim share a lot of the same problems as the Leafs do today.

 

[Gallagbi]

Also Smithson isn't a regular player, he is a AHL call-up injury replacement player.

If someone wants to criticize him for Leaf struggles then that has to be taken into consideration. He isn't Plan A but Plan B.

Is there a better option than Smithson available in the organization who as you say has made a career taking\winning FOs and filling penalties. If he is really the solution to fix Leafs problems than put him in the pressbox and problem solved.

Leafs have been struggling all season being outplayed and outshot and Smithson is just a recent addition and certainly not the reason for Leafs puck possession and lack of offense issues.

Smithson is an example of the depth players hurting us. Seems like your wandering from that topic now.

The recent struggles are different than the early season play. Earlier in the year the team was outshot but looked composed and limited scoring opportunities. Now it looks like a Chinese fire drill.

 

[Mess]

Smithson is an example of the depth players hurting us.

The recent struggles are different than the early season play. Earlier in the year the team was outshot but looked composed and limited scoring opportunities. Now it looks like a Chinese fire drill.

Who do you suggest Leafs play instead of Smithson as an injury replacement?

If Leafs didn't have injuries Smithson wouldn't be on the team. So he isn't a depth player, but and injury replacement depth player and not here intentionally.. In fact he was signed to an AHL only contract at beginning of the season as Leafs had no plans for him in the NHL. Do injury fill-in players generally make a team stronger?

So perhaps Carlyle should toss Kadri out there instead on the PK and get him to try and win some draws and kill some penalties instead if you feel Smithson is the reason for Leafs problems.

 

[Gallagbi]

Who do you suggest Leafs play instead of Smithson as an injury replacement?

If Leafs didn't have injuries Smithson wouldn't be on the team. So he isn't a depth player, but and injury replacement depth player and not here intentionally.. In fact he was signed to an AHL only contract at beginning of the season as Leafs had no plans for him in the NHL. Do injury fill-in players generally make a team stronger?

So perhaps Carlyle should toss Kadri out there instead on the PK and get him to try and win some draws and kill some penalties instead if you feel Smithson is the reason for Leafs problems.

That's what depth players are. They're your lower line NHLers and call ups. You had no problem thinking Smithson was a depth player when you thought you had an argument for him, but now we can't consider him since I showed you how bad he's been on the PK?

You mentioned Smithson, Fraser and Orr by name saying they aren't the reason we're losing. There's a strong argument to be made that those players, especially Fraser and Smithson are hurting us.