GDT: Lightning and Pens @ Johnstown - 7PM?

[JTG]

And if Maatta had Despres' physical attributes, coupled with his brain for the game, we'd have a franchise top pairing defenseman. I'd argue that for every time Despres makes a dumb play, Maatta gets out skated or outmuscled.

I love Maatta. He had a very solid rookie year before falling off a bit of a cliff at the end. He then had a great month before missing the rest of his 2nd season. At this point, Maatta has never had a full season where he looked as good as Despres did last season. Does that mean he won't? No, of course not. There are too many questions with each of them to really say how either will play out. As it stands though, I'd say Despres has proven that he can successfully play well for an entire NHL season and playoff. Maatta hasn't done that yet.

I do agree with that. Despres right now would solve a pretty big problem on our back end.

Maatta's strength will come. Injuries have set him back, but he is 21 years old, and a full 3 years younger than Despres.

 

[IcedCapp]

Please play Maatta with Scuderi for 50 games and then tout Maatta's iq

Despres was NEVER used in advantageous situations like Maatta was. Until he got to Anaheim. Where he was suddenly capable of doing more.

Put Maatta in Despres' spot and Despres in Maatta's and tell me who looks better and who looks worse.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Please play Maatta with Scuderi for 50 games and then tout Maatta's iq

Despres was NEVER used in advantageous situations like Maatta was. Until he got to Anaheim. Where he was suddenly capable of doing more.

Put Maatta in Despres' spot and Despres in Maatta's and tell me who looks better and who looks worse.

Bortuzzo looked like a competent NHL Dman while paired with Maatta.

 

[IcedCapp]

Bortuzzo looked like a competent NHL Dman while paired with Maatta.

And Scuderi was like neutral corsi player with Despres. Also, Bortuzzo is a better player than Scuderi, so...?

 

[JTG]

Please play Maatta with Scuderi for 50 games and then tout Maatta's iq

Despres was NEVER used in advantageous situations like Maatta was. Until he got to Anaheim. Where he was suddenly capable of doing more.

Put Maatta in Despres' spot and Despres in Maatta's and tell me who looks better and who looks worse.

Maatta would almost always look better because his game isn't really predicated on who he plays with. This season, at 21 years old, Maatta will be paired with some defenseman in order to make that defenseman look better. The best thing for this team is to play Letang and Maatta together, but that will probably not happen, and if it does, it won't for long because our depth at defense is terrible. Despres would almost always be the defenseman who was paired with a guy like Maatta.

I don't knock Despres because he was in a **** situation here. He was given ****** linemates, put in ****** situations, and given no leash to really make strides - DB's hand was always on Despres' collar.

 

[JTG]

In all actuality, A Despres-Maatta pairing is EXACTLY what we would need on the 2nd pair. I'd put someone like Cole with Letang.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I think Maatta, while he showed a Hell of a lot of promise, hasn't really proven anything. Injuries have derailed his progression quite a bit. Even when he was healthy, he wasn't immune to "rookie moments" (getting walked, making poor decisions with the puck, caught out of position, etc). I'm not exactly supremely confident he's ready for full-time, top pairing minutes and responsibility. The problem is that we have no other choice, let alone a better one.

Like IC said, Despres was never given a chance to do anything here. Given all of Despres' upside, size, and play-style, you have to make room for a guy like that. That's a damn important player to your team. Call it coddling if you want, but that doesn't seem fair or accurate.

In a perfect (see also; common sense) world, we'd still have both.

In all actuality, A Despres-Maatta pairing is EXACTLY what we would need on the 2nd pair. I'd put someone like Cole with Letang.

Good call. That'd be great, now and for the next decade.

 

[JTG]

I just did a stroll down memory lane - Sneep, Strait, Bortuzzo, Despres, Samuelsson, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot, Maatta.

That right there represents drafts 2006 until 2012 - rounds 1-3. Four 1st rounders, three 2nd rounders, two 3rd rounders. And here we ****ing are...

 

[JTG]

And I'll keep that ball rolling, we traded Joe Morrow, Despres, and Samuelsson for Brendan Morrow, Ben Lovejoy, and Rob Klinkhammer.

We lost Strait and Sneep for nothing.

The Bortuzzo deal we won, and if you do a mind trick, trading Cole for Despres could be a win for us. Pouliot and Maatta are still on the team.

On that note, I'm going to get myself a beer.

 

[IcedCapp]

Maatta would almost always look better because his game isn't really predicated on who he plays with. This season, at 21 years old, Maatta will be paired with some defenseman in order to make that defenseman look better. The best thing for this team is to play Letang and Maatta together, but that will probably not happen, and if it does, it won't for long because our depth at defense is terrible. Despres would almost always be the defenseman who was paired with a guy like Maatta.

I don't knock Despres because he was in a **** situation here. He was given ****** linemates, put in ****** situations, and given no leash to really make strides - DB's hand was always on Despres' collar.

I dunno, off-wing with Scuderi throwing grenades into your skates would make anyone would bad. I also think Despres' skating helped that pair out of a ton of **** that I don't think Maatta could skate out of (but maybe he could IQ out of it, since Despres is apparently a dumb ****).

Look, I'm honestly not sitting here saying Despres is Bobby Orr and Maatta is Bobby Hill. I like both players. And like you, I wanted a Maatta - Despres pair. It would be an elite second unit.

But I am saying that Despres gets **** on repeatedly by Pens fans (not you) for things that aren't his fault. Guy is still young, is huge, loves physical play, can skate, and has a really good first pass.

Somehow he's been painted as a drunk, gambling moron with the iq of a dead gnat.

So, I know I'm a bit obsessive on this topic, but I'm going to stand up for him, because he's a good player, everything I've heard about him says he's a good person, and I think he gets **** on far too often.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

And I'll keep that ball rolling, we traded Joe Morrow, Despres, and Samuelsson for Brendan Morrow, Ben Lovejoy, and Rob Klinkhammer.

We lost Strait and Sneep for nothing.

The Bortuzzo deal we won, and if you do a mind trick, trading Cole for Despres could be a win for us. Pouliot and Maatta are still on the team.

On that note, I'm going to get myself a beer.

And we're about to have traded our 2015 1st rounded for a to-be-named disappointment at defense. Or Perron's just gonna walk after a season on the third line RW.

 

[JTG]

And we're about to have traded our 2015 1st rounded for a to-be-named disappointment at defense. Or Perron's just gonna walk after a season on the third line RW.

I don't know if I'm emotionally capable of handling this conversation anymore.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Why the **** is this thread still going on?

 

[IcedCapp]

Why the **** is this thread still going on?

Who asked your opinion?!?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Who asked your opinion?!?

I'm the owner of the thread, so it doesn't matter. I do what I want.

 

[JTG]

I dunno, off-wing with Scuderi throwing grenades into your skates would make anyone would bad. I also think Despres' skating helped that pair out of a ton of **** that I don't think Maatta could skate out of (but maybe he could IQ out of it, since Despres is apparently a dumb ****).

Look, I'm honestly not sitting here saying Despres is Bobby Orr and Maatta is Bobby Hill. I like both players. And like you, I wanted a Maatta - Despres pair. It would be an elite second unit.

But I am saying that Despres gets **** on repeatedly by Pens fans (not you) for things that aren't his fault. Guy is still young, is huge, loves physical play, can skate, and has a really good first pass.

Somehow he's been painted as a drunk, gambling moron with the iq of a dead gnat.

So, I know I'm a bit obsessive on this topic, but I'm going to stand up for him, because he's a good player, everything I've heard about him says he's a good person, and I think he gets **** on far too often.

I would contend that physically, Simon Despres is unmatched in the league. I have never seen a guy who is 6'4, 230 lbs skate that fast. He's unbelievable to watch, and guys like him make watching game fun. It's highly unfortunate for him and this team that his development was so horribly managed. The one thing I have always sort of admired about Mike Babcock is he allowed guys to come into his dressing room as young inexperienced players, and make mistakes. Those guys rewarded him later for that. You learn and gain experience by playing and making mistakes. Simon Despres should have been an NHL regular 2 years ago. Rather than allowing him to work through his game and actually gain the experience we traded pick after pick for, they sat on his development and basically let him rot.

I think Despres' situation was just a terrible luck of a coach and GM trying desperately to keep their jobs, and rather than being risky and allowing a young defenseman to make mistakes, they decided against allowing Despres to play. Awful decision, and knowing what we know now, none of those defensemen we drafted would have ever developed under that regime.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't know if I'm emotionally capable of handling this conversation anymore.

♫ No one knows what it's like, to be a Pens fan. To be a sad fan. ♫

Who asked your opinion?!?

I'm the owner of the thread, so it doesn't matter. I do what I want.

 

[IcedCapp]

I'm the owner of the thread, so it doesn't matter. I do what I want.

I've never seen that version before. Hilarious.

I would contend that physically, Simon Despres is unmatched in the league. I have never seen a guy who is 6'4, 230 lbs skate that fast. He's unbelievable to watch, and guys like him make watching game fun. It's highly unfortunate for him and this team that his development was so horribly managed. The one thing I have always sort of admired about Mike Babcock is he allowed guys to come into his dressing room as young inexperienced players, and make mistakes. Those guys rewarded him later for that. You learn and gain experience by playing and making mistakes. Simon Despres should have been an NHL regular 2 years ago. Rather than allowing him to work through his game and actually gain the experience we traded pick after pick for, they sat on his development and basically let him rot.

I think Despres' situation was just a terrible luck of a coach and GM trying desperately to keep their jobs, and rather than being risky and allowing a young defenseman to make mistakes, they decided against allowing Despres to play. Awful decision, and knowing what we know now, none of those defensemen we drafted would have ever developed under that regime.

And Babcock was available. I wish the Pens would have just gone for broke and hired him. I'd give up Kessel and everything else.

 

[steveg]

It's nothing on here anyone would find fascinating.

I became a sponsored tourney player in my 20s and got to play with some big names in my circle such as Kip Guenther and Jamie Adams, who knew Warren Young, Erin Whitten, Bryan Trottier, Alain Lemieux, etc. So I got to meet a lot of people through the game. It always kept me humble because you knew there were people out there like Tony Szabo who would piss all over you, and there were fourth liners in the NHL who would eat him up.

I pretty much stopped playing competitively 6-7 years ago, but the only thing I still really want to do is play in the Pond Hockey Championships. It's on my bucket list and I had an invitation a little while back but my daughter was due that month so obviously I turned it down.

As far as skating goes, it's never too late to learn and there are leagues in most cities for beginners once you get the basics down. I've known a ton of people who learned as adults and within a year it was like night and day.

That's good stuff, Jiggy. Actually, I DO find that fascinating. It's no wonder I enjoy reading what you post so much. By the way, what's it mean to be a "sponsored player?" Oh, and I never heard of the "Pond Hockey Championships." Time for a Google search!

Yeah, I didn't start skating until high school, and our school didn't have a team. So, I missed the boat. Played some college intramural hockey at Penn State, but obviously never got any coaching in that environment. It was beer league stuff after that, until joining a group in Oklahoma where we were "coached" by one of the guys who played for the now defunct Oklahoma City Blazers of the Central Hockey League. That's the most coaching I ever got, and I loved the teaching and the drills and learning things like breakouts, power play stuff, etc. That lasted about a year, until he moved on...

I just love the sport.

 

[steveg]

Heretic

Edit: I disagree with JTG's assessment of Despres, but do agree that I wouldn't trade Pouliot for him. Different reasons, but suffice to say that's not a move I would make. (Knowing what I know. In a vacuum, yes, Despres is a far-better player. Would be the 2nd or 3rd best player on this d, and the gap between 3 and 4 would be the size of ____________)

Care to elaborate here, Capp? Why would you not make the move of Pouliot for Despres straight up, "knowing what you know?" Especially, given that you said you know he is a far better player?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's good stuff, Jiggy. Actually, I DO find that fascinating. It's no wonder I enjoy reading what you post so much. By the way, what's it mean to be a "sponsored player?" Oh, and I never heard of the "Pond Hockey Championships." Time for a Google search!

Sponsored just meant our teams were sponsored by various corporations. They covered our tourney dues, and paid for some of our gear. It was a nice setup TBTH. All we had to do was wear their names on our jerseys somewhere, basically.

Yeah, I didn't start skating until high school, and our school didn't have a team. So, I missed the boat. Played some college intramural hockey at Penn State, but obviously never got any coaching in that environment. It was beer league stuff after that, until joining a group in Oklahoma where we were "coached" by one of the guys who played for the now defunct Oklahoma City Blazers of the Central Hockey League. That's the most coaching I ever got, and I loved the teaching and the drills and learning things like breakouts, power play stuff, etc. That lasted about a year, until he moved on...

I just love the sport.

Sounds like you did better than a local dek league, so that's cool to hear. Have you ever played outdoors?

Even in my competitive days, my greatest joy was being alone on some outdoor rink with just the sound of my blades cutting the ice. There was always something magical about that for me, hence my desire to play at the PHC.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Yeah, blade on ice is a sound like no other. Love it.

 

[JTG]

I took my first job at a hockey rink at $5.25 an hour as a 15 year old. I'd really just run open skates, and work as a guard for 3-4 hours. The manager taught me how to sharpen skates and drive zamboni to get more hours, and if I did late night cuts for him so he could go home early, he'd let me stay as late as I wanted and skate around on an empty sheet, shooting pucks, and doing drills by myself.

Those nights are honestly some of the most cherished nights of my life, and I'd give pretty much anything to be able to experience that again. I was a kid trying to get better so I could maybe play for a good college program. Those nights alone were huge for me.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

And Babcock was available. I wish the Pens would have just gone for broke and hired him. I'd give up Kessel and everything else.

That's all because Shero didn't fire DB after the Boston series. Had he done his job, whomever he hired would be have been here for 2 years (of mostlike a 2 or 3 year deal) and we'd be much more likely to fire him and go after Babs.

Shero ****ed us in so many ways. It's almost like he was trying to **** us. And he wasn't gentle about it.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

That's all because Shero didn't fire DB after the Boston series. Had he done his job, whomever he hired would be have been here for 2 years (of mostlike a 2 or 3 year deal) and we'd be much more likely to fire him and go after Babs.

Shero ****ed us in so many ways. It's almost like he was trying to **** us. And he wasn't gentle about it.

Yep. It's ****ing insane to look at the state he left this team in when he left. From personnel behind the bench/front office, to the disaster of a roster, to the bone-dry prospect cupboard.