GDT: Lightning and Pens @ Johnstown - 7PM?

[Empoleon8771]

If, and this is a big if, but if Plots continues on this upward arc, and becomes a legit top 6 power forward, then who would you rather have, Perron @ 4.5m x 5, or Plots? Because it wouldn't appear we could afford both.

I can't imagine we'd sign both Perron and Plotnikov to a serious money contract unless we moved out Kunitz to be honest. The issue will be with Plotnikov's bonuses being pushed to next year, which will give us a $2.85 million cap penalty for next year. Scuderi being bought out and Kunitz being traded gives us $5.5 million in cap space. With Plotnikov at $3 million (Komarov as a comparable), Perron at $4.5, Maatta at $4.25 (tons of comparables) and BB and Clendening combined for $2 million combined with recalling Sundqvist and Murray gives us 11 forwards, 5 D and 2 goalies that cost $68.4 million, and the cap penalties from Plotnikov and Scuderi bring that up to $72.9 million for an 18 man roster. Assuming the cap goes up like it's projected to (I'm guessing around $75.5 million, with the expansion stuff plus the normal rate it goes up), I don't see an issue. It will be really damn close due to Plotnikov's bonuses he'll hit under this assumption (if he doesn't hit those bonuses, he won't come close to $3 million AAV).

The completely easy solution for that is for us to trade Kunitz, have Dupuis retire and buyout Scuderi and run with:

Perron-Crosby-Kessel
Plotnikov-Malkin-Hornqvist
Bennett-Bonino-Fehr
Sundqvist-XXXXX-XXXXX

Maatta-Letang
Dumoulin-Cole
XXXXX-Clendening

Fleury-Murray

If we can get rid of the 3 boat anchors, it's stupidly easy to fit all of those players in. It's just do you think Dupuis would retire? I think they'll trade Kunitz to keep Perron and Scuderi being bought out (or even better, traded or retiring) is almost a given. I just don't know if Dupuis leaving is likely, which is imperative for us to keep Perron and Plotnkov assuming Plots breaks out. If he does break out, why would we even bother keeping Kunitz?

 

[Ugene Magic]

I really just took this game in and didn't worry about the ins and outs.

Was a fun game to actually watch from Malkin to Stamkos to Plotnikov and the triplets.

Matt Murray was the overall stand out, though.

Slap Shot right after.

Thanks for a great night of television, and congrats to Johnstown/Hockeyville.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Clendening looks like a cop that'd pull you over for going 46 in a 45.

 

[JTG]

I'm real hung up on Matt Murray. He has looked insanely good facing NHL shooters. I really think he may be the real deal. He's already so big and athletic. To have that type of poise and positioning on top of it. Insane goaltending prospect.

 

[JTG]

Clendening looks like a cop that'd pull you over for going 46 in a 45.

This made me lol

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'm real hung up on Matt Murray. He has looked insanely good facing NHL shooters. I really think he may be the real deal. He's already so big and athletic. To have that type of poise and positioning on top of it. Insane goaltending prospect.

He's one of the guys I'm excited about as well. He doesn't panic, he's really good at making reads and eliminating rebounds.

Could be a real threat to challenge Fleury in a couple of years.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I can't imagine we'd sign both Perron and Plotnikov to a serious money contract unless we moved out Kunitz to be honest. The issue will be with Plotnikov's bonuses being pushed to next year, which will give us a $2.85 million cap penalty for next year. Scuderi being bought out and Kunitz being traded gives us $5.5 million in cap space. With Plotnikov at $3 million (Komarov as a comparable), Perron at $4.5, Maatta at $4.25 (tons of comparables) and BB and Clendening combined for $2 million combined with recalling Sundqvist and Murray gives us 11 forwards, 5 D and 2 goalies that cost $68.4 million, and the cap penalties from Plotnikov and Scuderi bring that up to $72.9 million for an 18 man roster. Assuming the cap goes up like it's projected to (I'm guessing around $75.5 million, with the expansion stuff plus the normal rate it goes up), I don't see an issue. It will be really damn close due to Plotnikov's bonuses he'll hit under this assumption (if he doesn't hit those bonuses, he won't come close to $3 million AAV).

The completely easy solution for that is for us to trade Kunitz, have Dupuis retire and buyout Scuderi and run with:

Perron-Crosby-Kessel
Plotnikov-Malkin-Hornqvist
Bennett-Bonino-Fehr
Sundqvist-XXXXX-XXXXX

Maatta-Letang
Dumoulin-Cole
XXXXX-Clendening

Fleury-Murray

If we can get rid of the 3 boat anchors, it's stupidly easy to fit all of those players in. It's just do you think Dupuis would retire? I think they'll trade Kunitz to keep Perron and Scuderi being bought out (or even better, traded or retiring) is almost a given. I just don't know if Dupuis leaving is likely, which is imperative for us to keep Perron and Plotnkov assuming Plots breaks out. If he does break out, why would we even bother keeping Kunitz?

Yah, I was worrying about those cap penalties a little too. But thanks for doing this legwork Emp, it looks like we can swing it. If we can hopefully get Sprong and Sundqvist next year, we're finally in line to get the kinds of contributions from inexpensive young players you need to win a cup.

And I expect Cole and Dumo (and even Clendening?) to be massive bargains for a few years, which will help get us through the Scuds/Kunitz dark years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yah, I was worrying about those cap penalties a little too. But thanks for doing this legwork Emp, it looks like we can swing it. If we can hopefully get Sprong and Sundqvist next year, we're finally in line to get the kinds of contributions from inexpensive young players you need to win a cup.

And I expect Cole and Dumo (and even Clendening?) to be massive bargains for a few years, which will help get us through the Scuds/Kunitz dark years.

I was trying to make a lineup with Sprong in it, but I didn't like Bennett and Sprong being on the same line with Bonino. Something that wouldn't surprise me at all is if we didn't retain either Perron or Kunitz, as in we either trade both of them (this is what I would guess would happen, Perron for a D this year and Kunitz for futures after the year) or trade Kunitz and let Perron walk. In that case, our top-9 LWs would be Bennett, Plotnikov and Fehr and our RWs would be Kessel, Hornqvist and Sprong. That wouldn't surprise me to be completely honest, especially with the Pens insisting that BB can play LW. Our top-9 wing group would still be very good (I would go Plotnikov-Kessel, Bennett-Honrqvist and Fehr-Sprong) and we'd still have Sundqvist and Dupuis on the 4th line, who can step into a top-9 role if needed.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I was trying to make a lineup with Sprong in it, but I didn't like Bennett and Sprong being on the same line with Bonino. Something that wouldn't surprise me at all is if we didn't retain either Perron or Kunitz, as in we either trade both of them (this is what I would guess would happen, Perron for a D this year and Kunitz for futures after the year) or trade Kunitz and let Perron walk. In that case, our top-9 LWs would be Bennett, Plotnikov and Fehr and our RWs would be Kessel, Hornqvist and Sprong. That wouldn't surprise me to be completely honest, especially with the Pens insisting that BB can play LW. Our top-9 wing group would still be very good (I would go Plotnikov-Kessel, Bennett-Honrqvist and Fehr-Sprong) and we'd still have Sundqvist and Dupuis on the 4th line, who can step into a top-9 role if needed.

I'm actually warming to the idea of a Plots/Geno/PH line. As IC mentioned somewhere, what a punishing line to have to deal with for 2nd pair D men.

 

[#66]

What does a Pouliot/ Bennett package bring back? Any shot at Savard from CBJ?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

He's one of the guys I'm excited about as well. He doesn't panic, he's really good at making reads and eliminating rebounds.

Could be a real threat to challenge Fleury in a couple of years.

It's the Pens and Fleury is beloved... god damn it, MAF aging is going to be a disaster with this team. "We could give Murray the reigns but then Marc would be sad and we can't have that. Fetch Kunitz's walker so he can give a talking to that young man."

Murray is looking really exciting so far, a potential steal, tbh. Shero's 2012 draft could be his good mark on the org as far as Maatta, Murray and Sundqvist go.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm actually warming to the idea of a Plots/Geno/PH line. As IC mentioned somewhere, what a punishing line to have to deal with for 2nd pair D men.

I like the blend of that line too, I just don't like the potential BB with Crosby and Kessel line. Then again, Bennett did do well with Malkin and Neal in the past, so maybe he could thrive there.

Either way, I can't see us keeping all of Perron, Bennett and Sprong long term., simply because there isn't enough space for all 4 of them. We already have the top-9 RW spots locked up long term and Plotnikov long term at LW.

What does a Pouliot/ Bennett package bring back? Any shot at Savard from CBJ?

Why don't we keep our young assets?

 

[IcedCapp]

I doubt Murray gets more than a cup o Joe this year, but the Pens may have a serious cap crunch next year, and one wonders... Maybe not aloud, but wonders nonetheless.

And there's also the possibility, albeit remote, that some gm sees his performance in the AHL and limited NHL showings and decides he's the real deal and blows his Brains out with an offer while Murray is young and cost controlled.

 

[JTG]

I doubt Murray gets more than a cup o Joe this year, but the Pens may have a serious cap crunch next year, and one wonders... Maybe jot aloud, but wonders nonetheless.

And there's also the possibility, albeit remote, that some gm sees his performance in the AHL and limited NHL showings and decides he's the real deal and blows his Brains out with an offer while Murray is young and cost controlled.

A team who really hurts for goaltending could very well do that. That would more than likely happen a year or two down the line where he's getting some decent starts. The guy looks unbelievable. I'm curious to see his stickwork though. He hasn't played the puck much, if at all.

 

[#66]

I like the blend of that line too, I just don't like the potential BB with Crosby and Kessel line. Then again, Bennett did do well with Malkin and Neal in the past, so maybe he could thrive there.

Either way, I can't see us keeping all of Perron, Bennett and Sprong long term., simply because there isn't enough space for all 4 of them. We already have the top-9 RW spots locked up long term and Plotnikov long term at LW.



Why don't we keep our young assets?

Because the Pens can trade them for young players that actually fit their role.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I doubt Murray gets more than a cup o Joe this year, but the Pens may have a serious cap crunch next year, and one wonders... Maybe not aloud, but wonders nonetheless.

And there's also the possibility, albeit remote, that some gm sees his performance in the AHL and limited NHL showings and decides he's the real deal and blows his Brains out with an offer while Murray is young and cost controlled.

Do you think we could trade Murray for Despres? I hear he's a good young defenseman and we currently are in need of such a player.

 

[JTG]

Do you think we could trade Murray for Despres? I hear he's a good young defenseman and we currently are in need of such a player.

Stop it, you

 

[Speaking Moistly]

How many people would do Pouliot for Despres? Out of curiousity.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

How many people would do Pouliot for Despres? Out of curiousity.

*raises hand*

In a heartbeat. Regardless of what anyone realistically thinks of Pouliot's upside, Despres is a top-4 defenseman right now, and he brings every single aspect we're missing; Big, great skater, great first pass, loves the physical stuff.

Pouliot looks years away. That's a no-brainer.

 

[JTG]

I wouldn't do that trade at the moment.

If we're trading Pouliot, I'd rather package him and get something substantial in return.

 

[steveg]

We both saw it, but what really matters is that MJ saw it and stated he has moved ahead of some other blueliners (DP, Scuds?). So people don't have to take our word for it.

I was especially impressed with his quick chips around the boards that consistently found the correct outlet. Using the boards to find your partner or supporting winger is vital to avoiding a heavy forecheck. I used to spend entire practices trying to master this skill, it's that important.

I can't emphasize enough how valuable this skill is, and it's one of the first things I look for when watching a young blueliner. When MJ says DP holds the puck too long and isn't making fast decisions, this is probably the biggest area where he needs to improve.

The best blueliners make this look easy, but with the way NHL players seal the boards, it's a very underrated skill many casual fans don't notice.

Very interesting, Jiggy. I didn't play hockey at a high enough level (and was a forward, at that) to have been coached to that degree, regarding those chips off the boards during an aggressive forecheck. While I know just what you are talking about, you are right -- that's a bit more subtle of a skill that I wouldn't immediately focus on or look for, when evaluating a young d-man. Thanks for pointing it out, and expanding my understanding of defensive subtleties that young players often struggle with...

 

[steveg]

And 2 years of relief is huge because it means the trifecta of Kunitz, Dupuis, and Scuderi will be coming off the books. That's 10 millionish freed up.

That is, until they re-sign Kunitz to a new contract to keep him on L1, because chemistry...

 

[steveg]

I wouldn't do that trade at the moment.

If we're trading Pouliot, I'd rather package him and get something substantial in return.

To me, getting Despres IS getting something substantial in return.

I'm down with it...

 

[plaidchuck]

So who thinks pouliot should've gone instead of harrington?

 

[Zen Arcade]

Do you think we could trade Murray for Despres? I hear he's a good young defenseman and we currently are in need of such a player.

If Murray pans out he'll be way more valuable than Despres.

We're talking 2, maybe even 3 Lovejoys of value.