Confirmed with Link: Lehner(72% retained), & Martins Dzierkals for 2nd, Subban, 5th, & Slava Demin

[CupInSIX]

What if the Penguins didn't have Murray in '016 and 17?
What if Vegas had a Lehner backing up MAF in 2018? OK they probably still lose but not as bad.


And at this point I'm fine and dandy with losing 'not as bad'.

 

[CupInSIX]

Plus it's not like they'd be in the same boat as Florida or Montreal where it's a guaranteed 12+m spent on goaltending for several years.

 

[theslatcher]

What if the Penguins didn't have Murray in '016 and 17?

'16 is a who knows? '17 though, Flower got them to the ECF and along the way beat the best team they came across in Caps, so them winning the cup with only him in net sounds very plausible.

And yeah, it's only 2 more years on his contract, it's very short term and all our core guys are locked up with our rookies not looking to get raises before it's up.

E: completely forgot that MAF was injured in '16, so yeah no cup without Murray.

E2: I know what you're getting at though and I agree with that sentiment.

 

[LadyStanley]

Probable finished look

 

[Vegan Knight]

Goalies are important, you can win and have a mediocre goalie but they have to play better than that and have a team capable of overcoming it. The Blackhawks teams were way better than the Kings teams but Quick was capable of playing better than Crawford and that stopped a three peat by the Hawks.

 

[theslatcher]

Sounds better than what we've heard prior.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Cap doesn't win Cups. Good defense and goalies do. If they don't have their goaltending sorted out, they need to overpay for a veteran defenseman. Either way, cap needs to be spent on the D zone.

Unless Pietrangelo magically goes to UFA, I'd rather spend 6m on Lehner if he has a really good run with Vegas. That's 13m on goalies for one year, then they can explore other options with Fleury, like buying him out & re-signing him.

Fleury's buyout would be punitive. You'd have to look to move him & retain salary.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Fleury's buyout would be punitive. You'd have to look to move him & retain salary.

I don't think we would need to trade him at all. We could afford him to be a 1B if it was what was best for the team. 7M rolling off the books would be great for the team with Hague and Glass (and Elvenes and possibly others) needing their RFA deals. Don't want to trade Fleury and use that cap somewhere that can't be off when our first big RFA group are up for new deals.

Obviously we could retain up to half and bring in a good backup for 3.5M or less if Fleury did not want that situation. Unless he falls off a cliff we should be able to get a few picks from that.

 

[willy702]

What if the Penguins didn't have Murray in '016 and 17?
What if Vegas had a Lehner backing up MAF in 2018? OK they probably still lose but not as bad.


And at this point I'm fine and dandy with losing 'not as bad'.

How much did they pay for that tandem? Lehner with just 28% of his salary is great to have.

 

[Vegan Knight]

How much did they pay for that tandem? Lehner with just 28% of his salary is great to have.

They also had their 1D missing and his 6M on their cap for one of those runs.

Their D was very patchwork and relied on Ben Lovejoy more than they probably would have. The goaltending was arguably the most determing factor.

 

[CupInSIX]

How much did they pay for that tandem? Lehner with just 28% of his salary is great to have.

They paid as much as they could fit under the cap, then flipped/exposed MAF to Vegas with a 2nd (as you well know) because they didn't want to pay 8-9m for 2 goalies. Big mistake.

 

[willy702]

They paid as much as they could fit under the cap, then flipped/exposed MAF to Vegas with a 2nd (as you well know) because they didn't want to pay 8-9m for 2 goalies. Big mistake.

Why was it a big mistake? They were and still are pretty tight up to the cap with only $4.4m in goalie cap hit. They decided to spend the money elsewhere. They still seem to be a contender even without MAF.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Why was it a big mistake? They were and still are pretty tight up to the cap with only $4.4m in goalie cap hit. They decided to spend the money elsewhere. They still seem to be a contender even without MAF.

They won a Cup with 12.5M spent on goalies and a defenseman who didn't play and haven't won with 4.4M spent on goalies and being up to the cap with said defenseman playing. It isn't some simple thing you're making it.

 

[willy702]

They won a Cup with 12.5M spent on goalies and a defenseman who didn't play and haven't won with 4.4M spent on goalies and being up to the cap with said defenseman playing. It isn't some simple thing you're making it.

Enough, not worth debating you guys. Everything for you guys is black and white, all analysis is done in the rear view mirror. No consideration for how predictable things were before they happened and zero critical thinking skills in general. I'd love to get all the best players on the team and go dominate the league too as most of you seem to want, but that's not how the NHL works today. If you want to call me wrong about that fine, go ahead, you guys win.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Enough, not worth debating you guys. Everything for you guys is black and white, all analysis is done in the rear view mirror. No consideration for how predictable things were before they happened and zero critical thinking skills in general. I'd love to get all the best players on the team and go dominate the league too as most of you seem to want, but that's not how the NHL works today. If you want to call me wrong about that fine, go ahead, you guys win.

You're claiming arguments that haven't been posited in order to dismiss the arguments you've been given.

Who is going to be better to spend that 5-6M on if Fleury keeps throwing up these .908 performances and we have a million dollar backup? He's shown signs already and I don't trust him to be a top ten goalie even next season let alone the season his contract is up.

We have a top six that would be secure, we have bottom line forwards who play well. We have a top four defense signed through next season and rookies who need to get NHL time. We have this luxury right now.

 

[theslatcher]

Door sounds pretty shut for him returning to Chicago.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Door sounds pretty shut for him returning to Chicago.

I do wonder if Vegas makes him feel welcome and at least 1B next season, 1A after that and are willing to give him a five year deal if they could get him for 5M. That would help toward keeping him if it's 5 instead of 6.

 

[theslatcher]

I do wonder if Vegas makes him feel welcome and at least 1B next season, 1A after that and are willing to give him a five year deal if they could get him for 5M. That would help toward keeping him if it's 5 instead of 6.

Sounds like he'd be good for 3 years even, but 5 years would make him happy and probably consider dropping the AAV.

 

[SI90]

I pray someone locks this guy up and gives him security. He deserves it.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Sounds like he'd be good for 3 years even, but 5 years would make him happy and probably consider dropping the AAV.

I think we should make it fit if he performs well here.

 

[IceNeophyte]

Sounds like he'd be good for 3 years even, but 5 years would make him happy and probably consider dropping the AAV.

Many of his comments seem to have a subtext that he isn't thrilled with living in Las Vegas.....I hope he quickly learns what the Golden Misfits did, that living here isn't the same as going on a bender at Bellagio.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Fleury seemed sharper, could be nothing or possibly the competition.

 

[pbgoalie]

We could argue this forever but lots of analytics and simple math prove that goalies are extremely overrated on a predictive basis. Goalie importance is easy to point to after the fact, but the hard part is figuring the value of goalies and paying for that in advance.

In advance if you choose between MAF and Subban in a playoff series, MAF predictively saves one, maybe two, more shots over a series. That's just math. Except for rare cases of bad sequencing, this rarely would change the ultimate result. Of course anything can happen and the way perception works is fans and team management believe a goalie won a series for them and then overpayment begins. Meanwhile few stop to think maybe another goalie could have done the same or a little less and the team still wins a series.

Mathematically goalies get overrated and strategic thinking can prove it. However GMs and fan bases never figure this out.

As a long time Ducks fan
I witnessed Guguere steak series
And Freddy pretty much lose series

Analytics don’t rwally adjust for demoralization from bad goals

 

[theslatcher]

Fleury seemed sharper, could be nothing or possibly the competition.

He has played well during our winning streak, .942 sv% with only bad game vs Tampa(but it's Tampa yknow).

Subban had a .815 sv% but we still managed to win those 2 games he played

 

[IceNeophyte]

With the Nick's loss today, Vegas is now indisputably in 1st place in the Pacific. Even if VAN were given 4 points for their two games in hand, VGK is ahead by regulation wins.