Confirmed with Link: Leddy + Witkowski for Sundqvist + Walman + 2nd 2023

[EastVillageBlues]

I don't understand the hate for this move. Particularly at 50% retention. Leddy has been a consistent top 4 defenseman for the better part of a decade and just turned 31 yesterday. We've lacked consistency on the back end the entire season, which he should instantly provide and help stabilize. He's decisive with the puck in his own end and is quick in transition, something that has been a problem for us of late.


The only thing that is somewhat questionable was the second rounder. Which I'm sure Army pushed for a 3rd. But given that it's not until 2023, it gives us plenty of time to recoup it through other avenues.
Sunny ran into Fabbriesque luck with a severe knee injury that he's still recovering from, while Walman likely won't amount to much more than a depth defenseman.

This isn't the move we had hoped for, but I have a hard time buying that we're worse off because of it.

I think a lot of people here hate it because of Leddy's play this year, especially in his own zone.

I agree with you that he had been a decent top 4 option for the Isles (at for the Hawks during a short period prior to that), as primarily a PMD for a long time. And he did have the defensive awareness to be at least not a liability, and at times was a positive force in his own zone. We don't know whether the Wings' version , or the Isles' version of Leddy we are getting.

If the former, I think this will be a pretty bad trade, but we didn't really break the bank to do it, just a few secondary assets to make an attempt at rounding out the top-4. If the latter, I think we will have solidified our D-corps for the run this year, and paid relatively little to do it.

 

[Majorityof1]

What upside does Walman have? Walman players are a dime a dozen.

I'm fine with people that argue that Leddy doesn't fix our problems. That player wasn't available today and wasn't available at the deadline except for Lindholm. Leddy at least should fix transition problems that we had on the Parayko or 3rd pair.

Leddy cannot be out there with PArayko, so how does he fix that problem.? He is awful defensively, so how can we have him on our shutdown pair? He is worse than Krug at pure defense. Its just another player we need to shelter. We are back to Scandella/Mikkola getting 75% d-zone starts to shelter two Puck movers who forget that the third letter in PMD stands for DEFENSEman.

 

[BlueKnight]

I absolutely hate this trade. Fire Armstrong!!!!

 

[ScratchCatFever]

I hate this. I'd rather have Walman than Leddy and would much rather have Sundqvist with 2 bum hips than Witkowski. We just paid a 2nd to get worse at 2 positions. Bravo.

I'm not as worried about the 2nd. I don't love it, but not being until 2023 we have time to recoup it.

 

[ScratchCatFever]

I absolutely hate this trade. Fire Armstrong!!!!

Come on, guy. Exercise some common sense. Good grief

 

[Majorityof1]

I'm not reading much into advanced metrics based on one season with a youthful, rebuilding franchise. But that's just me. Let's see how he meshes with our guys before calling him trash..

Its not just with the Wings. He has been bad with his advance stats for the past 6-7 years. Even when the Islanders were a playoff team, he was sub 50% Corsi and xgF%,

 

[bleedblue1223]

Leddy cannot be out there with PArayko, so how does he fix that problem.? He is awful defensively, so how can we have him on our shutdown pair? He is worse than Krug at pure defense. Its just another player we need to shelter. We are back to Scandella/Mikkola getting 75% d-zone starts to shelter two Puck movers who forget that the third letter in PMD stands for DEFENSEman.

Wherever he plays, that pairing will be able to transition the puck better, and right now, we have 2 pairings that struggle at transitioning the puck. Is he perfect, no. Is this move on par with Leopold, yes. Is this an improvement, yes.

 

[Blueston]

I’d feel better about the trade if we didn’t include the 2nd.

No sh!t. Every trade looks better when you don't give up anything of any value.

 

[SuperScript29]

I think a lot of people here hate it because of Leddy's play this year, especially in his own zone.

I agree with you that he had been a decent top 4 option for the Isles (at for the Hawks during a short period prior to that), as primarily a PMD for a long time. And he did have the defensive awareness to be at least not a liability, and at times was a positive force in his own zone. We don't know whether the Wings' version , or the Isles' version of Leddy we are getting.

If the former, I think this will be a pretty bad trade, but we didn't really break the bank to do it, just a few secondary assets to make an attempt at rounding out the top-4. If the latter, I think we will have solidified our D-corps for the run this year, and paid relatively little to do it.

Leddy on the Isles wasn't a whole lot better either, so unless he's netting you 40+ points to negate some of that defensive pain, he's actually pretty bad to have.

 

[bradrich99]

it also opens up Sunny's $2.75 for next season.

 

[Majorityof1]

Even saying Leddy is somehow an upgrade. We definitely downgraded our offensive depth. Sundqvist might not be his normal self, but he a still a solid 4th liner who is not lost as the first man up in the top 9. He is a 30 point pace playing 11 minutes of 5v5, and no PP, while also being the 2nd most PK time per game of any Forward. That is valuable. Even if I conceed Leddy helps somehow, it is still a question mark as to whether we got better overall. How can you make a trade where you pay futures to have a question mark if it helps you overall?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

If we wanted to get better at transition you could have done it by putting Krug with Colt and Scandella or Mikkola with Faulk. Or get a defensive RHD like Manson or Mayfield to put with Krug and put Faulk on his off-side with Colt.

 

[i aint Dunn yet]

oh my word ... my only hope is witkoswi .... just brutal

should i spell it right first ?

 

[Majorityof1]

Wherever he plays, that pairing will be able to transition the puck better, and right now, we have 2 pairings that struggle at transitioning the puck. Is he perfect, no. Is this move on par with Leopold, yes. Is this an improvement, yes.

The pair might be better at transitioning the puck, but not better at playing Defense. The other tem will score a lot more before we get the puck to transition. But as I said above. Even if I conceed slight improvement to our D, we lost a valuable depth forward to do it. Its a question mark what the net effect is, and we paid a 2nd for that question mark.

 

[Xerloris]

I absolutely hate this trade. Fire Armstrong!!!!

Christ man would you stop with the asinine shit about firing Armstrong?

Sunny had a knee and 2 hip surgeries in one offseason. He's not been doing well and he has to be sat because of how poorly he's recovering.
Walman sucked so thank god he's gone.

Leddy is a UFA so assuming we don't resign him all Army did was free up cap space for next year and if we can move Scandella we're in tip top shape.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Even saying Leddy is somehow an upgrade. We definitely downgraded our offensive depth. Sundqvist might not be his normal self, but he a still a solid 4th liner who is not lost as the first man up in the top 9. He is a 30 point pace playing 11 minutes of 5v5, and no PP, while also being the 2nd most PK time per game of any Forward. That is valuable. Even if I conceed Leddy helps somehow, it is still a question mark as to whether we got better overall. How can you make a trade where you pay futures to have a question mark if it helps you overall?

Agreed. I hate our 4th line forward depth. Bozak has injury issues and has declined, and while Toropchenko has looked good, he's inexperienced, so can he keep it up? Then there's a revolving door with Mac, Kostin, Joshua, and then maybe guys like Brown or Neal.

 

[GoldenSeal]

All Leddy has to do is play solid meat and potatoes D. If he can do that and shelter, we just upgraded. See how this goes.

 

[fallingquarters]

Christ man would you stop with the asinine shit about firing Armstrong?

Sunny had a knee and 2 hip surgeries in one offseason. He's not been doing well and he has to be sat because of how poorly he's recovering.
Walman sucked so thank god he's gone.

Leddy is a UFA so assuming we don't resign him all Army did was free up cap space for next year and if we can move Scandella we're in tip top shape.

I feel like this last line is the heart of the deal right here. Unless there's an extension (which would be a crazy move), I think the idea is to clear a bit of cap, get a replacement-level player for the left side, and see what happens in the off-season. This ain't the year.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The pair might be better at transitioning the puck, but not better at playing Defense. The other tem will score a lot more before we get the puck to transition. But as I said above. Even if I conceed slight improvement to our D, we lost a valuable depth forward to do it. Its a question mark what the net effect is, and we paid a 2nd for that question mark.

Don't really disagree here either, and I don't have the stats to back this up, just observations, but we give up a lot of chances when our d can get the puck, but then can't clear or transition it. The forwards are also at fault here, Kyrou had a bad play in the last game where the puck was getting moved to him, but he was flat footed and turned it over.

To me, Leddy should be a 3rd pairing partner for someone like Bortozzo. Lighter minutes, but that pairing becomes much more effective in their role. It's why I didn't want to bother with Leddy because it's really dependent on Mikkola playing like he did at an earlier stretch where he and Parayko were playing JBo/Parayko lite. I like Mikkola, probably more than most here, but I'm not sold on that in the playoffs.

My main pushback with you is what I interpreted as hyperbolic comments about Leddy and Walman. I don't think those are necessary to criticize and call the deal bad. I'd probably mostly agree it's a bad or at best meh deal. I don't really care about the 2nd either. I'm glad we moved some cap for next season, but I'm hoping we don't pull a Scandella and extend Leddy thinking he's the solution because he's not, he's a band-aid that might help.

 

[Majorityof1]

All Leddy has to do is play solid meat and potatoes D. If he can do that and shelter, we just upgraded. See how this goes.

He cannot do that. That is not his game at all. If that is what we wanted, we were better off sticking with Scandella and Mikkola.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Leddy on the Isles wasn't a whole lot better either, so unless he's netting you 40+ points to negate some of that defensive pain, he's actually pretty bad to have.

That definitely false, and revisionist history, unless you are the type that lives and dies by corsi.

There are plenty of times a few years ago where his pairing was the go to one in critical situations for the Isles, including much of his time there when paired with Boychuk. And the Islanders certainly missed him once he was moved as a cap casualty. You can find plenty of analyses in which he was one of the reasons for their anemic season this year:

Islanders Blue Line Still Feeling Loss of Nick Leddy without Adequate Replacement

The New York Islanders have got their feet back under them after a rough 0-2-0 start to the year, but they’re still feeling the loss of defenseman Nick Leddy, who was dealt over the summer to create cap space. It has been evident a few times through the young season, no more so than during […]

nyihockeynow.com

Revisiting Islanders' Nick Leddy to Detroit Trade

Revisiting the New York Islanders' decision to trade Nick Leddy to the Detroit Red Wings during the 2021 offseason.

thehockeywriters.com

Islanders Fans Will Always Remember Nick Leddy - Drive4Five

New York Islanders fans will always remember defenseman Nick Leddy for ushering in a winning culture and transforming the team around him.

drive4five.blog

Goodbye, Goodbye, Goodbye: Saying farewell to Leddy, Eberle and Ladd

Three different players of intersecting eras came and went in different but memorable ways.

www.lighthousehockey.com

and many more.

 

[Mike Liut]

No sh!t. Every trade looks better when you don't give up anything of any value.

I wouldn’t call Sunny and Wallman no value. Leddy hasn’t actually been a world beater this year.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I also don't like how we have another smallish dman. It's not that size is everything, but it's also not nothing.

I don't some of my posts defending parts of the deal or parts of Leddy to mean I support it. I'm mostly just meh on it.

 

[LGB]

To me, Leddy should be a 3rd pairing partner for someone like Bortozzo. Lighter minutes, but that pairing becomes much more effective in their role. It's why I didn't want to bother with Leddy because it's really dependent on Mikkola playing like he did at an earlier stretch where he and Parayko were playing JBo/Parayko lite. I like Mikkola, probably more than most here, but I'm not sold on that in the playoffs.

Him on the third pairing and Mikkola back with Parayko is definitely a possibility as well. I didn't really understand why Scandella was back with Parayko, maybe that was just to try and preserve his value to see if we could get rid of him at the deadline. Just trying to tread water with ROR and Parayko matching up against the other teams top players and trying to beat teams with our depth could be an effective strategy.

 

[TK 421]

I'm pissed about giving up the 2nd. If Stevie Y insisted on the 2nd Doug should have told him to take the 3rd or kick rocks. And please don't tell me, "You know... 2nd round picks only produ-..", seriously just shut up with that. I don't want to hear your odds, I just want the 2nd back for the 2023 draft.